Shinji Kagawa

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He seemed to run out of steam today after 50 mins, probably due to Japan duty. Was very tidy in the first half, most dangerous of the front 4 anyway.

When he did Bramble I thought he could taken the ball further and made a better opening for the shot, but it'll come. He's so good on the turn it's ridiculous.
 
He finally played more of what I would like him to play, i.e. the link between the midfield and attacking third. First 45 minutes were the best he's played for us imo. He was running with purpose, looking for the options available. Found freedom around him when he needed it as well.
 
Tomuś said:
He finally played more of what I would like him to play, i.e. the link between the midfield and attacking third. First 45 minutes were the best he's played for us imo. He was running with purpose, looking for the options available. Found freedom around him when he needed it as well.
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Agreed. Linked up very well 1st half, the ball stuck to his foot every time he received it. 2nd half not so great but I think we can put that down to the team playing on the counter and Sunderland getting tighter to us. But overall a good performance I felt.
 
Way too lightweight.

Hopefully with Zaha on the way Shinji will just be used for Far East marketing going forward.
 
rocks13 said:
Wow.

4 moronic :lol: replies.

Probably the kind of posters who slate Ashley Young and Valencia.
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you are either trolling hard or clueless. I dislike the Valencia and Young slating, but your post on Kagawa was ridiculous
 
His first touch is just fantastic, sort of like Van Persie's, in that he always does a clever touch to gain half a yard on the opponent instantly. Most players when receiving the ball they just do a normal touch and then worry about the rest, but Kagawa, like Van Persie, always think a few steps ahead. Very clever player.
 
Very good first half, continually used the space Sunderland gave him between the defence and midfield and kept the ball well. Some really nice little touches and such to play people through. Had a much quieter second half and did fade before coming off.
 
I had to listen to the 2nd half on the radio last yesterday. When he went off the commentator said "Started brightly but been a passenger in the 2nd half." Story of his season really.
 
Carl said:
"Started brightly but been a passenger in the 2nd half." Story of his season really.
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No offense, but I think this is bullshit.

Kagawa has only "faded away" in the second half whenever the rest of the team has faded away in the second half. I can't recall a single game where we've dominated and/or played well where Kagawa hasn't been good. Just look at the Norwich game. Kagawa didn't just score a hattrick. He was instrumental in the attacking game, alongside Rooney and Carrick. The reason for this is because we didn't try to defend our lead(partly because Norwich were too shit to threaten us).

Kagawa is a teamplayer in every sense of the word. He will become anonymous when the team as a whole is playing like shit. He's still useful in these games though, because he has the ability to make that defense-splitting pass on the counter, as well as actually keeping the ball under pressure, which is essential when the other team is trying to push us back.

4 fun facts about Kagawa this season:

1. He has only started in his favorite positon 50% of the time.
2. He has the second highest passing accuracy(behind Scholes).
3. He has the highest average of succesful through-balls per game(together with Rooney).
4. He scores a goal or makes an assist about every other game he starts.

Pretty impressive for a young player in his first season in the PL, who's not only struggled with injuries but also travelled across the globe several times. Oh and then there's the fact that we still haven't seen the best of him in terms of effectivity. Just imagine how good he'll be when he starts to get a goal/assist in every game he starts, while also keeping his ball control.
 
No one sensible is saying he isn't a promising player but all I really see in the top half of your post is excuses. His debut season hasn't been as good as we all hoped. Fact.

He's got that much ability though it's almost guaranteed he'll improve next season.
 
He's been injured and dumped on the wing a lot this season, I don't really know what people expect.
 
Carl said:
His debut season hasn't been as good as we all hoped. Fact.
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Well when you use the word "hope", then I can't say that I disagree with you. I also hoped that Cleverley would have 20 assists(+) by the end of the season. But was that really what I expected to happen? No.

Realistically, Kagawa is right where we should expect him to be, considering his age and the fact that he has to adjust to the PL. But since he's been played out of position half the time and struggled with injuries, I'd say he has performed better than expected. This comes from the self-proclaimed "biggest Kagawa fan in the world", so you know that I have high expectations. While I was still in the newbies I wrote that Kagawa is going to be our best and most influential player within 2-3 years, unless Barca snaps him up. I still stand behind that "prophecy".
 
I think this being a bedding in season has been reasonably successful, but knowing the potential he does have I would expect more from him next season. Hopefully like mata he can step it up and find that extra 10%.
 
Mad Winger said:
Well when you use the word "hope", then I can't say that I disagree with you. I also hoped that Cleverley would have 20 assists(+) by the end of the season. But was that really what I expected to happen? No.

Realistically, Kagawa is right where we should expect him to be, considering his age and the fact that he has to adjust to the PL. But since he's been played out of position half the time and struggled with injuries, I'd say he has performed better than expected. This comes from the self-proclaimed "biggest Kagawa fan in the world", so you know that I have high expectations. While I was still in the newbies I wrote that Kagawa is going to be our best and most influential player within 2-3 years, unless Barca snaps him up. I still stand behind that "prophecy".
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:lol:

We signed one of the best players in the Bundesliga and thus far Kagawa hasn't lived up to his billing. There's just no getting away from that no matter how much you try and twist things. Of course injuries and physicality of the league has played it's part and I think/hope he'll have a bigger impact next season.
 
akash02 said:
:lol:

We signed one of the best players in the Bundesliga and thus far Kagawa hasn't lived up to his billing. There's just no getting away from that no matter how much you try and twist things. Of course injuries and physicality of the league has played it's part and I think/hope he'll have a bigger impact next season.
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There's still a suspicion that Fergie originally planned to play Kagawa behind Rooney every week, and then got wind of VP being available...

massively changing the plan.
 
It's funny reading in every single player thread that so and so 'fades in the second half' like it's some sort of isolated incident particular to just a few players. Pretty much every player outside the defence barring Carrick does this hence the way our football deteriorates in the second halves of matches. We keep putting it down to fitness, players adapting, etc, but it's just a strangely widespread problem that affects the whole team.
 
KingEric7 said:
It's funny reading in every single player thread that so and so 'fades in the second half' like it's some sort of isolated incident particular to just a few players. Pretty much every player outside the defence barring Carrick does this hence the way our football deteriorates in the second halves of matches. We keep putting it down to fitness, players adapting, etc, but it's just a strangely widespread problem that affects the whole team.
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That's bollocks, Kagawa is clearly overweight.
 
Sandikan said:
There's still a suspicion that Fergie originally planned to play Kagawa behind Rooney every week, and then got wind of VP being available...

massively changing the plan.
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Very likely. Everyone on here expected him to play in the hole behind Rooney... and then we signed RvP.
 
akash02 said:
We signed one of the best players in the Bundesliga and thus far Kagawa hasn't lived up to his billing. There's just no getting away from that no matter how much you try and twist things.
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Yes, because when you sign a Bundesliga star it automatically means that he's gonna glide smoothly into a different team in a different league and continue to perform at the exact same level:rolleyes:

The injury and the signing of RVP has definitely played it's part as well. Kagawa, while decent in that position, is not a winger. He's a pure AM. Period.

If you really don't think that Kagawa has done well despite getting into a new team, in a new league, playing out of position half the time, and getting an annoying injury, then you have delusionally high expectations. Also, we can't ignore the fact that he's pretty much our best passer in terms of accuracy and through balls, and that he has a decent amount of goals and assists. And now I haven't even mentioned his general talent..
 
We chased Van Persie for months.

I don't see the problem with Kagawa occasionally playing on the left. He's played well there - as well as he's played in the centre. He plays there for Japan and plenty of similar players play from wide positions.

United never build a team around a no.10. Versatility is demanded from United players.
 
getting the best of Kagawa with VP and Rooney in the picture will be quite a tough mission I think.
 
Rowem said:
We chased Van Persie for months.
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Fergie said that he never expected Arsenal to actually sell him to us, so it came pretty much out of nowhere after we signed Kagawa.

Kagawa was definitely headed for the number 10 role, with Rooney as the main striker.
 
Rowem said:
We chased Van Persie for months.

I don't see the problem with Kagawa occasionally playing on the left. He's played well there - as well as he's played in the centre. He plays there for Japan and plenty of similar players play from wide positions.

United never build a team around a no.10. Versatility is demanded from United players.
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Playing on the left of a front three in a 4-2-3-1 formation is totally different to playing as a wide man in one of Fergie's sides. Totally different roles and positional disciplines.
 
He has a knack of creating space with his first touch, and then lay off pretty little passes. Not really been influential as hoped except maybe one game. He might do a Silva and come to life in his second season. Talent is obviously there in abundance.
 
He's only just a few months older than Cleverley and playing in a completely new league. Expect him to get better, a lot more influential next season.
 
Having watched him quite a-bit last season, I have to say that I was extremely excited when he signed for us; but I have been very disappointed so far. I expected him to have far more goals and assists by now. He has the ability to unlock defences, but for some reason, we have rarely seen that from him in a United shirt.

I really hope he pushes on next season, a massive improvement is needed. It's more frustrating because he wasn't some one-season-wonder at Dortmund, he is a genuinely quality player, just needs to step it up.
 
In all seriousness: are his stats really that bad?!

Premier League: 12 starts, 5 goals, 2 assists.
Champions Leauge: 3 starts, 2 assists.

This gives him a goal/assist ratio of 0.6. That's pretty reasonable for an offensive playmaker who's being played out of position half the time.


These are his Dortmund stats for the 11/12 season:

Bundesliga: 29 starts, 13 goals, 12 assists.
Champions league: 4 starts, 1 goal, 0 assists.

This gives him a goal/assist ratio of 0.79. It's better yes, but keep in mind that this is from a slightly inferior league in a team that fits him perfectly well, when playing in his favorite position pretty much 100% of the time! It's not unreasonable to assume that Kagawa's stats would have been better for United as well if he could keep playing in his favorite position. In which case, it's not really Kagawa himself that has been disappointing, but the lineups.
 
So did he score or assist in all of those starts or are some of them sub appearances? It's all well and good mentioning starts only but then you have to only include his goals and assists from games he has started, otherwise it's misleading.
 
shaggy said:
So did he score or assist in all of those starts or are some of them sub appearances? It's all well and good mentioning starts only but then you have to only include his goals and assists from games he has started, otherwise it's misleading.
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None of these are sub appearances. He's only been subbed on twice, usually at the very end of the game where he hasn't been able to produce any goals or assists(as far as I can remember at least). That's why I didn't include his sub appearances. Kagawa has 17 games for United in PL and CL. 15 of them are starts, and he's been subbed off 13 times.

As you can see, Kagawa hasn't exactly got a lot of minutes to perform his magic on. He gets a goal/assist every 120 minutes, which is pretty good for an offensive playmaker out of position half the time. Welbeck, another attacking player who plays a lot out of position, only gets a goal/assist every 255 minutes.

EDIT:
Kagawa in Dortmund(both seasons) = a goal/assist every 118 minutes.
Kagawa in United = a goal/assist ever 120 minutes.

In terms of effectivity, Kagawa is pretty much just on the same level now as he was in the Dortmund days! This was a surpising discovery, even for me!:eek:
 
Rowem said:
We chased Van Persie for months.
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Chasing a pipedream should never deter us from getting the right players in. The expectation/excitement was because we clearly needed a player like him. As it turns out, we ended up with both him and RvP, a good problem to have in my book.

FlawlessThaw said:
He's only just a few months older than Cleverley
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Good point!
 
Mad Winger said:
None of these are sub appearances. He's only been subbed on twice, usually at the very end of the game where he hasn't been able to produce any goals or assists(as far as I can remember at least). That's why I didn't include his sub appearances. Kagawa has 17 games for United in PL and CL. 15 of them are starts, and he's been subbed off 13 times.

As you can see, Kagawa hasn't exactly got a lot of minutes to perform his magic on. He gets a goal/assist every 120 minutes, which is pretty good for an offensive playmaker out of position half the time. Welbeck, another attacking player who plays a lot out of position, only gets a goal/assist every 255 minutes.

EDIT:
Kagawa in Dortmund(both seasons) = a goal/assist every 118 minutes.
Kagawa in United = a goal/assist ever 120 minutes.

In terms of effectivity, Kagawa is pretty much just on the same level now as he was in the Dortmund days! This was a surpising discovery, even for me!:eek:
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Kagawa´s first season at United is not as bad as some make it out to be, but it was not good either. I would summarize it as decent.

This is not that suprising, if we take all circumstances into account.

However, I can understand why some people are dissapointed. They had big expectations for him, because they saw his games for Dortmund in 2012.

I would assume, that most on here began following Kagawa closely when rumors popped up, that he could possibly join United. That was around February 2012 IIRC. At that time Kagawa hit his absolute top form and performed extremely well in the well tuned machine of Dortmund. How many did really watch him before that, though?

The truth is, that Kagawa´s time at Dortmund had a lot of light, but also several shadows. This also influenced his overall statistic with Dortmund.

He hit it off really well in his first half season in 2010/2011, but suffered a major injury (complicated fracture of his right leg) in a International with Japan in January 2012, which made him miss the complete rest of the season.

He fully returned at the beginning of the season 2011/2012, but did not look the same as the season before. Aside of one or two games, his first half of the season was really, really poor. He was in good company back then, because the majority of the midfield was either injured or out of form. For ten to twelve games Dortmund transformed into somewhat of a one man team and was offensively carried to a huge extend by the 19 year old Mario Götze, who was at that time the best performing player of the league.
 
Mad Winger said:
Fergie said that he never expected Arsenal to actually sell him to us, so it came pretty much out of nowhere after we signed Kagawa.

Kagawa was definitely headed for the number 10 role, with Rooney as the main striker.
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Thank God we signed Van Persie then.
 
To Sphaero:

The majority didn't even watch Kagawa for Dortmund in 2012, except for the German Cup final. The way I see it, there are two kinds of Kagawa critics: 1) the ones who have barely seen him play and therefore are ignorant of his greatness and 2) the ones who have seen the very best of him(usually at the end of his Dortmund years) and therefore expect to see him completely dominate.

I think people are way too harsh on Kagawa. Even the critics seem to acknowledge his talents, so I just don't see why they can't acknowledge his stats as well? After all, he's about just as effective as he was for Dortmund. Not only that, but he's the second best passer(after Scholes) and the best at making through-balls. I just don't see what more he can possibly do in a new league. Kagawa's had a decent season at the very worst in my opinon. Taking the circumstances into account, I think he's been very good.
 
People are just judging him based on his short United career. To be fair, stats don't always tell the full story. He has been underwhelming, which is understandable with a new country, league, and adjusting to a new system. It takes time. I don't see anyone saying he's a bad signing.
 
OK, so what exactly do people want him to improve?

- His goals/assist ratio? Well, that's already on par with his Dortmund years, and people have already acknowledged his performances for them.

- His passing? Well, he's our most accurate passer after Scholes..

- You want to see more of those famous through-balls of his? Well, he's already our best player in this aspect with 0.3 successful through-balls per game.

- His stamina isn't good enough? Well, he's got the best beep-test scores since Beckham.

While I agree that he was a more dominant figure at Dortmund and therefore slightly better in his overall game, there is no way you can say that Kagawa have been "bad" or even "mediocre". He's struggling to become a dominant figure for reasons that has nothing to do with him as a player.

1. He's not playing enough in his favorite position.
2. He's been injured.
3. There are more profiles in United, and therefore harder to stand out.

Fergie's lineups, bad luck, and harder competition is what's stopping Kagawa from shining as much as he did in Dortmund. Not incompetence.
 
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