Didn't that ball go out for a goal kick ?
Shinji Kagawa
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Didn't that ball go out for a goal kick ?
Started too wide but I thought got involved well when he came inside and worked hard.
What do you mean? He drifted inwards. That's not the same as playing in his supposed position. If anything, I think you're being a bit harsh but that's okay.
He has rarely played in his preferred position which is why I find your view a bit strange. I judge him on how I think he plays in games too. That's what I do for most of our players. Doesn't mean we'll come to the same conclusions. I just think it's helpful to consider each other's opinions even if we don't agree. I dont want to be hostile.
Not the one he's talking about. He's talking about the one with the outside of his boot. A brilliant pass.
Also the one you are talking about was very clever. Shame he didnt get the exact weight on it.
On his overall game today: I thought he did well. Was very good in possession most of the time, loved his clever little movements on the ball.
Still it's just not his position imo. It's hard though when the one playing on your position is Wayne Rooney. He will get used to playing on the left though I'm sure. He got everything he needs.
He keeps the ball well, is always trying to create, but so far he's been a bit underwhelming for us. The reasons have been done to death but with a good bit of rest during the summer and a title under his belt I reckon he'll kick on next season.
He's fine playing on the left he hasn't shown anything warranting him taking that central position. If he starts playing consistently excellent football he will get his chance.
Nah Evra tried to play it across and the ball was blocked.
When I said his supposed best position I meant throughout the season not today. You're not being hostile, just backing your view. I just find it strange that people get so excited by a performance that if Young or Valencia had put in would be being criticised. He wasn't better than Valencia today yet he is again being slated in his thread.
He was better than Valencia. In fact, the difference between them creatively and on the ball was worlds apart. Stupid comparison from anybody who's actually watched the game today IMO.
Valencia had a positive impact in creating a goal for us. They played at about the same level. Both gave the ball away at times, both kept it relatively simple and neither created enough. What more Kagawa create today?
You're very objective when it comes to Kagawa.
Yes but you're assuming that people see Kagawa's performance through your lens which is: similar performance to Young and Valencia. If those who think what you're contesting aren't starting with that baseline assumption, then it's quite clear why there's some discrepancy between what you and others think about Kagawa's performance.
For me, I thought his performance was encouraging but nothing really spectacular. Because I have been following from his dortmund days, there were little aspects to his game that I was looking for an improvement in. He showed some of that today which is why I'm probably pleased with his performance more than most.
This is what i mean. I can see from a macroscopic type of perspective how one can see Kagawa's performance and say 'meh'. But for someone like me who likes to pay attention to what most presume as insignificant details, I thought he did pretty well. There's certainly more to come from him too. I guess at the end of the day, I would like other United fans to be just as excited about Kagawa as I am. But, that's basically impossible especially if you didn't watch him before he came here.
Funny, here I was thinking the exact same thing about you...
Dammit, I really shouldn't be on the caf today but you all are bringing up some good points. I can't resist.
I have no vested interest in wanting one player to do better than another. They're all Manchester United players to me. You do. That's why you spend the bulk of your time talking about him.
Most of that harks back to what I initially said about pre conceived notions of the player. Those who were very excited about his signing are more desperate to see positives that they wouldn't see in another. I probably do the same with Valencia because I've been a fan of him as a player. Other players aren't being judged on these intangibles you're talking about. That was the main point I was making. Kagawa was fine today. I just don't understand the contrast in how othe players would be judged on something similar. Especially when that player hasn't got a history of being a very good player for us.
What you say is mostly true but I think there's a massive difference in how the two go about it. Valencia generally slows us down with his constant fumbling of the ball and spinning in circles trying to make it so he can pass it with his right foot, he also mostly makes backwards passes and doesn't really seem to want to get on the ball. I don't think he actually had a single cross all game. Kagawa on the other hand is constantly making himself available and is much more likely to make a quick pass and keep our attack moving along.
Kagawa wasn't amazing by any means today, but the way he goes about the game is much different than Valencia and certainly is more positive to our attacking play. This is all while he is playing out of position as well, I think when he plays centrally we'll see him link up even better.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
I wont deny that I have an extra soft spot for Kagawa, but I'm in no way a blind fanboy who can't see it when he's playing crap. I'd say it's the opposite, in fact! Since I know how good Kagawa really is and how much potential he has, I always keep an extra close eye on him and therefore notice his strengths as well as his weaknesses. I don't want Kagawa to do better than other United players. I want him to play up to his potential because that is what our team needs. There's the difference. Also, Kagawa is a unique player in our team. We don't have anyone quite like him. That's why I'm so excited. When he hits form, he's going to unlock a whole different register to our football. Just imagine the possibilities we get if he can lead our attacks like he did for Dortmund. The thought alone is enough to make me smile.
You should get a reality check, man. You are posting in one of the most pessimistic forums there is, where complaining is the norm, yet the majority seems to like Kagawa a hell of a lot more than you. You are much more of a minority than I am here.
He was clearly better than Valencia today(hardly a achievement these days), but wasn't anything great himself either. Somewhere between decent to good.
Think acunumber has a point about Preconceived notions somewhat though.
Think acunumber has a point about Preconceived notions somewhat though.
How you can think that Valencia played anywhere near as well as Kagawa today, or indeed that they played in any sort of similar way, is beyond me.
I'd settle for "good". Kagawa was better than Valencia, Hernandez, RVP and Welbeck, and on par with Carrick. Only Rooney was clearly better in the midfield/attacking area.
Kagawa deserves a 7 out of 10 at least, with Rooney getting 8 and MOTM.
What do I need a reality check for? I never claimed to be in a majority. I have my opinion others have theirs. I hope the rest are righ in this case and Kagawa becomes an excellent player for us. He hasn't been yet and not anywhere close to it.
Enlighten me to what he did. Valencia and Young are criticised for not creating. Young especially is criticised for cutting back and passing. What did Kagawa do different today?
Who called him excellent in the game today though? he obviously still has a lot to do, but you had to come along and compare his performance to Valencia's. Which was retarded.
Talking about retarded, where did you read me saying people said he was excellent today?
It's just that you're bringing up the fact that he hasn't been excellent this season, when most people are in agreement with that opinion anyway. He did well today, and was certainly better than Valencia.
No, I'm pointing out the contrast in how players are rated for a performance based on who they are.
My point is just this, what seems more likely: A) that me and the majority are blind fools who overestimate Kagawa's skills or B) that you are a wee bit harsh and pessimistic? Remember, this website is not exaclty known for hyping up its own players. Players on other teams, yes. But our own? Never... Just look at the other player threads.
You don't think the praise comes from somewhere? You think it's all just hopes, dreams and desperations?
In what real world does Rooney deserve 8 for that performance?
I'm one of the biggest Kagawa's fanbois on here but he didn't set the rold alight today. Expected better.
I don't see the huge difference between Kagawas and Valencias respective contributions today. Both were ok to good, in thier own way, but neither was far better or worse than the other.
Valencia has been here three seasons, won multiple awards for his efforts last season and is our number 7. If anything, Valencia currently has the better reputation among United fans right now.
Yeah, the praise is coming from pre conceived ideas. Like I've said from the very start. People's expectations come from what they saw previously and expected when he signed. Not what's actually happened on the pitch. So far he's been average. Hopefully he fulfills people's hopes and dreams. I have my doubts. I was optimistic about his pre season bu so far he's underwhelmed and I'm not sure he's the right player for this team.
acnumber9;13289948[B said:
Perhaps so. I'm glad you said this. I see where you're coming from now. respect.
Your last sentence is very good. I guess maybe the aesthetics of a player makes a difference. Not sure if that makes sense.
And rightly so. It's gone the other way now though because he's had such a poor season people are once again caught in their ideas that he's going to be crap before the game has even started. Not one person has been able to tell me why Kagawa was so much better than him today.
I did a little further up, you never responded though. Post 5378.
gza the genius that's a very good post mate.
It was based on what you think he's capable of rather than what actually happened though. Valencia actually had a very positive impact in creating the opportunity for our second goal and despite this you still get the same old shit about how pointless he is. I don't actually see how Kagawa was so much better. I've wasted enough time here though. It's been a pleasure.
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