Shinji Kagawa

[wr8_utd]

I would love it we buy more skillful and technically brilliant players like him.

Our team currently lacks flair players like him.

The one we do have doesn't get to play.

 

[Brwned]

I thought he was typical Kagawa in the first half as he played a big part in us playing loads of pointless short passes and most of the time he looked on a different wavelength to the rest. It was exactly like the first half at Upton Park back in January with Scholes, Rafael, Kagawa and Cleverley in the midfield - we kept the ball well but did very little with it.

 

[LR7]

I love Kagawa but getting him RvP and Rooney on the pitch at the same time has been one of SAFs biggest problems this season and has meant at least one has been regularly shoehorned out of position.

Couldn't we try a diamond with Kagawa at the tip and Rooney and RvP in front of him? That way the three of them get to play in their best positions, there is endless opportunity for interchanging and we don't have to shoehorn wingers in because RvP and Rooney are both capable of providing crosses from wide areas.

Something like:

de Gea
Rafael - Vidic - Evans - Evra
Jones
Carrick ------ Cleverley
Kagawa
Rooney ---- van Persie​

 

[Adebesi]

I love Kagawa but getting him RvP and Rooney on the pitch at the same time has been one of SAFs biggest problems this season and has meant at least one has been regularly shoehorned out of position.

Couldn't we try a diamond with Kagawa at the tip and Rooney and RvP in front of him? That way the three of them get to play in their best positions, there is endless opportunity for interchanging and we don't have to shoehorn wingers in because RvP and Rooney are both capable of providing crosses from wide areas.

Something like:

de Gea
Rafael - Vidic - Evans - Evra
Jones
Carrick ------ Cleverley
Kagawa
Rooney ---- van Persie​

I like that idea but we need better midfield options to make it work.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Problem also with Rooney and Kagawa playing together is both of them want to come short and dictate the play.

Rooney was dropping deeper and deeper the whole game, RVP was left up top by himself and was getting surrounded by west hams defence.

We had no forward runners to create space behind them, Valencia stays wide looking to recieve and Kagawa was drifting inside trying to get in the hole.

It does unfortunately feel unbalanced. We are sort of confused in our team play, half of them want to stay wide and cross the ball, while the others want to play intricate passes and slice open the opposition. IMO you cannot do both.

 

[Crackers]

Problem also with Rooney and Kagawa playing together is both of them want to come short and dictate the play.

Rooney was dropping deeper and deeper the whole game, RVP was left up top by himself and was getting surrounded by west hams defence.

We had no forward runners to create space behind them, Valencia stays wide looking to recieve and Kagawa was drifting inside trying to get in the hole.

It does unfortunately feel unbalanced. We are sort of confused in our team play, half of them want to stay wide and cross the ball, while the others want to play intricate passes and slice open the opposition. IMO you cannot do both.

Good post, it's exactly what I've been thinking lately, but expressed far better. I'd rather us play a little more through the middle and cross once in a while, it's getting repetitive. We have the players to play in the middle and do it well, if we got our tactics right.
Hopefully we see more of this more season.

 

[Godfather]

I love Kagawa but getting him RvP and Rooney on the pitch at the same time has been one of SAFs biggest problems this season and has meant at least one has been regularly shoehorned out of position.

Couldn't we try a diamond with Kagawa at the tip and Rooney and RvP in front of him? That way the three of them get to play in their best positions, there is endless opportunity for interchanging and we don't have to shoehorn wingers in because RvP and Rooney are both capable of providing crosses from wide areas.

Something like:

de Gea
Rafael - Vidic - Evans - Evra
Jones
Carrick ------ Cleverley
Kagawa
Rooney ---- van Persie​

Jones is useless in that position. Put Carrick where you have Jones and someone quality instead beside Clev. Someone we still have to buy ^^. I like the look of that team though.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Good post, it's exactly what I've been thinking lately, but expressed far better. I'd rather us play a little more through the middle and cross once in a while, it's getting repetitive. We have the players to play in the middle and do it well, if we got our tactics right.
Hopefully we see more of this more season.

Crossing is all well and good when you do it right, but how many times do our crosses just sail over everybody in the box and go out for throw ins. I could almost count on 2 hands the amount of times it happened yesterday.

The players like RVP and Kagawa want the ball to feet in the box, they have the ability to make space and score from nothing - just look at RVPs goal, Kagawa from nowhere took the ball with the defender up his ass, knocked it to the side dummy shot and then smashed it towards goal.

We need to trust our players but we just seem so drilled in the game plan of work up the pitch, and when possible knock it to the right wing for a cross.

When Valencia was in full flight in 09/10 that was fine, but with him suffering his poor form we just look toothless from it.

 

[LR7]

I like that idea but we need better midfield options to make it work.

Really? But we play with a midfield two now surely a midfield three plus Kagawa dropping in when necessary would be sufficient? For me supply from wide areas would be the concern with that formation not the midfield - but the fullbacks Rooney and RvP could sort that imo.

 

[Carl]

Really? But we play with a midfield two now surely a midfield three plus Kagawa dropping in when necessary would be sufficient? For me supply from wide areas would be the concern with that formation not the midfield - but the fullbacks Rooney and RvP could sort that imo.

The idea of Jones regularly in midfield doesn't sound good to me. He has his uses there, sure. But in the majority of games he'd be absolutely pointless there for us.

 

[LR7]

Jones is useless in that position. Put Carrick where you have Jones and someone quality instead beside Clev. Someone we still have to buy ^^. I like the look of that team though.

A few months ago Carrick Anderson and Cleverley would have been the ideal three but Anderson has massively fallen out of favour again which is why I put Jones in and as a CB I thought he'd be best in front of the back 4...

I agree we need someone though esp as SAF doesn't seem to trust Ando at all anymore

 

[LR7]

The idea of Jones regularly in midfield doesn't sound good to me. He has his uses there, sure. But in the majority of games he'd be absolutely pointless there for us.

I don't see him as a long term CM either it was just an example

 

[acnumber9]

A shot against the post is an assist now? fecking hell. One of his better games but reading this thread is quite nauseating. If he turns out half as good people here are talking about then he'll be a great signing.

 

[Drifter]

Improving from game to game.Looking forward to next season where i believe we'll see the the best of him.

 

[Carl]

I don't see him as a long term CM either it was just an example

Pointing out that's probably what Abedesi was referring to when he said we need better options in midfield... as in, not having to use Jones there.

 

[Godfather]

A shot against the post is an assist now? fecking hell. One of his better games but reading this thread is quite nauseating. If he turns out half as good people here are talking about then he'll be a great signing.

Ehm yes.

 

[Carl]

A shot against the post is an assist now? fecking hell. One of his better games but reading this thread is quite nauseating. If he turns out half as good people here are talking about then he'll be a great signing.

Always has been in terms of official statistics I think.

 

[NinjaFletch]

A shot against the post is an assist now? fecking hell. One of his better games but reading this thread is quite nauseating. If he turns out half as good people here are talking about then he'll be a great signing.

Yes it is. Just like it always has been.

Is mean ignore the fact that Kagawa was unlucky not to score in his own right from that, hitting both posts, you can hardly argue Kagawa has nothing to do with that goal

 

[Commadus]

Kagawa is best as part of a 4231 or a 433 - and not shoe horned into the left side in a 442.

 

[Brophs]

I thought he was typical Kagawa in the first half as he played a big part in us playing loads of pointless short passes and most of the time he looked on a different wavelength to the rest. It was exactly like the first half at Upton Park back in January with Scholes, Rafael, Kagawa and Cleverley in the midfield - we kept the ball well but did very little with it.

Me too. He did some really good stuff, which he usually does, but he also drifted out of the game for sustained periods.

I find the reactions in this thread really odd. You'd swear this guy had been our stand out player all season the way people are talking about him being a cut above the rest of our team and how we have to change our style to adapt to him, rather than the other way around.

I have no doubts he'll be a good player for us, but this sort of snobbery about his style - and as a consequence, the criticism of the other players for not being "on his wavelength" - is awful nonsense. People are behaving as if it's a privilege for us to have him playing for us, rather than the other way around. There are few players good enough to justify changing your entire style of football for. Kagawa hasn't proven he's one of those, as yet.

 

[Sarni]

A shot against the post is an assist now? fecking hell. One of his better games but reading this thread is quite nauseating. If he turns out half as good people here are talking about then he'll be a great signing.

I know you despise the lad with passion but come on, shot off the post has always been an assist.

 

[wonnie]

Me too. He did some really good stuff, which he usually does, but he also drifted out of the game for sustained periods.

I find the reactions in this thread really odd. You'd swear this guy had been our stand out player all season the way people are talking about him being a cut above the rest of our team and how we have to change our style to adapt to him, rather than the other way around.

I have no doubts he'll be a good player for us, but this sort of snobbery about his style - and as a consequence, the criticism of the other players for not being "on his wavelength" - is awful nonsense. People are behaving as if it's a privilege for us to have him playing for us, rather than the other way around. There are few players good enough to justify changing your entire style of football for. Kagawa hasn't proven he's one of those, as yet.

I don't really find it that odd, to be honest. You have Valencia and Young who have been very frustrating on the wings for the most part this season, Nani who has hardly got a look in and Welbeck who has at times played quite well but scored a grand might total of 2 goals.

Our strikers are fantastic no doubt, but the what Kagawa gives us from AM/drifting in from the wings is something that no other player in the current squad offers. His two pieces of play that led to the goals yesterday is an example of things that most of our other current players have not shown to be able to produce this season - that is the ability to turn and create in the final third where there is little space.

I do wonder how many times he has been substituted this season though, I don't think he has played 90mins too many times at all.

 

[Sarni]

People overrate Kagawa because he's something we've seldom seen before, a genuine attacking midfielder with flair and ability to split defences with both passing and forward runs. He hasn't been that good this season but I can clearly see why some are excited. I can't see why others feel the need to play down all his good efforts.

 

[Stretch]

Kagawa's last 4 PL starts:

vs Norwich: Hat-trick and MOTM.
vs Sunderland: Good/decent game.
vs Stoke: Second best player in the front six(Rooney was best).
vs West Ham: Assisted both goals excellently, MOTM for United.

3 goals and 2 assists in 4 games(note: he only got to play the full 90 minutes against Norwich and Stoke). Not bad considering that he only played less than 45 minutes combined in his best position.

Fergie, please let Kagawa play in his best position from now.

This. This. And more this.

He's immensely talented and smart on the ball. I've no idea why SAF insists on playing him out of position. I hope that he get's a run at AM in our last few games.

 

[Mainoldo]

People overrate Kagawa because he's something we've seldom seen before, a genuine attacking midfielder with flair and ability to split defences with both passing and forward runs. He hasn't been that good this season but I can clearly see why some are excited. I can't see why others feel the need to play down all his good efforts.

We've had many defence splitting players in the past... Wouldn't say its nothing we haven't seen before a player like Ronaldo was. But i agree he's overall performances have been okay but there is much promise if he starts believing he's in the same ilk of those around him on the pitch.

 

[Rozay]

People overrate Kagawa because he's something we've seldom seen before, a genuine attacking midfielder with flair and ability to split defences with both passing and forward runs. He hasn't been that good this season but I can clearly see why some are excited. I can't see why others feel the need to play down all his good efforts.

I've said a few times in this thread in recent months that I felt the Kagawa excitement was more over the type of player we had signed as opposed to the actual player we had signed.

Not that I don't rate him or anything, I just feel he has more to prove. That said, I'm all for him being given a run in the team and adding a few similar players because nothing irks me more than to see a top team have no ideas other than to repeatedly cross the ball into the box in hope.

 

[Amir]

He's one heck of a footballer and he has the sort of abilities we need. The one touch football, the movement, the vision. The problem is that rather than add his qualities to the team we seem to insist on him becoming a part of a pretty stale system. If we're not going to refresh it then we shouldn't have bought a player who doesn't really suit it. But we did and I'm happy we did. We just need to take the extra step.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Me too. He did some really good stuff, which he usually does, but he also drifted out of the game for sustained periods.

I find the reactions in this thread really odd. You'd swear this guy had been our stand out player all season the way people are talking about him being a cut above the rest of our team and how we have to change our style to adapt to him, rather than the other way around.

I have no doubts he'll be a good player for us, but this sort of snobbery about his style - and as a consequence, the criticism of the other players for not being "on his wavelength" - is awful nonsense. People are behaving as if it's a privilege for us to have him playing for us, rather than the other way around. There are few players good enough to justify changing your entire style of football for. Kagawa hasn't proven he's one of those, as yet.

Bang on the money. This thread is weirder than weird.

Loved his contribution to the goals though. Especially that little feint in the lead-up to our first.

He's a really classy and composed player. Just needs to adjust to the pace of the game and make a more sustained contribution over 90 minutes.

Or - in redcafe la-la land - he just needs to escape from the shackles that have been placed on him by a manager and team-mates who are doing everything in their power to stop Shinji being Shinji.

 

[acnumber9]

I know you despise the lad with passion but come on, shot off the post has always been an assist.

Has it feck. And there is a vast middle ground between not fawning at his feet and despising him. What an overly sensitive chap you must be.

 

[LR7]

But i agree he's overall performances have been okay but there is much promise if he starts believing he's in the same ilk of those around him on the pitch.

I saw something yesterday which showed he was willing to impose himself upon the game and really try to impact it. Better than the game he got the hat trick for me because he was more proactive. He's said in a couple of interviews he needs to build his confidence. I think the whole enormity of the club might have been a surprise to him and he hasn't fully come out if his shell yet but to me there is enough promise through the glimpses we have seen to get excited.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Has it feck. And there is a vast middle ground between not fawning at his feet and despising him. What an overly sensitive chap you must be.

So if Kagawa does not get the assist, who does?. The post? the grass?

 

[Sarni]

Has it feck. And there is a vast middle ground between not fawning at his feet and despising him. What an overly sensitive chap you must be.

Nah, you just hate him and will do anything to make him look worse. It's a similar situation to kietotheworld v de Gea stuff where he tried to blame every goal conceded on him. Kagawa could score 30 next season and you'd be telling us they were all easy but deep down you'd be devastated that he's done well.

 

[Sarni]

So if Kagawa does not get the assist, who does?. The post? the grass?

Rooney, obviously.

 

[ben_foster]

id love to see him just play centre mid with carrick. especially at home against teams that are going to sit off us.

 

[ghaliboy]

Kinell bleary eyed this morning I didn't really appreciate just how amazing that Kagawa assist was.. Such a class player.

But I have to admit after reading Brwned's posts earlier he's absolutely spot on. He's hardly playing outside left at all. It's all tucked-in, inside forward play.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

So if Kagawa does not get the assist, who does?. The post? the grass?

The stream I watched the game on awarded the assist to Kagawa, and TV hasn't lied to me yet.

 

[Keenst]

David Silva like performance last night, I love watching him play.

 

[acnumber9]

Nah, you just hate him and will do anything to make him look worse. It's a similar situation to kietotheworld v de Gea stuff where he tried to blame every goal conceded on him. Kagawa could score 30 next season and you'd be telling us they were all easy but deep down you'd be devastated that he's done well.

You couldn't be more wrong. Why would a Utd fan want a player to do badly? Go and lie down for a while.

 

[acnumber9]

So if Kagawa does not get the assist, who does?. The post? the grass?

Every goal doesn't require an assist attached to it. How can you be credited for doing something you haven't tried to do?

 

[ghaliboy]

You couldn't be more wrong. Why would a Utd fan want a player to do badly? Go and lie down for a while.

As much was said to Kie when he was here. That bloke was mental.