Glazer out, Bale in
Gareth Bale is...The most expensive player ever?!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You're out of date with market prices.
Anything less than £50m would be an excellent price.
He scored goals but less than the top scorer. So either he created more (which he did barley any of) or he ran the game better (which he never does). There surely has to be some basis for him being "clearly" the best. He plays almost as a striker and doesn't put up numbers like the very best strikers.
£60m as a percentage of our revenues in 2013/14 is probably inline or close to the £30m paid for Rooney back then.
Rooney has proved well worth it. If we sell him, we will at least break even on him.
Bale is a fecking must. A truly special talent that, being British, we should be the #1 favourites to land if we go for him.
Rooney has proved well worth it. If we sell him, we will at least break even on him.
Bale is a fecking must. A truly special talent that, being British, we should be the #1 favourites to land if we go for him.
I don't get bogged down with stats, I just use my eyes to judge which player I think has performed the best.
IMO, that's Bale. A great number of goals with only average players providing him with the opportunities, vast number of last minute or late wonder winners and generally just being the most exciting player in the league.
Shocked Spurs didn't get one penalty this year.
but then we wouldn't have signed Little Ole.........things worked out perfectly
Shearer was superb, and would have suited our style perfectly at the time. We'd have been a different proposition in Europe - formidable for me.
And Solskjaer was a bargain. I suspect having Shearer wouldn't have put Fergie off. Top player by the way - arguably one of Fergie's best signings in my book.
He is not a striker and the team he plays on is not as good as the team Van Persie plays on. Individually nobody performed better imo bar perhaps Mata he was amazing for them consistently winning games single-handedly. How many match-winning performances did he put in.
Tottenham as a team rely on him to provide most of their attack. Who is their second best player? Who is their second best performer? I don't think that is even the same person he has Adebayor and Defoe upfront. You are talking about running the game he is not that type of player. You put him on a better team in the same role you would get improved improved performances.
Just talking about how many goals he adds doesn't show any context in terms of the team he is on or the role he plays. He was in the best 3 players in this league the season at worst. He is still 23 and improving all I want to see is him thrive more in a team context as he would have to do on a better team but the things you have picked up on are odd.
Except you don't seem to be able to put across what he's done that. He scored goals, we get it. If that's the criteria then there are others who scored more. The argument of worse team isn't all that important when you consider Rvp scored more for a lesser arsenal than united last season. Bale isn going to score 60 for barca. Doesn't work that way.
So taking away the goalscoring, what is your opinion based on? It's hardly like messi who is better in other areas than Ronaldo due to being more creative. Rvp and Suarez both created and assisted more than bale who barley had any assists. Neither, like an iniesta as compared to a Lampard, does he have more technical ability on the ball which adds more to the side. Both Rvp and Suarez are better on the ball than Bale.
So I'm not sure what you base it on. Is it just the goals and their nature/timing?
He might be a prick but isn't Suarez a much more exciting player to watch too? Some of his touches, bale simply isnt capable of. Same with Rvp, technically he is brilliant. But I guess excitement is extremely subjective.
Rvp was arsenals best player by a mile in recent times. Why did he score less at united though? He had a great season but was more prolific for arsenal.
I mean in that case Suarez shits on them all as a player because his time finished lower than fecking Everton!!
As for match winning performances, didnt Rvp win more points than bale for his side ? He is pretty much playing like a striker. Similar to Ronaldo for real. They both play a role than maximises their chances to score.
It's based on the football I'v seen the players play over the season.
Hardly rocket science.
Arsenal create more chances for their strikers than we do if you watch them play he had more clear cut goal-scoring opportunities there.
It is down to you to decide if you think Suarez is better than Bale but these kind of things can't be read of a piece of paper. I can bring stats to suggest Gomez is the best striker in Europe yet he is on the bench for Mandzukic. I can bring stats that say Di Natale is a better striker than Totti. What you actually watch over 90 minutes is most important. Suarez was Liverpool's only consistent attacker/goalscorer until January so they give him the ball a lot he is still quite wasteful and misses many chances he should put away and he tends to score the majority of his goals against weaker teams.
If you put Suarez in that Everton team as a swap for Anichebe he would not have scored as many as he did for Liverpool as Everton do not create as many chances etc. much the styles a team play are important to getting the best out of players. Rodgers did that better than AVB.
I just don't see your point that he scored less and dominated less so he is not as good as a player. You have to take into account the systems players play in and how they actually play you haven't seemed to have done that.
I agree that Bale and Ronaldo have similar roles but if you swapped their teams Bale would have scored more goals than he did this year and Ronaldo would have scored less goals just due to the drop off in service. Does that make Bale a better player or closer to Ronaldo than he actually is? You take into account the system and the players alongside any star when assessing how good they are and how best they perform. Bale was even putting in match winning performances for Wales. He has had an amazing season.
I would be the last to deny Bale's greatness. When I was a newbie last season I made the case for Bale and got the shit pounded out me by old hands on the senior board on the caf. The case for Bale is beyond overwhelming now.
No doubt we have 60m lying around somewhere and that Bale is "worth" 60m. But if spending the 60m for Bale financially precluded us from strengthening our central midfield personnel that's something we'd have to think through. I'd still give the purchase a green light as I actually don't have as big a problem with our central midfielders as many here do. Don't get me wrong -- Fabregas and Strootman would incredibly strengthen the squad but I just don't see how we could possibly land Bale, Fabregas (or Modric) AND Strootman (or Fellaini). My back of the envelope math has those three costing us around 120m. I know the year is 2013 but 120m still has to be regarded as a huge wad of cash, even for a club as big as United.
But if all we did was land Bale, I'm okay with that and I'd even go so far as to say that securing the prem trophy would be a snap regardless of who Chelsea and City bring in. The only doubt would be how far we'd go in CL action. Kagawa is a highly competent, at times brilliant, attacking midfielder -- although some view him as a forward...perhaps he's a hybrid of the two. Cleverley is very developing nicely, though not as quickly as we'd all like. Roo (another saga yet to play itself out) can be deployed there on occasion. And to be honest with you, I see greatness in Powell though he's still very young and we're not going to see greatness from him in 13/14.
What world do you live in? Seriously.
The real world. Are you even aware of our financial situation?
Not only that, the danger level he brings, drags others out of position, and we are more capable of exploiting that than Spurs.
Bale can't be compared to Suarez and RVP. Bale is an attacking midfielder. It's well known he scored 9 goals from outside the box, but less reported that he actually scored 15 goals where he picked the ball up from outside the box. That is what makes him so valuable. He isn't finishing team chances. He's adding an extra dimension to teams. As good as RVP is, he hasn't added an extra dimension. We always have one lead striker who scores 20-30 goals per season. RVP now has that role.
From a traditional attacking sense, of the team creating chances and a striker finishing them, it's hard to see how we can improve that much. But if you add a player who can score individual goals, time and time again, suddenly you have a whole new dimension to your game and it can take the team to a higher level.
From a traditional attacking sense, of the team creating chances and a striker finishing them, it's hard to see how we can improve that much. But if you add a player who can score individual goals, time and time again, suddenly you have a whole new dimension to your game and it can take the team to a higher level.
Well, OK, but taking away 26 goals (all competitions) is a bit like asking what did the Roman Empire ever provide apart from roads, sanitation, law and order etc etc?
But then you're still left with 10 assists (all competitions), more shots on target (Prem only) than any other Prem player and 75 chances created (Prem only).
I wanted him, until you started the hard-sell.
Good. I'd recommend you focus on a more realistic target anyhow.
Carrick, Berbatoc, Modric... Bale... Either this season or next.
You're in cloud cookoo land if you think Spurs can keep hold of Bale even medium term.
Yep only way I see us dropping that much for Bale. Rooney would defo need to be thrown in with some cash.
Rooney's not going to Spurs 
Reckon I'd probably be tempted by Rooney+£15m for Bale.
You don't seem to have anything to say about the football he played over the season though, apart from scored goals, screamers, last min goals and other goal related things which Rvp did more of anyway. That, and, excitement, which is more to do with preference rather than quality.
Oh god the mentioning of swapping Bale for Rooney again, thought we were over this....
Rooney isn't going to spurs you clowns!
No.
I'm not supprised he had so many shots on target, he took more shots than the rest of the league put together
It all depends on where the club are financially. Clearly central midfield needs to be addressed and I think it will be.
The question is whether the club see a player like Bale as being someone to break thank for. If he's a target, possibly for next summer thy may have to move now.
I obviously don't know the financials of the club from the inside - perhaps they can spend big this year, knowing they won't have to spend much over the next couple of seasons. Its also the case that a new manager might want to shed some dead wood. If Rooney goes along with a few others, £50 million could easily be recouped.
Personally I'd take Bale. Di Maria, in my opinion won't be any better than an on form Nani in the PL. Matic has one decent season in Portugal (seethe disaster that had been Javi Garcia). Thiago looks a good player and d probably make an impact - are we desperate for his type of player? Not for me, although it would be nice.
Bale has the potential to Be the basis for a decade of success and has a huge amount of potential. Too much to ignore.
I'll give you an example of when it's right to buy big. In 2002 United spent £30 million on Rio Ferdinand - a British record, and on a centre half. It was a huge sum and it turned out to be money well spent.
or Rooney
Rooney + Nani + Anderson + 10 to 20 million = Bale
Don't you know that the latest benchmark figure from RM is £85m?
Makes no difference if he doesn't want to go to there.
Some Journo on TalkSport had it right this morning. Perez is desperate to sign him because he has an election on the horizon. Big difference in this case is that rather than the usual of "flatter the player - wait till he tells the world he wants to play for Real Madrid" - Bale is saying nothing, although it seems his agent wants the move more than the player.
Bale seems a sensible lad. A move to Real to be another "toy" for Madrid means he'll be second fiddle to Ronaldo, won't have the freedom he has at Spurs and will be under huge pressure to perform. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't fancy it, this year at least.
I think he'll stay this year in ateam built around him, continue to develop and then have the pick of top sides next summer. I suspect United will be interested and will have a big shout.
Indeed.
I don't hold with the Real Madrid, Chelsea and City models of trying to buy a superstar for every position - football is about building a team, but United need to be able to compete with other top sides when a player of this calibre may be available. It's especially the case if that player is British and might fancy a move to the North West over a move to Spain.
RvP is another good example. No sell on value, injured a lot in the past, huge wages - but an absolute masterstroke.
I hope Real bid soon as I think it will force our hand.
I really think there is a decent chance he will become a United player this summer or next. It's just too logical.
I really think there is a decent chance he will become a United player this summer or next. It's just too logical.