Shinji Kagawa

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Its 3 games in to the season for crying out loud :lol:
btw you do realize he had virutally no break in the off season due to international commitments and needs to be able to ease back in to the team. Its not just the physical but the mental break he hasnt had.

We have a big squad, its not the end of the world if Kagawa gets a slow introduction to the season (which he needs because of the lack of an off season break)

The question is, do we have that luxury?

I don't know, maybe it's gettin to me, but I'm really excited about Kagawa playing. And hopefully Moyes utilize him fully
 
The question is, do we have that luxury?

I don't know, maybe it's gettin to me, but I'm really excited about Kagawa playing. And hopefully Moyes utilize him fully
We have the luxury, we have plenty of options which is why we keep winning trophies. We have a big squad full of talented players. Fergie rotated players not for fun but because the only way to be in the running for multiple trophies is have a big squad. We will be in the mix for trophies this season, we have the players.

Kagawa needs to have a gentle start to the season so he is firing at full power later on and not burnt out and jaded. The off season gave him no physical or mental break.
 
We have the luxury, we have plenty of options which is why we keep winning trophies. We have a big squad full of talented players. Fergie rotated players not for fun but because the only way to be in the running for multiple trophies is have a big squad. We will be in the mix for trophies this season, we have the players.


But we don't have Fergie. Having a great squad is one thing, having the manager to get them to perform week in / week out is another.
 
Kagawa can play very well on the left. With a license to drift inside ala David Silva at City. Infact he has been ace in that role for Japan. I see no reason why he can't do the same for us. IMO, he has noreason to be in a direct fight with Rooney for a spot down the middle. Ideally Kagawa, Rooney, Nani should be the first choice 3 behind RVP, with a license to roam freely.
 
His problem is not. We play with 1x number 10 and after this summer its official, he's bigger than the club and Kagawa wont be given a run there. You cannot expect him to play like he did at Dortmund in a different, more peripheral role. Only if he plays the same, important role.
Not allowing Rooney to get his way shows he's bigger than the club? :wenger:
 
People really do love to overreact. It's 3 games into the season. This happens every season. This time it's Kagawa. Our schedule gets more packed soon, all the squad will get games and chances to prove themselves. People can play themselves out/in the team. Marathon not a sprint.
 
People really do love to overreact. It's 3 games into the season. This happens every season. This time it's Kagawa. Our schedule gets more packed soon, all the squad will get games and chances to prove themselves. People can play themselves out/in the team. Marathon not a sprint.

This
 
If moyes can't utilise Kagawa... i highly suspect his tactical skills

If the likes of Giggs and Young are ahead of him... make all tactical explanation we want, but it's rather strange that a player of his calibre can't even find a permanent slot in a team filled with Giggs/Ando/Cleverly in midfield (I put carrick aside as he is more on the defensive aspect of the team)

Kagawa is still a midfielder after all, now matter how forward he plays.
 
If moyes can't utilise Kagawa... i highly suspect his tactical skills

If the likes of Giggs and Young are ahead of him... make all tactical explanation we want, but it's rather strange that a player of his calibre can't even find a permanent slot in a team filled with Giggs/Ando/Cleverly in midfield (I put carrick aside as he is more on the defensive aspect of the team)

Kagawa is still a midfielder after all, now matter how forward he plays.

Three games into the season is nowhere near enough time to possibly know if "Moyes can't utilise Kagawa". We have seen very little rotation at all, and it doesn't mean Moyes doesn't rate the players he hasn't used. Evans was excellent last season and we've seen nothing of him yet. It was always going to be a difficult start with the opening fixtures and I just think that Moyes has been a little cagey with rotation throughout that period. Give him chance.
 
SAF failed to utilise Kagawa effectively tbh, so it wouldn't be very fair to single out Moyes for harsh treatment for the very same.

It pains me to say it but perhaps Kagawa just isn't as good as we once thought he was. It's not uncommon for extremely promising young players to fail too make the grade at the top level.

I'm not saying that this must be the way of things with Shinji, just that it's a possibility we shouldn't ignore. I still have high hopes for him.
 
SAF failed to utilise Kagawa effectively tbh, so it wouldn't be very fair to single out Moyes for harsh treatment for the very same.

It pains me to say it but perhaps Kagawa just isn't as good as we once thought he was. It's not uncommon for extremely promising young players to fail too make the grade at the top level.

I'm not saying that this must be the way of things with Shinji, just that it's a possibility we shouldn't ignore. I still have high hopes for him.

Fail to make the grade? Probably, but considering it's Scholes/Giggs/Ando/Cleverly that is playing ahead of him, its kinda atrocious he didn't have more game time to him.

Last season SAF probably wouldn't wanna tamper with the working formation and rather benched Kagawa, but Moyes has a new start, and should have figured out where he gonna play Kagawa
 
SAF failed to utilise Kagawa effectively tbh, so it wouldn't be very fair to single out Moyes for harsh treatment for the very same.

It pains me to say it but perhaps Kagawa just isn't as good as we once thought he was. It's not uncommon for extremely promising young players to fail too make the grade at the top level.

I'm not saying that this must be the way of things with Shinji, just that it's a possibility we shouldn't ignore. I still have high hopes for him.

Surely excelling at Dortmund and Japan is cutting it at the top level though? perhaps a better argument would be his inability to adapt to other systems and styles of play, but it's probably still too early to even say that concidering how long it takes some players to adapt to the English game.
 
SAF failed to utilise Kagawa effectively tbh, so it wouldn't be very fair to single out Moyes for harsh treatment for the very same.

It pains me to say it but perhaps Kagawa just isn't as good as we once thought he was. It's not uncommon for extremely promising young players to fail too make the grade at the top level.

I'm not saying that this must be the way of things with Shinji, just that it's a possibility we shouldn't ignore. I still have high hopes for him.


He isnt a promising young talent. He's an established performer.

What he needs is luck with injuries and then needs to adapt to our system, its pace and the league.

I still think he'l shine here, just needs time and faith. Needs to add some muscle too if he can, would help him.
 
If moyes can't utilise Kagawa... i highly suspect his tactical skills

If the likes of Giggs and Young are ahead of him... make all tactical explanation we want, but it's rather strange that a player of his calibre can't even find a permanent slot in a team filled with Giggs/Ando/Cleverly in midfield (I put carrick aside as he is more on the defensive aspect of the team)

Kagawa is still a midfielder after all, now matter how forward he plays.

Why complicate the issue?
Kagawa not being in the side this season or last season has nothing to do with Cleverley or Anderson.
They play in a different position. CM position. Kagawa has never played CM at United or Dortmund.
Kagawa is competing with Rooney and Welbeck for the CAM/deeper forward position, and Welbeck, Young, Giggs on the left. The club and posters here have already explained why he has not started any games so there is nothing strange in the situation.
 
there is no reason why kagawa and rooney cant alternate positions during a match. will make for much more fluid attacking options.
 
So calling the situation as it is, is a sign of overreaction? It's a valid point, whether you agree or not.
3 games in to a season with respect to a player who didnt get a preseason and is being handled appropriately with respect to that major issue is calling the situation as it is.
Being a drama queen 3 games in to the season and ignoring the off season workload the player had is simply being a drama queen, thats also just calling it as it is.
 
there is no reason why kagawa and rooney cant alternate positions during a match. will make for much more fluid attacking options.


Rooney is pissed enough for not getting to play as a striker, imagine the look in his eyes when Moyes breaks the idea that he will play half the game from the left wing.
 
SAF failed to utilise Kagawa effectively tbh, so it wouldn't be very fair to single out Moyes for harsh treatment for the very same.

It pains me to say it but perhaps Kagawa just isn't as good as we once thought he was. It's not uncommon for extremely promising young players to fail too make the grade at the top level.

I'm not saying that this must be the way of things with Shinji, just that it's a possibility we shouldn't ignore. I still have high hopes for him.
Kagawa has already made the grade at a team as good as us. He's not promising but a proven player of high quality. It's just a case of adapting to a very different team, that's all. The way we play and the way dortmund play are worlds apart. Look at fabregas. He's starting to come good but he's struggled to fit in at a team he grew up playing for coming from a team which is supposedly "England's barcelona" (well not really but you catch my drift).

Basically if kagawa went back to Dortmund I'm sure he'd be a tramendous player for them again. He simply has to adjust and what remains to be seen is whether the two (United and kagawa) can be a good fit.
 
3 games in to a season with respect to a player who didnt get a preseason and is being handled appropriately with respect to that major issue is calling the situation as it is.
Being a drama queen 3 games in to the season and ignoring the off season workload the player had is simply being a drama queen, thats also just calling it as it is.


My issue is not over whether Kagawa plays.

The reason I quoted you in the first place is because I wanted to highlight the fact that we do not have the "luxury" of being able to rotate players - a point which you made, which I don't believe to be true.

Yes, Kagawa should start when fit, but until then, we should be playing our strongest team, which in my opinion does not include Giggs or Young.
 
My issue is not over whether Kagawa plays.

The reason I quoted you in the first place is because I wanted to highlight the fact that we do not have the "luxury" of being able to rotate players - a point which you made, which I don't believe to be true.

Yes, Kagawa should start when fit, but until then, we should be playing our strongest team, which in my opinion does not include Giggs or Young.
We have been rotating players for the last decade and we have pretty close to the same squad as last season . We have the same ability to rotate players this season as we did last season.
 
Why are people still refusing to understand the fairly obvious and simple reason that Kagawa didn't play vs. Liverpool as opposed to players who have been preparing all pre-season?
 
Why are people still refusing to understand the fairly obvious and simple reason that Kagawa didn't play vs. Liverpool as opposed to players who have been preparing all pre-season?

Because he was on the bench against Chelsea....wasn't used and then disappeared for the trip to Anfield. By comparison Ashley Young has had a disruptive pre-season with injury, was also on the bench against Chelsea, got on for 20 minutes and then makes it into the starting line-up the following Sunday.

Kagawa is fit to play, Moyes just didn't pick him.
 
Kagawa makes case in Guatemala win

The playmaker was given a good run out for the national team on Friday night though, as the Samurai Blue defeated Guatemala 3-0 in Osaka.
“The football we play with Japan is different to that at my club, and there are different things demanded of me here so I feel a strong sense of responsibility—to create goals and to ensure we get results,” Kagawa told reporters after the routine friendly win. “There’s a slight difference with what is expected of me in that sense. For Japan, I am asked to get higher up the pitch than with United.

“Personally, I want to be the one getting through on goal and taking shots, and I am a bit disappointed that I wasn’t really able to do that today and didn’t score any goals myself.”
Moyes has refuted claims that Kagawa doesn’t fit into his plans for the Red Devils, insisting that the former Borussia Dortmund star’s endeavors at June’s Confederations Cup and his subsequent late arrival for United’s pre-season training camp have left him a little behind his teammates in terms of match-readiness.
Kagawa started in his preferred role as the shadow striker against the Guatemalans and completed 75 minutes, however, and he is confident that more action in Tuesday’s match against Ghana in Yokohama will further improve his condition.
“My general feeling is that [my fitness] is not too bad,” he said. “And we still have one more game to come against Ghana—a stronger opponent [than Guatemala].”
Kagawa is also hopeful that his opportunity will come soon, and concurs with Moyes’ assertion that the two have not really had enough time to get to know each other yet.
“It’s very early to say [what I think of Moyes],” he said. “I think after I get back I will start to get a feel for the new manager.”
 
If he had an engine and a tad more grit, he'd be our answer to Scholes but as it stands.. he wouldn't be more effective than Cleverley in that midfield position, not against top sides.. Carrick would be left to hold the midfield together alone. Its worth a punt though against smaller sides or if we're chasing a goal.

If he is going to be successful in a Pienaar type position, he really needs an aggressive left back alongside him.. one whose a goal threat/crossing machine in his own right, someone like Marcelo would be perfect but obviously Baines might be a better shot at least being that sort of player... Evra and Shinji is about as penetrative as Pele without pills - none of them want to go round the outside and put the ball in, so teams can just tuck in and reduce the space in which Shinji can work in.

Thats a very interesting point. Makes the case for Baines or Coentrao all the more.
 
Because he was on the bench against Chelsea....wasn't used and then disappeared for the trip to Anfield. By comparison Ashley Young has had a disruptive pre-season with injury, was also on the bench against Chelsea, got on for 20 minutes and then makes it into the starting line-up the following Sunday.

Kagawa is fit to play, Moyes just didn't pick him.


Kagawa is not fit to play you delusional, paranoid feckwit.

Nani was out against Chelsea with an injury. Against Liverpool he took Kagawa's place on the bench because he was fitter. Ashley Young was also fitter, hence why he came on versus Chelsea, hence why he started vs. Liverpool.
 
Kagawa is not fit to play you delusional, paranoid feckwit.

Nani was out against Chelsea with an injury. Against Liverpool he took Kagawa's place on the bench because he was fitter. Ashley Young was also fitter, hence why he came on versus Chelsea, hence why he started vs. Liverpool.

Thats not very nice is it? :nono:
 
Thats not very nice is it? :nono:


Have you met Comsmit?

He lives in an alternate reality where Manchester United are shit and SAF (and now Moyes) is an idiot who can't see the blatantly obvious. He acts as though every decision that Manchester United make is so stupid that it must have been taken solely to annoy him.
 
Kagawa is not fit to play you delusional, paranoid feckwit.

Nani was out against Chelsea with an injury. Against Liverpool he took Kagawa's place on the bench because he was fitter. Ashley Young was also fitter, hence why he came on versus Chelsea, hence why he started vs. Liverpool.

Stop being such a twat Rowem, you can make points without abusing everyone.
 
Stop being such a twat Rowem, you can make points without abusing everyone.


"Yeah, you twat, stop abusing people. Twat!" :rolleyes:

There are very few people I abuse. Comsmit wants abuse, he loves a WUM.
 
"Yeah, you twat, stop abusing people. Twat!" :rolleyes:

There are very few people I abuse. Comsmit wants abuse, he loves a WUM.

I didn't call you a twat, I said stop being one ;)

There are quite a lot of people you abuse whenever you are disagreed with.
 
Because he was on the bench against Chelsea....wasn't used and then disappeared for the trip to Anfield. By comparison Ashley Young has had a disruptive pre-season with injury, was also on the bench against Chelsea, got on for 20 minutes and then makes it into the starting line-up the following Sunday.

Kagawa is fit to play, Moyes just didn't pick him.


Ah so you know the fitness levels of all our players better than our coaching staff do you?

Moyes said he wants to make Kagawa a key part of the team. It's 3 fecking games in! Kagawa had pretty much no pre season match practice after the confeds cup, and so I would imagine his match fitness hasn't been sharp for a while. Young on the other hand was recovering from injury, but he got some game time in from matches played behind closed doors (I think), and would have spent the entire summer training and exercising. I imagine, even though he was recovering from injury, that Young was more ready for these matches, and we will see Kagawa this season. Just have a little bit of patience and don't have a huge strop if he doesn't get picked against Palace ok?
 
Comsmit will throw a strop if the fecking corner flags are at an angle that isn't acceptable to him.

Is Kagawa on his way home now? I'm sure he'll play some part on against Palace with Rooney out. Hopefully Nani will play with him, they had a really good understanding last year when they played close together.
 
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