Shinji Kagawa

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Saliph said:
Spare me the condescension.

He performed better than Valencia, Giggs and Welbeck IMO. Certainly not worse.
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Yep. More goals than all our other wingers combined, maybe even more assists?
Great pass completion and kept things ticking over nicely.. and for me, tracked back well and put pressure on the ball.

He showed his attributes and his potential - and that's the main thing. The qualities he showed last season are the qualities we've lacked in our last few games.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
None of whom played a lot of games at No.10 though did they?

Also, I like being condescending. It gives me a feeling of superiority.
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Then you'll surely agree that buying Kagawa was a bit pointless, to put it mildly. Why buy someone if you have no intention of playing them in their preferred position and to their strengths?
 
I don't want to see him played as a winger though. I want to see him played either behind the striker or as a midfielder.

Could we ever line up with something like this as a front 6?

Valencia - Kagawa - Carrick - Nani
Rooney
RVP
 
Saliph said:
Then you'll surely agree that buying Kagawa was a bit pointless, to put it mildly. Why buy someone if you have no intention of playing them in their preferred position and to their strengths?
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See my post above. I would love to see him given a chance as a midfielder in a two with Carrick beside him and Rooney infront. Surely he can do as much as Cleverly in that position.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
I don't want to see him played as a winger though. I want to see him played either behind the striker or as a midfielder.

Could we ever line up with something like this as a front 6?

Valencia - Kagawa - Carrick - Nani
Rooney
RVP
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Naah, he's too deep in that. Will be a waste as he's at his best in and around the box. Maybe something against very weak opposition because Carrick will have a lot of work in that system.

He needs to play as a tucked in wide player on the left.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Naah, he's too deep in that. Will be a waste as he's at his best in and around the box. Maybe something against very weak opposition because Carrick will have a lot of work in that system.

He needs to play as a tucked in wide player on the left.
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Surely he can do as much buzzing around as Cleverly does from that deep position and didn't Klopp say he was best in the middle. Rooney almost plays as an extra midfielder in that formation anyway and Valencia will give plenty of help in the middle.
 
Kagawa was bit of a strange purchase. He's suited to a system we've never really deployed. I still believe Moyes to be the man to adapt our playing style to suit Shinji.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Surely he can do as much buzzing around as Cleverly does from that deep position and didn't Klopp say he was best in the middle. Rooney almost plays as an extra midfielder in that formation anyway and Valencia will give plenty of help in the middle.
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At his best in the middle but close to goal, he's not a CM. If we want to get the best our of him, put up a solid Carrick-Fellaini base and give Kagawa the license to operate centrally while starting off from the left. No point compromising him by playing him in a psuedo CM role and compromising Rooney too by making him play deep, no one benefits in that scenario. Both of them do their best work close to the D, get them there. Play an extra solid CM that allows them to do so.
 
Ramshock said:
Or how about a straight swap for Carrick from time to time to give the poor cnut a breather?
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Well thankfully fellaini does allow us to rest carrick now an again, don't think you could put kagawa in there, for the same reason you wouldn't play silva, mata, nasri, ozil etc in central midfield, all the aspects of their game which they excel at are best served playing high and with freedom to find little pockets which you just can't do in a two man midfield.

I suppose we could use a diamond, but I'm hoping at least nani will regain some form and be in the team as well. Still think letting kagawa drift from the left or right is the best shout.
 
Bearing in mind the idea of a constant starting eleven is a thing of the past and obviously certain games require certain players and certain times there will be a need to rest players. but all in all, surely its as simple as saying our strongest eleven has a front set of:

......carrick........fellaini

nani.......rooney.........kagawa

..........van persie

with that row of three swapping about. the best players adapt to positions and if any dont then they arent as good as we may think. tougher away games and europe you could swap kagawa with another midfield body and nani for valencia maybe. i really can not see any alternative to that, as much as i rate welbeck and think he will be great, he's not a starter just yet, we should accept that and make picking a team alot easier. welbeck will be great, i rathe him very highly and think certain games he will do great in but all in all the above should be enough to beat most teams...in theory of course
 
Rowem said:
Kagawa is not fit to play you delusional, paranoid feckwit.

Nani was out against Chelsea with an injury. Against Liverpool he took Kagawa's place on the bench because he was fitter. Ashley Young was also fitter, hence why he came on versus Chelsea, hence why he started vs. Liverpool.
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I'm paranoid? feckwit :) I like that actually Rowem.

Well if he's fit to travel across the world playing for Japan I'm pretty sure he's fit enough to play for Manchester United. He had minutes in the Community Shield did he not?

He's fit to play football. Moyes has chose not to pick him. That is all.
 
Red Shorts said:
Ah so you know the fitness levels of all our players better than our coaching staff do you?

Moyes said he wants to make Kagawa a key part of the team. It's 3 fecking games in! Kagawa had pretty much no pre season match practice after the confeds cup, and so I would imagine his match fitness hasn't been sharp for a while. Young on the other hand was recovering from injury, but he got some game time in from matches played behind closed doors (I think), and would have spent the entire summer training and exercising. I imagine, even though he was recovering from injury, that Young was more ready for these matches, and we will see Kagawa this season. Just have a little bit of patience and don't have a huge strop if he doesn't get picked against Palace ok?
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Ok.
 
What bugs me is that Rooney has acted a cnut, is not any more match fit than Kagawa and really is quite sloppy in the 10 role. I don't care if a 40 year old playes ahead of him, as long as the said 40 year old is in better form and performs better. Nor do I care if Rooney plays ahead of him if there are good reasons for that. It does bug the hell out of me that Kagawa isn't getting game time when he is the player we are sorely lacking for creativity.

In my opinion, playing Rooney and benching Kagawa is an act of cowardice. We'll have to wait and see, but I wouldn't hold a grudge against Kagawa if he wishes to leave should this continue.
 
If he doesn't play against Palace there is something seriously wrong.

I can understand not thrusting him in after an odd summer and 3 horrible opening fixtures, but now there is no excuse for him to not be playing once a week with two games a week (CL and league cup).

Come on David Moyes, pick Fergie's Japanese boy.
 
He will play against Palace. Rooney still has a part of his head missing and Kagawa is best suited for the role in behind the striker in his absence. If he doesn't play I expect this thread to self destruct.
 
He's done on Tuesday, arrive back in Manchester Wednesday and has two full days to recover before Palace. Hopefully that's long enough.

Really, really should be starting against Palace. Could easily start a 3 behind the striker of Nani - Kagawa- Welbeck.
 
Rossa said:
What bugs me is that Rooney has acted a cnut, is not any more match fit than Kagawa and really is quite sloppy in the 10 role. I don't care if a 40 year old playes ahead of him, as long as the said 40 year old is in better form and performs better. Nor do I care if Rooney plays ahead of him if there are good reasons for that. It does bug the hell out of me that Kagawa isn't getting game time when he is the player we are sorely lacking for creativity.

In my opinion, playing Rooney and benching Kagawa is an act of cowardice. We'll have to wait and see, but I wouldn't hold a grudge against Kagawa if he wishes to leave should this continue.
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That's making no sense to me. Rooney has been in good form, two assists against Swansea and our best player against Chelsea. If he's fit he should play surely.

I'm a fan of Kagawa but to say it's cowardly to pick Rooney ahead of him is bizarre.
 
TheReligion said:
That's making no sense to me. Rooney has been in good form, two assists against Swansea and our best player against Chelsea. If he's fit he should play surely.

I'm a fan of Kagawa but to say it's cowardly to pick Rooney ahead of him is bizarre.
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It is - with Rooney's antics he should be behind quality players like Kagawa in the pecking order until he sorts his head. Playing Rooney as pleading him to stay is cowardly, imo. He was quite good against Chelsea, I'll agree to that.
 
Don't quite get all this Kagawa fuss. We're only a tiny amount of games in, including Chelsea and Liverpool away, and he's probably not full fitness.

if he's still not featuring too heavily in 2months, then it might be an issue.

A lot of fans like the sound of Nani, Kagawa and Rooney off VP, now that we have Fellaini to go with Carrick in the middle.
 
Sandikan said:
Don't quite get all this Kagawa fuss. We're only a tiny amount of games in, including Chelsea and Liverpool away, and he's probably not full fitness.

if he's still not featuring too heavily in 2months, then it might be an issue.

A lot of fans like the sound of Nani, Kagawa and Rooney off VP, now that we have Fellaini to go with Carrick in the middle.
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Difficult to drop welbeck based on form though
 
sun_tzu said:
Difficult to drop welbeck based on form though
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Kagawa will never get any form if he isn't given a chance

And besides, kagawa is a far better player than welbeck. Welbeck has speed, but kagawa can add so much more...
 
Once the champions league/capital cup kick in there will be plenty of games to go around for all the attacking options.
 
Rossa said:
It is - with Rooney's antics he should be behind quality players like Kagawa in the pecking order until he sorts his head. Playing Rooney as pleading him to stay is cowardly, imo. He was quite good against Chelsea, I'll agree to that.
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The only head he has to sort out is that massive gash. He'll be fully committed on the pitch.
 
Rossa said:
Like he was last year? How long till he acts a right out cnut again?
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We'll you said he need to get his head sorted. I'm saying in his last game he was fully committed and played well. So should we be dropping him because he's not committed when he is or is it incase he's not committed in the future which is just bollocks.
 




Goal Japan Chief Editor.

Also just searched Kagawa on the AFP Site(where all these quotes have been attributed and can't find nothing). Very convenient for the media to slate Moyes.
 
KM said:
Goal Japan Chief Editor.

Also just searched Kagawa on the AFP Site(where all these quotes have been attributed and can't find nothing). Very convenient for the media to slate Moyes.
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And the normal gimps on here gobble it up hook line and sinker.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
We'll you said he need to get his head sorted. I'm saying in his last game he was fully committed and played well. So should we be dropping him because he's not committed when he is or is it incase he's not committed in the future which is just bollocks.
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I believe I was talking about what's hopefully inside his head. My bad if you didn't get that.

I don't think he should play until he states his ambitions and if he is ready to commit himself to the club! Why should the club cater to his world cup ambitions if he acts a dick?

Kagawa looks committed all the time whereas Rooney only plays well when he feels like it - otherwise doesn't look to be arsed. Is that the kind of player you want, one that is more comitted to what the team can do for him than what he can do for the team? I also still believe his technique is just a little too erratic to be a world class number ten. Kagawa has no such technique issues.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
:lol: Right then. And you don't think there's a chance that any of this may be influenced by your dislike for Rooney?
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Solid argument there, mate. You don't think your positive outlook on a guy who's practically shat on the club twice may be influenced by you being a massive fanboy?

My dislike for Rooney certainly influences my comments about him, but they aren't just full of silly smiley faces and what not. Ferguson was adament that no one was bigger than the club, and nor should Rooney ever be, but he is dangerously close to getting there if he is given more leeway now. I just don't think it's worth it.

You say he should play based on his recent committment. Should he play in three months if he loses that and should he be reinstated into the team once he gives a f*** again? Why not rather play Kagawa who seems to have the right attitudes and who has proven himself one of the best in Europe in that position.
 
Rossa said:
Solid argument there, mate. You don't think your positive outlook on a guy who's practically shat on the club twice may be influenced by you being a massive fanboy?

My dislike for Rooney certainly influences my comments about him, but they aren't just full of silly smiley faces and what not. Ferguson was adament that no one was bigger than the club, and nor should Rooney ever be, but he is dangerously close to getting there if he is given more leeway now. I just don't think it's worth it.

You say he should play based on his recent committment. Should he play in three months if he loses that and should he be reinstated into the team once he gives a f*** again? Why not rather play Kagawa who seems to have the right attitudes and who has proven himself one of the best in Europe in that position.
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Read the thread* you twat if you think I'm a massive fan of Rooneys. I just think it's laughable that the reason you gave for wanting him dropped is not there at this moment, so why don't you just be honest and say you don't want him to play because he's a twat.

Edit: *Rooney Thread.
 
The sad thing is you just know we'll sell him for absolute peanuts and he'll go on and become a superstar.

We'll get 8 mill for him tops now that Moyes has made it clear he's completely unwanted.

And to rub salt in the wounds Moyes will play Fellaini off the striker and have us playing hoof ball stuff.
 
Rowem said:
The sad thing is you just know we'll sell him for absolute peanuts and he'll go on and become a superstar.

We'll get 8 mill for him tops now that Moyes has made it clear he's completely unwanted.

And to rub salt in the wounds Moyes will play Fellaini off the striker and have us playing hoof ball stuff.
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I love Kagawa but there's a lot of exaggeration and assumption derived from little evidence here, and I'm sure Klopp would be willing to pay at least 20M tomorrow for him.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Read the thread* you twat if you think I'm a massive fan of Rooneys. I just think it's laughable that the reason you gave for wanting him dropped is not there at this moment, so why don't you just be honest and say you don't want him to play because he's a twat.

Edit: *Rooney Thread.
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Who's calling who a twat? No need for that!

I don't care who is a twat or not per se. What I care about is people who play for the club and not themselves. Rooney has been sulking because there wasn't enough ambitions at the club - then buy RVP and he sulks about not being the main man. I would rather have new players get that slot as I don't think he's indispensiable. Not sure why I'm a twat for saying that.
 
With Rossa on this personally. It isn't primarily because Rooney is a twat...which he is.....its more that I believe Kagawa needs, and deserves, a fair crack of the whip. With consistent backing and faith he could be immense for this club.

Rooney is far from out of the woods after one alright performance against Chelsea. I would like to see a player backed who hasn't spent the summer flirting with Jose Mourinho, rather highlighting his own shortcomings and expressing a determination to prove himself at a club he desprately wants to succeed at.
 
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