Sure, I did say a bit too much, not that we shouldn't rotate at all. We have a great squad and players will pick up injuries, but so far Moyes has managed to get most a game without making wholesale changes match to match. I approve.
Moyes So Far!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Sure, I did say a bit too much, not that we shouldn't rotate at all. We have a great squad and players will pick up injuries, but so far Moyes has managed to get most a game without making wholesale changes match to match. I approve.
One thing (that I said quite a long time ago in this thread) is that he is clearly encouraging players to have more confidence on the ball, and to take people on.
Both Young and Valencia have shown far more willingness to get past a man, Rooney too than the last few seasons.
Last season I remember Ferguson commenting after the Chelsea game in the Carling Cup that he 'usually discourages Nani from taking players on in that position' - maybe by position he meant that it was 90 minutes and injury time and we were going through; but I think what he really meant was taking on a man not in the final third. I think ever since we started trying to play more 'possession' football that he maybe took the edge from some of our attacking play.. I don't like to criticize him, and this is all guesswork of course - but for whatever reason, since Moyes has come in players have been more willing to take the ball on and dribble past a man - and that's very encouraging for me.
Both Young and Valencia have shown far more willingness to get past a man, Rooney too than the last few seasons.
Last season I remember Ferguson commenting after the Chelsea game in the Carling Cup that he 'usually discourages Nani from taking players on in that position' - maybe by position he meant that it was 90 minutes and injury time and we were going through; but I think what he really meant was taking on a man not in the final third. I think ever since we started trying to play more 'possession' football that he maybe took the edge from some of our attacking play.. I don't like to criticize him, and this is all guesswork of course - but for whatever reason, since Moyes has come in players have been more willing to take the ball on and dribble past a man - and that's very encouraging for me.
I think it's more the result of a pressing tactic personally. Moyes has us keeping it tight and put more emphasis on breaking up the other teams play. Winning the ball more often and higher up the pitch, gives the attacking players better opportunities to have a go at defenders and create really good chances.
We are now winning it back noticeably quicker, and bossing the midfield more as a result. That can only make us even more competitive against good passing sides. We look effective and strong through the centre, and with the defence better protected our attackers can play with more freedom and with lessened defensive responsibilities in midfield.
Last night i don't remember Rooney dropping deep to the half way line to pick the ball up. We have seen him do that regularly in previous seasons. He seemed to stay pretty high up the field for the most part, and he played with a confidence we haven't seen for quite a while. Fellaini and Carrick are decent enough passers between them to be capable of giving our strikers and wide men good service, and if they can do that regularly, we have more than enough creativity and goal threat up front to cause any team serious problems. Encouraging so far but early days yet. Hope we can kick on now and play just as well against City, I think we should beat them if we can.
We are now winning it back noticeably quicker, and bossing the midfield more as a result. That can only make us even more competitive against good passing sides. We look effective and strong through the centre, and with the defence better protected our attackers can play with more freedom and with lessened defensive responsibilities in midfield.
Last night i don't remember Rooney dropping deep to the half way line to pick the ball up. We have seen him do that regularly in previous seasons. He seemed to stay pretty high up the field for the most part, and he played with a confidence we haven't seen for quite a while. Fellaini and Carrick are decent enough passers between them to be capable of giving our strikers and wide men good service, and if they can do that regularly, we have more than enough creativity and goal threat up front to cause any team serious problems. Encouraging so far but early days yet. Hope we can kick on now and play just as well against City, I think we should beat them if we can.
He has had to pick near enough his strongest squad because of the the opening set of fixtures. Just
2 relative comfortable matches(Crystal Palace and West Brom at home )in the first 8 matches means Moyes has no margin for error in making wholesale changes.
I noticed this with rooney the other day. Couldnt believe what was going on as i hadnt seen rooney take on his defender so many times in 1 match in a long long while.
Not since he was 20 years old!!
That game was amazing. Roo seemed to suddenly rediscover all the pace, verve and flair which made him such an exciting player to watch as a teenager. Having longed for the return of the early Rooney for years, and finally accepted that he was gone for good, I was knocked sideways to see him on the pitch. I just hope it's not a flash in the pan.
If Moyes had anything to do with the Rooney renaissance, and it endures, I forgive him every summer transgression, real or imagined. He's now my hero.
Aye Rooney was certainly showing signs of the youngster that would run at defenders. It could well be that Moyes is encouraging that whereas SAF wanted to mould Rooney into an efficient forward. Combining it all, could we be about to see a better Rooney than we've ever seen before?
if moyes can start making wayne rooney taking on defenders again then well done! we haven't seen that enough over the last few years for sure.
Only thing that slightly concerned me about tuesday night was he never commented on the poor defending for the two sloppy goals. Maybe we just wanted to keep the interviews focused on the positives but theres no way he could have been happy with the first goal anyway.
He won't be happy with either goal. The second one was a shambles as well with Rio and Dave playing their parts.
I'm pleased that the players seem to be enjoying his methods and different approaches to the game. Rooney said he liked Moyes' more intense training and he seems to be reinvigorated by different approach taken to training and match preparation. I think that's crucial to Moyes' on going success here. He's got to have his players on side and buying into his ethos. In a way Meulensteen and Phelan leaving I think can be a good thing, gives players like Rooney a clean break and a chance to start afresh.
Moyes' pressing system:
Cutting out more clips, as game progresses.
Cutting out more clips, as game progresses.
Indeed this was the first game I have seen us try some real pressing since forever. Looking forward to the development of our team and so far I think it's quite positive.
I thought we defended quite well. We didn't allow any clear cut chances and the second goal came after two individual mistakes, little Moyes could do about that.
Of course Moyes also won't criticize his players openly. We all know what happens if he does. The mail and other tabloids would jump at it and makes some bogus story out of it like "Moyes thinks De Gea isn't good enough. Neuer to United January?"
Took the time to specifically praise Valencia and said he's encouraged him to try and score more goals.
Now if he can fire up Nani's confidence and the duo of RvP and Rooney keep firing...
Now if he can fire up Nani's confidence and the duo of RvP and Rooney keep firing...
Now if he can fire up Nani's confidence and the duo of RvP and Rooney keep firing...
If we had a brilliant Nani on the other wing, I can see the treble...almost!
Funny that, as he slated it in his first book.
You look at Moyes' results so far, and you have to say that if SAF was in charge for those games there's every chance they could look the same. The fact that our football seems to be actually improving as well is another positive. Beating City tomorrow will be massive.
Beating them tomorrow would be even more massive as the game's on Sunday!
(just being a dick, I agree with you)
If Moyes is developing our pressing game which is what it looks like then in the big games I think you'd probably have to go with Valencia and Welbeck either side of Rooney wouldn't you? I wonder how many oppurtunities Nani and Kagawa will get when the games get tougher?
I think Moyes has penciled in Welbeck in terms of his strongest team, especially if he keeps scoring.
I see what you are saying, but even players who have not been previously renowned for their defending can still improve that area of their game. Pressing isn't really that effective if only a couple of individuals are doing it, but if the whole team does it, then it makes it far easier even for the likes of Nani and Kagawa to become more effective doing it as part of a structured unit.
SAF simply didn't employ any noticable pressing tactic, so many players were defending on their own and not as a unit. That will especially highlight those players who are not particularly good at that part of the game. Organisation and an understanding that everyone knows what is expected when it comes to closing down, will make even poor defensive players more effective.
Totally agree, no one would say that Messi, Villa and Pedro are great defensively but the reason that Barca were so good a couple of years ago is that they pressed phenomenally well as a unit. I just think that in the big games Moyes will go with Welbeck and Rooney behind Van Persie and then especially if Valencia can regain some form then he'll play on the right.
If Rooney gets back to his best then I think he'd rather solidify us with two hard working wide players who also create rather than Nani and Kagawa who although they do there fair share of hard work they rarely actually win the ball back. Essentially, if we're creating chances without Nani and Kagawa then why make yourself weaker defensively? If we're not then he'll change it up, like you said, if you press as a team then the players are interchangeable to a degree.
Having said that, both players are very talented and if they hit a purple patch then they could easily break into one of those spots and stay there.
Merson has a go at Moyes for telling the press that Young dived last weekend.
Merson also said it was "only Palace and Leverkusen" and we shouldn't say Rooney is back yet, and Young should have been sent off for his dive.
Merson also said it was "only Palace and Leverkusen" and we shouldn't say Rooney is back yet, and Young should have been sent off for his dive.
Probably premature, and not Moyes fault (for the most part), but is anyone worried about our how flat we've looked this season in the final third? With SAF he managed to get the best out of them and even on our worst day we still looked threatening. This first half against City has been as bad as I've seen United for some time... and that's saying something.
People still think it's dead cert we will finish in the top 3. It will be tough based on the games we've seen so far.
Starting Young ..... I mean wtf do they see in him ? I expected some changes from a tactical POV in these big games but the zombie football is being kept same as always.
That's just not true, we had days under Sir Alex where we looked just as useless as we look now.
Usually we always got a response. Three big games so far in the PL and its awful.Fergie wouldnt let the players get away with three games like that
I think the only thing I would say is being too cautious. I mean it could be that he rates Young/Valencia above Nani/Kagawa but I think its more their work rate and that they've been fit. But with RVP out I think we've just left ourselves lacking in attack. One of the latter guys in for Young could have made a real difference but we'll never know. Needs a big half time team talk because regardless of the team selection we've been nowhere near as intense or energetic as they have and the one advantage you'd think he'd see in valencia/young, their defensive work has not been there.
I wont argue with you but the point is even at our worst we still looked like we had A chance in us - a clear cut chance. Here we just look so flat like we expect it will all come, granted we may score here today but against Chelsea and even Palace (before the pen) we looked so toothless
Go back four months and pick the most cliched WUM written about how the appointment of Moyes would pan out and how he'd go about managing us and you'd get this.
Don't blame him, he has been left with useless lumps like Valencia and Young as first teamers. If he is still playing these two next seasons, then questions should be asked. Neither of them good enough for a side that should be aiming to become one of the best in Europe.
Im willing to give him time to settle and put his print on this team but he has to do better then what I just watched!
My fear is because he rates Valencia and Young over the likes of Nani/Kagawa (hell even Zaha from the looks of it) he clearly likes his wingers to be more defensive and better in their own half
The way we set up right from the 1st min was not like Fergie IMO. Young and Val were pushed back right from the start and only looking to protect their fullbacks. There was really no positivety at all.
Moyes obviously wanted to shut them out for the 1st 20-30 mins and then see what happens. For the 1st 10 mins we looked fairly well organised defensively, then Valencia went to sleep and we have been headless chickens ever since.
Moyes obviously wanted to shut them out for the 1st 20-30 mins and then see what happens. For the 1st 10 mins we looked fairly well organised defensively, then Valencia went to sleep and we have been headless chickens ever since.
The only criticism I have is his persistence with Young, besides that he's done nothing wrong for me and I don't see any real changes from Fergie's era.
Is Nani fit? If so no idea why he hasn't had a real shot in the first team, Kagawa doesn't look fit to me so I understand why he's not playing. But Nani should be ahead of Young every day of the week if he's fit.
Is Nani fit? If so no idea why he hasn't had a real shot in the first team, Kagawa doesn't look fit to me so I understand why he's not playing. But Nani should be ahead of Young every day of the week if he's fit.
We looked far more defensive and afraid in the title decider two seasons back. The one where SAF dropped our best player at the time in favour of Park.
In big games, his concern seems to be not losing too badly. Against Chelsea and Liverpool, we've did nothing decisive going forward. It's not working out well today either.
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