I am seriously gobsmacked by this decision. Has Moyes lost his marbles? Or his bottle?
Shinji Kagawa
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I am seriously gobsmacked by this decision. Has Moyes lost his marbles? Or his bottle?
Yeah, and Fellaini, just in comparison due to him most likely playing behind RVP tonight, was exceptional in doing his defensive duties lately.
We've done it in the past (although not recently) with Carrick holding and Fletcher and Anderson playing slightly ahead of him in Europe.
It would also allow Valencia and Welbeck to stay higher up the pitch and ready for any counters.
It's a case of wait and see for me. If we're going with 3 in the middle then I totally get why he's been overlooked. If Fellaini's in the hole however....
He was never going to play tonight you tards 
"Sinji" is on Godzilla watch duty tonight is what I'm suspecting to hear in his interview.
Look, I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see him play, but I don't know how anyone can look at that lineup and not see what we're trying to do. Whether Fellaini plays off RvP or not doesn't really matter, because Moyes will know he can drop him into a deeper role, something Kagawa has shown no aptitude for so far. Bearing in mind what our approach is obviously going to be to the game, I can see why Moyes thinks (not me before people start whining) that he doesn't suit the way we're set up.
true but we also had Ronaldo in those days or at least someone with a big counter threat wide. Can't imagine we did that with say park and Valencia wide of top of my head, and Ando with his pace in those specific games helped.
Valencia and Welbeck could play high but not sure how big counter threats they are, welbeck has never been that creative.
Sure, if you ignore the fact that Japan plays a completely different style.
Jesus Christ. Your assumptions we want to build the team around him is the most absurd thing written in this entire thread. It's okay to think a player United purchased should be given a chance at his chosen position. He had glimpses of looking good last year.
But if we're going to not use him to his capabilities, we should sell him and find a player more suited to the role. He's not. You need to accept that.
Can't see why he isn't starting... If Fellaini ends up playing in the hole I'll be gutted. Think it's clear to see Moyes isn't impressed by Shinji, he won't be with us next year
We definitely did, although it tended to be Park and Nani supporting the lone striker.
The 3-1 win away against Arsenal springs to mind, with Rooney playing brilliantly up front by himself.
He should leave and go back to Dortmund. It's a shame seeing us ruin him. If I were him I'd definitely leave as soon as possible, going by how Moyes has used him. If Sir Alex were here still then I have no doubt he'd be becoming a key player, but no chance with Moyes' style. It doesn't suit Kagawa's type.
There not assumptions, seen lots of people championing the idea.
He can perform on the wing, if he can't he'll be off because at the moment he's not going to displace Rooney. You say he should be given a chance in his chosen position when we already have a player for that area in Rooney, so are you suggesting we move Rooney from his preferred position?
I'm fully aware he had glimpses of what he can do when he played last season, which is why I mentioned that. Problem is he's shown very little this season. He doesn't warrant a place in the team right now. Kagawa has the capability to play wide, but as I said he needs to adapt and get on the teams wavelength to succeed there. Like I said, he won't be a traditional winger. I think most fans want him included in a three behind the striker where he'll be allowed the freedom to roam and not stay wide all game. His problem at the moment is he seems unaware of his position and occupies similar positions as Rooney and Nani and doesn't give us options.
It's like talking to three year olds. He isn't good on the wing. We don't play in the same style as Japan. If we aren't going to use him, sell him and buy an appropriate player for our plans.
Or, act like you don't know how to speak of other humans.
Good to see you haven't seen tonight's lineup. And yes, against weaker opposition, I would have no problem with trying that. Or when we give RVP a rest. Correct, like last year, there will be opportunities to give him a chance. Moyes looks to not believe in him.
You've just made my argument. As I said, square peg, round hole. Sell him. Get a player that isn't the same player as Rooney.
No, it's because with Kagawa in the side we have to pass the ball on the ground and not just hoof the ball long each time. fecking hate watching us play long ball football.
Yeah that's what I meant. Nani is a much bigger counter threat than Valencia because of the way he plays, being able to come inside and outside. I don't think Fergie ever picked valencia and park, even when nani was coming back from injury against City twice I remember him coming in for Young/Valencia just because he is a bigger counter threat.
Tbf it's going alright so far, but we easily could have given a pen away and our goal was hardly great play. Defending well. Personally not seen anything to me that suggests we couldn't have had kagawa in there.
I think you're misunderstanding me.
I too currently believe he's a square peg for a round hole. What I'm saying he has the ability to adapt, and needs to step up or he'll be shipped out. He can play in a wide position cutting in or roaming across the front line. The problem is his good performances are sporadic and I don't believe it's as simple as him being played out of position. He's shown glimpses on the left, the same as he's shown glimpses centrally but in neither position has he truly shined for us yet.
I hate this defeatist attitude of we might as well get rid of him because he won't get to play centrally consistently. He's at one of the biggest clubs in the world, a move elsewhere will likely be a step down. If he can't learn to adapt, step up and be a team member and play where is required he must have mentality issues about his ability or the pressure of playing for United.
I do believe he'll succeed, ability wise he certainly has it in him. IMO he'll develop a role where he doesn't have a set position, making all these arguments about his best position moot.
People speak as though Kagawa is Zinedine fecking Zidane.
Kagawa has been poor and doesn't deserve to be starting games.
The fact that Moyes chose to bring on a 40 year old Giggs instead of him speaks volumes.
Kagawa has been poor and doesn't deserve to be starting games.
The fact that Moyes chose to bring on a 40 year old Giggs instead of him speaks volumes.
He was still better than Fellaini today.
About who?
About who? Moyes or Kagawa?
I feel sorry for him. Yes, he's been poor but so has the whole squad. Couldn't have been much worse than Fellaini tonight. He deserves to be playing week n, week out.
Moyes discusses possible substitutions with his backroom staff:
Moyes: "Eh, who do you think we should bring on, lads?"
Neville: "I think we could do with Shinj..."
Giggs: "What's happening, fellas? When am I coming on?"
Neville: "... with Ryan's experiences in the middle."
Moyes: "Get stripped, Ryan."
This isn't an attempt an humour. This is how I genuinely think they go about their business at times.
We badly needed creativity and some quick football. Either Nani or Kagawa could have provided that
He had as face like a wet weekend as he sat on the bench. Felt sorry for him as I thought he could have replaced Welbeck early on in the second half when Danny seemed to disappear out of the game.
Sorry, I meant Kagawa.
I know.
He must be really shit in training.
Personally I think Moyes might be a bit racist.
This Kagawa love in is getting ridiculous.
He'll be gone next season I reckon. Just don't see it working out for him here anymore. He wont get to play where he is at his best often, or he wont play at all as he's not that good when played out of position (why would he be). You sign a player who thrives on playing behind the striker, you don't really expect him to be the same player out on the left tracking back and covering for Evra being caught out of position all the time.
Not starting him was fine, the three man midfield held up well despite Fellaini doing his best to lose the ball and foul someone every time he got possession. The fact that he (or Nani) weren't brought on after their goal is what is worrying. We had absolutely no creativity going forward and we were perfectly content to not do anything about it and just hope for the tie.
Kagawa is too small for Moyes. Orduck said that more than a month ago and was crucified by people who thought that we'll see a fluid attacking football under Moyes.
One of his relatives must have been a POW on the Burma railway or something. I can see Shinji being eased out maybe as soon as January.
Aren't Kagawa and Pienaar the same height? Pienaar was pretty much a main stay in the Everton XI.
We'll see him leave next summer and he'll turn into a world class player for Dortmund and then people will wonder why it never worked out for him here. It's because Moyes doesn't like him or trust him at all, and he'll get one half like against West Brom and even though he was one of our better players, he didn't score a hat trick so he gets subbed off. Sir Alex clearly rated him, but now that he's gone Kagawa can't get a look in. It's ridiculous, and so very frustrating.
Yeah. Anyway despite what Caf wanted to believe they are very different players. Pienaar is a hard worker who makes a lot of defensive contribution from the wing (and not that good going forward). Kagawa is an excellent No.10, but doesn't have Pienaar's attributes which I don't think we'll need anyway. Welbeck is much similar to his style of play with Pienaar than Kagawa IMO.
I don't understand why people keeping suggesting this is simply Moyes not rating him, he hardly got a look under Sir Alex last season either. I'm not really sure what the problem is at all, he's clearly a talented player and should be getting much more playing time.
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