Fixed.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Fixed.
He might as well be fat then.
Of course we do that. And we hopefully will with him. We are talking about his performances so far though. And they have been underwhelming. And who knows how much room there is for him to develop. We will have to wait and see.
It's been a month, what are you even trying to argue. You said he's the finished article previously yet now agree he can develop here?
We do have to wait and see, that's why some of the comments on here are so daft.
To provide a bit of perspective, this is the sort of thing people were saying about Carrick when he signed him:
He isn't what we needed/he doesn't address our issues/he can't work alongside our current first choice midfielder
And even after him having played for us for half a season he couldn't shake off that reputation of simply not being the player people wanted - we needed a top class midfielder and he wasn't that, he didn't replace Keane, he didn't replace the qualities many felt we lack. It's all very familiar.
He isn't what we needed/he doesn't address our issues/he can't work alongside our current first choice midfielder
We paid far too much money/we look like mugs when we do business in the transfer market
Or the more specific points made here that are reminiscent of some of the points made on the previous page alone:
And even after him having played for us for half a season he couldn't shake off that reputation of simply not being the player people wanted - we needed a top class midfielder and he wasn't that, he didn't replace Keane, he didn't replace the qualities many felt we lack. It's all very familiar.
I'm not saying he's going to be another Carrick, he might well be another Hargreaves for all I know. I'm just making the simple point that fans are always much harsher on new signings that they're familiar with.
devilish 
Fecking me and my fixation with bloody mascherano.
He always moans about everything.devilish
Sounds like a lot of people were saying, "He's a good player, but I don't know if he'll fit in." I actually think that's the great dilemma every time you sign someone directly for the first XI. The team never did get a new Robson, a new Keane or even a new Ince. Right now it's not getting a new Scholes - though who knows, it may yet get an old Fletcher.
Given that you can't replace like for like, it's hard to visualise the new alignment. Not just for fans. SAF didn't buy Veron on a whim. Repeated England managers thought they had the formula for playing Gerrard with Lampard.
If that's all that bothers people about Fellaini, then they need to wait and see.
I'm not sure that's all that bothers people about Fellaini.
No. I said he is pretty much the finished article. I just don't see that much room for improvement in him but as I've said, Ill gladly be proved wrong. Anyway you said he is way better than Clev and Ando and a DM. Both is wrong and thats what I tried to argue. He has a lot.to prove and tbh you can easily judge player by only watching them a few times. You always get an impression as to whether someone looks promising or a great talent or whatever. When I see him though, and may it only.be a month, I'm not sure he is all that.
Pretty much the same things that are evident even today. Not a fast closing tough tackler. Man I miss Fletcher.
Almost all of those posts are critical because they overrate the value of tackling and aggression in a midfield player. Something that is natural as we were blessed with Keane for so many years. But just because Keane was aggressive doesnt mean that he was the player he was because of that aggression. He was also a greatly gifted player technically with excellent awareness. He just happened to be a very good tackler and an aggressive presence as well which made him the ultimate midfield general. I would argue that the aggressiveness and tackling ability were less important to his success than the positional awareness and technical ability that he also brought to the table. This has become more apparent to United fans as we have learned to appreciate a less aggressive but still very successful midfielder in Carrick. Being a tackler isnt needed to be a successful holding midfielder.
Carrick was appreciated for his technical ability when he was signed and the criticism of the transfer was mostly based on uncertainty concerning whether he was the kind of player we needed or not. With Fellaini questions are being asked if he even has the ability level that we should expect from a United player, especially considering he most likely is the finished article. Carrick was always going to be able to play a part in a technical, free flowing kind of football even if he didnt immediately fit our system. I dont really see Fellaini having the right skill set to adapt and settle into a new side like Carrick eventually did. Hes the kind of player who needs the system adapted to fit him to get the most out of him, not a player who can slot into many different systems with ease. Thats my assessment at least and why this is different to signing a player like Carrick.
I hope Im wrong but I really dont see this Fellaini CM project being very successful..
Carrick was appreciated for his technical ability when he was signed and the criticism of the transfer was mostly based on uncertainty concerning whether he was the kind of player we needed or not. With Fellaini questions are being asked if he even has the ability level that we should expect from a United player, especially considering he most likely is the finished article. Carrick was always going to be able to play a part in a technical, free flowing kind of football even if he didnt immediately fit our system. I dont really see Fellaini having the right skill set to adapt and settle into a new side like Carrick eventually did. Hes the kind of player who needs the system adapted to fit him to get the most out of him, not a player who can slot into many different systems with ease. Thats my assessment at least and why this is different to signing a player like Carrick.
I hope Im wrong but I really dont see this Fellaini CM project being very successful..
Nah, read the first page of that thread, Brwned didn't even post close to the worst of it.
I don't know why devilish even supports United. He pretty much hates everything about the club.
this is a bit from a BBC story.
Manchester United midfielder Marouane Fellaini is expected to play with a cast on his wrist for Belgium in their World Cup qualifiers against Croatia and Wales.
The 25-year-old midfielder missed United's 2-1 win at Sunderland on Saturday because of the injury.
It had been feared he would be out of action until December.
But although coach Marc Wilmots said Fellaini had ligament damage and needed surgery, he trained on Tuesday.
There are also reports suggesting Fellaini, who joined United from Everton on transfer deadline day for £27.5m, will delay having an operation until December.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24434863
Manchester United midfielder Marouane Fellaini is expected to play with a cast on his wrist for Belgium in their World Cup qualifiers against Croatia and Wales.
The 25-year-old midfielder missed United's 2-1 win at Sunderland on Saturday because of the injury.
It had been feared he would be out of action until December.
But although coach Marc Wilmots said Fellaini had ligament damage and needed surgery, he trained on Tuesday.
There are also reports suggesting Fellaini, who joined United from Everton on transfer deadline day for £27.5m, will delay having an operation until December.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24434863
This is the classic case of "only idiots who don't understand football thought he wouldn't make it, I understand football and my reasoning for doubting this player is much more sophisticated". Unsurprisingly that line has become more popular over the years as people get lost in the wave of faux-intellectualism nonsense which dominates so many football discussions. Lots of people just thought Carrick wasn't good enough or just wasn't worth the money, just like Fellaini now.
Im going to cry. We are WASTING £17 million on a half decent player at best. What would Roy Keane say?
worth no more than £6 million! hes clearly an average player and we could do better than that. I'd rather keep Fletcher in the team rather than waste all this money on the overpriced overrated Carrick.
What is your opinion of Fellaini then, Brwned.
From previous posts IIRC you aren't a fan either.
From previous posts IIRC you aren't a fan either.
That is indeed the problem, people are stuck in what needs replacing. When we signed Carrick everyone wanted Keano's replacement. Now that Carrick has established himself everyone wants the perfect partner for him (but also someone who can be his backup!).
I do think Fellaini will become a useful squad player, the problem is everyone is assessing him relative to other summer targets like Fabregas and they are somewhat right to be pissed given the fee, but that's not his fault, is it?
I'm increasingly wary of looking for "Carrick's partner". Yes, he has been our best midfielder for years now, but how much longer will that last? And will we then be looking for the new Carrick for whoever we belatedly sign as his partner? Maybe we should be looking for a different midfield combo going forward?
I wouldn't mind seeing some Carrick-less combos tried out in cups, or 4-3-3 and see how that pans out (I could see Ando, Cleverley, Kagawa, Januzaj and eventually Lingard/Powell working quite well in the more advanced roles). It was really dull against Shakhtar but a one off experiment is bound to be a bit of a car crash in terms of fluid play.
Cut him some slack, he is hurting from SAFs retirement and our activities over the Summer weren't the best. Some will just take longer to digest it all.Yes I think many of the early Carrick doubters are idiots, especially the ones who just said "OMG WHY DIDNT WE BUY MASCHERANO" or similar tripe. But a lot of the posts you bring up as knee-jerk post transfer criticism arent that unjustified and I dont see what they have to do with Fellaini. Are you making the point that every transfer gets discussed in the relevant player thread? Saying that he might not have been exactly what we need or that we might have to buy another player to get the most out of him is pretty light transfer criticism. People who say "hes shit, waste of money" with no explanation should rightly be ignored as with every transfer.
17m was a lot back then for a relatively unproven player like Carrick, its not outrageous to think we overpaid for him at the time. Carrick has been massively successful, and I think most think even now with the benefit of hindsight that it was a fair price. Not a huge bargain or a steal, not overpriced, just exactly what we should have paid for a player considering his ability and talent at the time and what he has given us down the years. If Fellaini goes on to be as successful as Carrick then 27m might be seen as about right but that's a big ask. Its very seldom a transfer becomes as successful as Carrick did. Odds are Fellaini will not be as successful and 27m will be seen as overpaying for the player.
While Carrick was an obviously very gifted technical player, Fellaini seems a niche player, a big brawling AM with decent technique. Hes very good at that role where he can utilize his size to its fullest extent, but he wont ever play that role at us for a sustained period because Rooney plays in that very area on the pitch and is excellent in his position. Good technical and intelligent players will always be safer buys than players like Fellaini, because they can adapt to new systems and positions. Just look at Lahm at Bayern for instance (extreme example because hes so very very good but its just for illustration) - hes always been a very good technical player and now hes excelling in a new position effortlessly. Players whose main forte is physical ability on the other hand cant just be expected to adapt to the much more technical CM positions, especially not at Fellaini's age. Fellaini fills a specific role that we dont need at United, and we have taken an expensive gamble hoping that he can form a good CM partnership with any of our other CMs.
Criticism of this transfer is more valid than criticism of the Carrick transfer ever was. You cant just write off early criticism as nonsense because "some posters criticized Carrick and look how he turned out".
17m was a lot back then for a relatively unproven player like Carrick, its not outrageous to think we overpaid for him at the time. Carrick has been massively successful, and I think most think even now with the benefit of hindsight that it was a fair price. Not a huge bargain or a steal, not overpriced, just exactly what we should have paid for a player considering his ability and talent at the time and what he has given us down the years. If Fellaini goes on to be as successful as Carrick then 27m might be seen as about right but that's a big ask. Its very seldom a transfer becomes as successful as Carrick did. Odds are Fellaini will not be as successful and 27m will be seen as overpaying for the player.
While Carrick was an obviously very gifted technical player, Fellaini seems a niche player, a big brawling AM with decent technique. Hes very good at that role where he can utilize his size to its fullest extent, but he wont ever play that role at us for a sustained period because Rooney plays in that very area on the pitch and is excellent in his position. Good technical and intelligent players will always be safer buys than players like Fellaini, because they can adapt to new systems and positions. Just look at Lahm at Bayern for instance (extreme example because hes so very very good but its just for illustration) - hes always been a very good technical player and now hes excelling in a new position effortlessly. Players whose main forte is physical ability on the other hand cant just be expected to adapt to the much more technical CM positions, especially not at Fellaini's age. Fellaini fills a specific role that we dont need at United, and we have taken an expensive gamble hoping that he can form a good CM partnership with any of our other CMs.
Criticism of this transfer is more valid than criticism of the Carrick transfer ever was. You cant just write off early criticism as nonsense because "some posters criticized Carrick and look how he turned out".
I had a skim through my previous posts and came across this. Thought it was pretty relevant to the discussion...
Anyway, when he first came I thought he was a big lump who was good in the air. He stepped it up the next season and has since shown the potential to be a very good midfielder, so all in all I'm glad to have him. I do harbour some doubts that he's a bit Hargreaves-esque in terms of not really being the right sort of player for us but then he's obviously a more versatile, more rounded midfielder than Hargreaves anyway. He's a much more incisive passer for starters. In fact he's a more incisive passer than the caf favourite Dembele, it's just playing a relatively simple pass into the forwards feet is less impressive than dribbling 10 yards, fannying about with the ball at your feet, dribbling back a couple of steps and then making a sideways pass to the forward despite achieving the same thing.
To be fair, we did overpay for Carrick at the time. Obviously it's worked out for us but still, 17m was a lot for what he'd shown up to that point so it was fair criticism at the time.
Why are people bringing up Carrick anyway? For every player we doubted and were proven wrong surely there's equally a few players we doubted and were proven right?
Knew I had posted something like that. Thing is, if we had paid around 15-18m for him then our intentions for him would have seemed very different. Then we would have bought a squad player. Paying 27m sends out a statement to the fans and to the player that we want this player to be an important part of the team, that we really think this player would be something special for us. I like having Fellaini as a squad player, he can be a good player to send on late in games if we desperately need goals. Put him on as a third striker/AM and watch the opposition scramble as he uses his physicality to win lose balls and create chances that way.
Thats not what we seem to want from him though. Moyes seem to want him to be part of our first 11 and, more disturbingly wants him to play CM. Fellaini has also confirmed this in interviews so its obviously been part of the talks between him and the manager. I dont think it will work.
Really happy to have him if we let him play where he is useful when we need it. Not happy to see him shoehorned into a position hes not very good at and taking valuable game time from Cleverley in the process.
Fellaini and Moyes both seem convinced that his best position is as a cm so it's worth giving him time to settle into that position before we write him off. I have doubts over whether he has the right attributes to succeed there but a bit of faith is needed I guess.
The only way signing Fellaini can really harm us is if we a) don't sign better players because we want him to be a first team player long term or b) start playing him behind the striker, where he really isn't good enough for us. I doubt we'll do either of those so Fellaini will probably work out fine, as long as we don't actually expect him to live up to his price tag.
The only way signing Fellaini can really harm us is if we a) don't sign better players because we want him to be a first team player long term or b) start playing him behind the striker, where he really isn't good enough for us. I doubt we'll do either of those so Fellaini will probably work out fine, as long as we don't actually expect him to live up to his price tag.
Brwned, do you think he would combine well with Carrick? Or would you want to see him with Cleverley? I am intrigued by the prospect of leaving Carrick out for Fellaini and Cleverley in the center of the park.
"Presence" from Fellaini if not the same sublime playmaker ability given by Carrick but the mobility of Cleverley and the style that Fellaini has shown early in his United career makes me more intruiged to see that combination that Carrick-Fellaini. The whole Tackler-Playmaker/reader combination I thought would come about from Fellaini-Carrick looks planets away imo.
Still think Fellaini will have a positive impact on the club for whatever reason though.
"Presence" from Fellaini if not the same sublime playmaker ability given by Carrick but the mobility of Cleverley and the style that Fellaini has shown early in his United career makes me more intruiged to see that combination that Carrick-Fellaini. The whole Tackler-Playmaker/reader combination I thought would come about from Fellaini-Carrick looks planets away imo.
Still think Fellaini will have a positive impact on the club for whatever reason though.
The differences between the old Orton and Count Duckula and the current posters is amusing.
With all due respect -we had our disagreements on Macheda, Obertan, Berbatov... i wrote them off and rightly so. Fellaini is not nor will be good enough for United. We can make a bet that he will not be here in three years. 50 quid for charity??
Moyes can play his 27,5 mil pet but sooner or later he will understand that its pointless. Fellaini is a squad player.
And will be here in three years as exactly that. The last thing you do with a squad player you overpaid for is get rid and take the loss. You amortise it over several seasons.
I think it's quite obvious we didn't pay the release clause because it was at the top end of our valuation and ended up being taken to the cleaners because we couldn't afford not to sign anyone. Is it Fellaini's fault? Not really. Forget the transfer fee and get on with it.
Fair enough. I'll make no bones about the fact that I haven't rated him too highly. But in his first two games he did show that he can be useful by being a very tidy player, especially in terms of being effective with the ball and helping us in possession. Also it did look like he'd help Carrick defensively quite a bit which in turn would allow more freedom to the front four, so I warmed up to him quite a bit. I won't go into the Donetsk game because anyone can have an off night.
One thing that has caught me totally by surprise though is that pretty much since his first game he's looked very slow and immobile. I don't know if he's always been like this, but it is very concerning. If that aspect of his game doesn't pick up significantly, he won't make it here. Someone compared him to Gibson and while the overall comparison is harsh, in terms of mobility I see some similarities.
I am still undecided on Fellaini. Didn't rate him too much in the past but he has shown some signs of a decent partnership with Carrick. Overall though he needs to improve certain aspects of his game to be really a top quality player.
2006, when we signed Carrick, was a very different time and I don't think he had some of the qualities he's become renowned for over the years he's been here as he has changed his game quite a bit since then.
And questioning the Scholes-Carrick partnership, was, I feel, completely justified as the Scholes we thought he was coming to play alongisde was the goal-getting version, not the deeper-lying, hardly scoring version he re-invented himself as - at that time, Scholes (the re-invented version) was more the reason the partnership worked than Carrick was, imo. The deep-lying version of Scholes (as opposed to the one who wanted to ghost into the box and score goals) was a Godsend for that version of Michael Carrick and made his first few years here as comfortable as they could possibly be. I think it's only in the last few years Carrick has actually stepped out of Scholes' shadow and it's no coincidence his performances have become more lauded over the last couple of years as his game has gone up a level.
I don't think many people questioned Carrick's actual ability (certainly when compared to Fellaini, who many more United fans simply don't rate) but rather the fee and the likelihood he could play with the box-to-box version of Paul Scholes in a two-man midfield.
And questioning the Scholes-Carrick partnership, was, I feel, completely justified as the Scholes we thought he was coming to play alongisde was the goal-getting version, not the deeper-lying, hardly scoring version he re-invented himself as - at that time, Scholes (the re-invented version) was more the reason the partnership worked than Carrick was, imo. The deep-lying version of Scholes (as opposed to the one who wanted to ghost into the box and score goals) was a Godsend for that version of Michael Carrick and made his first few years here as comfortable as they could possibly be. I think it's only in the last few years Carrick has actually stepped out of Scholes' shadow and it's no coincidence his performances have become more lauded over the last couple of years as his game has gone up a level.
I don't think many people questioned Carrick's actual ability (certainly when compared to Fellaini, who many more United fans simply don't rate) but rather the fee and the likelihood he could play with the box-to-box version of Paul Scholes in a two-man midfield.
Fantastic news if true.
I thought at the time that they had got the Ruud & Carrick prices the wrong way round. We gave Ruud away & Carrick was a bit on the pricey side.
But you do, I don't think I've ever seen you have something positive to say.
you're a nice guy, unassuming and objective United fan
That's positive isn't it?
Seriously I tend to focus more on what needs to be done rather then act as a top red however you'll find plenty of positive posts if you make a search
For every Carrick there is a Bebe.
And the opposition to Carrick wasn't that bad, he had a great debut season covering for Scholes in midfield. If I recall correctly he won MOTM against Chelsea at Old Trafford that season. He hit the ground running, unlike...
And the opposition to Carrick wasn't that bad, he had a great debut season covering for Scholes in midfield. If I recall correctly he won MOTM against Chelsea at Old Trafford that season. He hit the ground running, unlike...
Of course he's going to be here in 3 years. We don't write players off easily.
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