Shinji Kagawa

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Another nothing performance in his best position. I'm all for using him as bait in any Reus/Gundogan/Bender deal.
 
Harsh game to judge him in, really. Circumstances not ideal to fit into the side.

I'd start him for both games in the league cup semi as the 10 but Moyes seems to be intent on playing his strongest side there.
 
The worrying thing for me is he show's no confidence in himself at all, and the fact he doesn't even remember how to shoot is very concerning.

I admire that he tries a delicate pass and would rather share the glory, but sometimes you have to shoot. Twice against Norwich he could have pulled the trigger and tried an almost impossible pass - he was not like this at dortmund, he scored quite a few goals!. He need's to get back to that form or he is a goner.
 
I just wish he'd be a bit more ballsy. I can see what he wants to do at times...but its very uninspiring.

He and Hernandez couldn't beat the offside trap (though one was called offside wrongly) and he offered very little elsewhere. There were one or two opportunities where a hungry player would've taken a shot at goal...but he chose to pass. I never expect 25 yard screamers from him but take one or two risks Shinji!
 
My main gripe with him is if he gets in the position to really run at his man in a wide position or on a counter, he hardly ever really goes for it and just sort of ambles forward ultimately slowing us down again. I get taking on players isn't really his game, but he often does it with 10-15 yards of space to run into and I'm lefting shouting "Run, fecking run!" as the opposition re-group.

He is one of our better players in the final third when central though, I think its just the fact we aren't really a team built to attack through the middle which makes him look a bit anonymous at times. No doubting he is quality, just not sure he will ever fit into our system to be utilised or be as effective as his Dortmund days.
 
I didn't think he was that bad, but I expected better. Here are some of his best moments in the game:

 
My observation of Kagawa so far.

Looks classy on the ball without really being good or effective for the team.

Not sure that makes any sense.
 
Sultan said:
My observation of Kagawa so far.

Looks classy on the ball without really being good or effective for the team.

Not sure that makes any sense.
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Yeah I feel the same way. He's technically very good, and rarely does anything sloppy, but he seems so conservative that he never really affects the game. I'm really annoyed, when we signed him, I kept going on about how he'd be one of our most important signings for years to come along with De Gea, but more and more it looks like it's not meant to be.
 
Has fantastic touch, and with that creates time and space. That's where it ends!
 
Sultan said:
My observation of Kagawa so far.

Looks classy on the ball without really being good or effective for the team.

Not sure that makes any sense.
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I can't believe he was a component of Klopp's high pressing up at Dortmund, he just looks lethargic and half a yard slow for us, seems to lack any intensity on the ball too if that makes sense. Want to see more drive and energy from him.
 
Like the guy, but we don't suit him. He needs to go to rekindle his career - he deserves that. When a player of Rooney's caliber is playing in his favourite position, then he really should pack up and go. I'd love to use him in a deal with Dortmund to take Reus/Gundogan from them - I'm sure they'd genuinely welcome him with open arms.
 
At the end of the day if he wants to seriously stake his claim in the side and command a place he needs to perform when given the opportunity and today was another example of when he hasn't imposed himself on a game when we really needed him to.
 
Had one good spell in the second half when he was dropping deep and getting plenty of the ball - he seems to lack the confidence to do this regularly enough in games and you have to wonder does he have what it takes to be a top number 10 for United

Moyes has given him plenty of opportunities - he has rarely taken them
 
He's got little or no urgency in his game.

He needs to take his chances when he gets them. At this rate we'll never see the best of him and it's time to stop blaming the circumstances.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Harsh game to judge him in, really. Circumstances not ideal to fit into the side.

I'd start him for both games in the league cup semi as the 10 but Moyes seems to be intent on playing his strongest side there.
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To be honest, how often have people said that? It's always "tough opponents. Game too physical" etc. it seems. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Kagawa succeed here - I love watching players like him - but eventually the excuses will have to stop. He's been at United for a year and a half now and although his chances have been somewhat limited and often out of position you just have to say that he's simply not grabbed the chance often enough. The fact is that he's simply failing to impress again and again. I'm not saying we should give up on him, because he's clearly a talented player, but something needs to happen. Look at how long it took players like Silva, Mata, Oscar, Coutinho etc. to settle in the league. He should be getting used to the PL by now, and even if the wing isn't his best position that's not an excuse for the many poor performances he's had there.

Something that annoys me greatly when he plays is how casual he is close to our own area. I don't have any specific examples, but I've been shitting myself several times because he played a weak pass infield or got tackled when trying to dribble in a dangerous spot. Playing it out of defence is of course ideal, but he seems to do it too risky quite often.
 
Wowi said:
To be honest, how often have people said that? It's always "tough opponents. Game too physical" etc. it seems. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Kagawa succeed here - I love watching players like him - but eventually the excuses will have to stop. He's been at United for a year and a half now and although his chances have been somewhat limited and often out of position you just have to say that he's simply not grabbed the chance often enough. The fact is that he's simply failing to impress again and again. I'm not saying we should give up on him, because he's clearly a talented player, but something needs to happen. Look at how long it took players like Silva, Mata, Oscar, Coutinho etc. to settle in the league. He should be getting used to the PL by now, and even if the wing isn't his best position that's not an excuse for the many poor performances he's had there.

Something that annoys me greatly when he plays is how casual he is close to our own area. I don't have any specific examples, but I've been shitting myself several times because he played a weak pass infield or got tackled when trying to dribble in a dangerous spot. Playing it out of defence is of course ideal, but he seems to do it too risky quite often.
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Exactly. This is the PL, get used to it. The likes of Silva and Mata have proved that you don't have to be a physical beast to shine in this league, IF you are good enough then you will succeed regardless.

I think Kagawa is a great player, in fact I know he's a great player because I've seen him do it at Dortmund. He just hasn't done it here, for whatever reason. He's had chances to show what he's about but he just doesn't grab it with urgency. He's just far, far too laid back and lackadaisical for my liking. He never forces the issue and imposes himself on a game. He needs to be playing every game like his life depends on it, because at this club you get found out pretty quickly if you aren't up to it. I originally thought Moyes didn't fancy him, but he's given him enough chances now and he just isn't showing it.
 
He's just become a bit 'meh'. Looks classy at times, and does pretty things. But ultimately doesn't really contribute anything meaningful.

I don't really understand what's happened to him. Looks a shadow of the player we've seen in the past.
 
It may be another Veron. In theory it should be a dream fit but in practice it doesn't quite work.

From everything I've read up about Moyes, he likes his attacking players to be energetic, fluid and able to cover a lot of ground. The likes of Welbeck, Rooney and Januzaj seem very Moyes-esque players. Kagawa for me doesn't quite fit into that mold. He's more a player you have to build your team around IMO.
 
He's starting to remind me of Berbatov, where they know they are fecking class and figure that everything else will fall into place because they're more naturally gifted than the majority of the squad. Then they wonder why they are on the bench more often than not. Yes he's been asked to play in his not favoured role, but someone as talented as he is should be able to make it work. Moyes has in fact given him opportunities and he has done well in a couple games, but he hasn't really seized his opportunities and made it a difficult choice for Moyes to decide between him and Rooney like Danny Welbeck has since RVP's injury.
 
manutddjw said:
He's starting to remind me of Berbatov, where they know they are fecking class and figure that everything else will fall into place because they're more naturally gifted than the majority of the squad. Then they wonder why they are on the bench more often than not. Yes he's been asked to play in his not favoured role, but someone as talented as he is should be able to make it work. Moyes has in fact given him opportunities and he has done well in a couple games, but he hasn't really seized his opportunities and made it a difficult choice for Moyes to decide between him and Rooney like Danny Welbeck has since RVP's injury.
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He just isn't suited to our play at all. Like all #10's, he needs plenty of movement from team mates and midfielders behind him who can get him the ball in positions where he can hurt the opposition. He doesn't have the at United. It's pointless saying another poor performance, or hoping he can get better after a few signs when he just isn't suited to us. Shit happens, he's a class player and would thrive at a team like Arsenal like he did at Dortmund, but United is pretty much anti-Kagawa, especially when he plays out wide.
I don't think any traditional number 10 would play well at United really. Rooney can make it work because of how much work he puts in, and how he's capable of performing brilliantly all over the pitch, but Ozil, Kagawa, Silva, etc., would all be ineffective for the most part at United.
 
bosnian_red said:
He just isn't suited to our play at all. Like all #10's, he needs plenty of movement from team mates and midfielders behind him who can get him the ball in positions where he can hurt the opposition. He doesn't have the at United. It's pointless saying another poor performance, or hoping he can get better after a few signs when he just isn't suited to us. Shit happens, he's a class player and would thrive at a team like Arsenal like he did at Dortmund, but United is pretty much anti-Kagawa, especially when he plays out wide.
I don't think any traditional number 10 would play well at United really. Rooney can make it work because of how much work he puts in, and how he's capable of performing brilliantly all over the pitch, but Ozil, Kagawa, Silva, etc., would all be ineffective for the most part at United.
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That says more about Manchester United.
 
pocco said:
I don't buy any of that for a second. The likes of Ozil and Silva are just better than Kagawa and would no doubt do well here. This is just the latest in a long line of excuses made for Kagawa.
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It's not an excuse. It applies to Kagawa, but players like Veron, Berbatov, have suffered in the past. RVP, Hernandez, Cleverley, Nani... all are being stifled by the system. I'm typing from my phone so forgive my brevity. I don't think Ozil or Silva, or any orthodox number 10 would do well at United. The sooner we realize this and stop putting square pegs in round holes, the better it will be.
 
I wish he'd pull the trigger more often.
 
pocco said:
I don't buy any of that for a second. The likes of Ozil and Silva are just better than Kagawa and would no doubt do well here. This is just the latest in a long line of excuses made for Kagawa.
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It's not a new excuse, it's been said countless times before by people who have watched him before, like other #10's and can tell that they require movement around them and service into their feet higher up the pitch. It's not that difficult of a concept really. Silva and Ozil have had plenty of games over the years where they have been completely ineffective when faced against opposition who stifles their teams, not providing them service. Silva for example has been ineffective in pretty much half of his time in the premier league because City have been pretty inconsistent with their play, but now is looking very good again under Pellegrini because he has City playing a very fluid style and at a high tempo. Kagawa was brilliant for Dortmund because they play at a much quicker pace then we do, and their whole front 4 move around constantly, and they have a quality midfield behind them.

It's no wonder that our wingers and the attacking mids we've had have been largely shit for the last few years, during which time we've had this zombie football, a shite midfield who can't provide good service to those further up the pitch.
It's a bit weird that there are so many people like you who probably get delighted to see him fail and have poor performances because you think it's proving you right. He's a United player after all, and is a quality player, so wouldn't you want him to do well because him at his best would improve our play all around?
 
I echo those saying the likes of Ozil would not get as many assists as he's getting playing for United than for Arsenal. And I don't think signing this world class midfielder will solve all our problems as the problem is our basic team play like not being to pass a ball 5 yards for more than 5 passes in a row, constantly looking for the pass out wide and long balls upfield. I still think if Kagawa was at Arsenal a lot of people would be shouting to sign him.
 
Mel_F said:
I echo those saying the likes of Ozil would not get as many assists as he's getting playing for United than for Arsenal. And I don't think signing this world class midfielder will solve all our problems as the problem is our basic team play like not being to pass a ball 5 yards for more than 5 passes in a row, constantly looking for the pass out wide and long balls upfield. I still think if Kagawa was at Arsenal a lot of people would be shouting to sign him.
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Completely agree. We've got one huge thread titled "Zombie football" for a reason. Kagawa will not fit in here but he's the type we should want to build our team around. Whether it's actually him or not is irrelevant. Right now we've got Rooney making our team seem much better than it is and that's not good enough.
 
Our team play is shit all round. Like many have said, putbin an ozil or silva in our side and they wont be good as well. These type of players need movement around them to make things happen and our team play is far to static. If you put kagawa into that arsenal or city or even liverpools current system, he'd shine.
 
Sultan said:
My observation of Kagawa so far.

Looks classy on the ball without really being good or effective for the team.

Not sure that makes any sense.
Click to expand...
Spot on.

He always looks good on the ball and keeps it well and us ticking, but simply doesn't affect the game enough.

There was this one move where he was at the heart of some lovely short passing. It's as if he needs everyone playing a very specific type of short passing football for him to excel and he doesn't have the individuality to shine outside that. I'm starting to feel that he's never going to suit united.
 
Freak said:
Our team play is shit all round. Like many have said, putbin an ozil or silva in our side and they wont be good as well. These type of players need movement around them to make things happen and our team play is far to static. If you put kagawa into that arsenal or city or even liverpools current system, he'd shine.
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I really dont think he would though, he gets pushed of the ball far to easily never takes on a player, he cant seem to do what Nasri does for example. And as far as United goes Rooney is miles better than him in the 10 position and I would rather see Adnan Welbeck or Young currently in the other positions so his future for us is a question. He just simply never looks dangerous and hasnt had any impact on any of the games he has played so far even against easier oppositions. Rooney Adnan Welbeck and even Young offer so much more at the moment.
 
He probably would shine at Liverpool. Their slick short pass and move game would suit him to the tee.

But he's at united and not Liverpool and it's becoming harder and harder to see him making it.
 
And Liverpool are above us in the table, playing attractive football, while we are time wasting for the final 15 minutes at Norwich. I'm not proclaiming Kagawa a savior or anything, but even if he, Hernandez, Nani et al leave, we'll be left with a useless system, without the right personnel to turn things around.

But what do I know?
 
UnofficialDevil said:
I really dont think he would though, he gets pushed of the ball far to easily never takes on a player, he cant seem to do what Nasri does for example. And as far as United goes Rooney is miles better than him in the 10 position and I would rather see Adnan Welbeck or Young currently in the other positions so his future for us is a question. He just simply never looks dangerous and hasnt had any impact on any of the games he has played so far even against easier oppositions. Rooney Adnan Welbeck and even Young offer so much more at the moment.
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He's a player that needs movement around him. He doesnt need strength as hes a quick pass-move-counterattack type of player. The reason why januzaj and welbeck look better than him is because they have good drbbling ability to take them out of tight situations when our other players are too static to recieve a pass, unlike shinji. City or arsenal have lots of movement when they attack hence whey he'll shine in those systems.
 
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