This could work really nicely and we have the player for that. But you need the right manager to implement that system - Pep did it at Bayern but I doubt it is something in Moyes book
Shinji Kagawa
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This is why I love going into the Kagawa. It's like visits into an alternate dimension.
If I had said this in the summer of 2012, I don't think you'd have found it so ridiculous. He is clearly the sort of player that could fit into that style, especially as Sanchez & Pedro can (both regular starters, both lesser players than Kagawa prior to him joining United).
Edit: For the record, i'm not saying he's as good as Neymar. Nowhere near. I'm just saying if he played for them, they would accommodate for him.
If he played for them, He'd be backup behind Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas.
And anyone would have said the same in 2012 as well.
Sadly
If he played for them, he wouldn't be competing with Xavi (a central midfielder). He'd either be eased in as Iniesta ages in the attacking midfielder role, or more likely (as Fabregas will obviously be the first choice midfielder later on), as a direct upgrade of Pedro/Sanchez in one of the 2 wide forward spots, while Neymar occupied the other one. It's really not as silly as you are making it out to be, considering he is more of a forward than a midfielder. Either way, it's not like i'm saying he's going, just that if he went, he'd fit very well into the system.
The more fluid the style, the more versatile Kagawa gets. In that sense, you're both correct.
In Barcelona, Kagawa would be able to play in 4 different positions. As a left/right forward or as a central midfielder(granted it's not the DM position). Levir Culpi said that the team that fits Kagawa the best, is Barcelona. And he is probably the man that knows Kagawa the best.
In Barcelona, Kagawa would be able to play in 4 different positions. As a left/right forward or as a central midfielder(granted it's not the DM position). Levir Culpi said that the team that fits Kagawa the best, is Barcelona. And he is probably the man that knows Kagawa the best.
Thats pretty good for both players.
Tackles per game
Yaya - 1.6
Mata - 1.4
Silva - 1.2
Kagawa - 1.1
Ozil - 0.9
Hazard - 0.8
Don't know why only Mata gets a bed rep for his defensive work. I blame it on Mourinho apologists. To me its clear Mourinho let go of Mata because of his lack of athleticism, nothing to do with his defensive work.
He isn't forward enough to be competing with someone like Sanchez. He'd be warming the bench.
Here are some stats to make you moist
Arturo Vidal 2013/14
Games 20 (20
Goals 11
Assists 5
Key passes 1.9 p/g
Tackles 4.6 p/g
Interceptions 1.2 p/g
Makes Yaya look like the lumbering sack of shit that he is.
Arturo Vidal 2013/14
Games 20 (20
Goals 11
Assists 5
Key passes 1.9 p/g
Tackles 4.6 p/g
Interceptions 1.2 p/g
Makes Yaya look like the lumbering sack of shit that he is.
In his time at Borussia Dortmund, he played behind the striker - that's as forward as it gets without being the striker himself, and the same can be side about the two wide forwards (who are not wingers at Barca, but wide forwards) that a system like Barca's has. For Japan, he plays as a wide forward (Honda plays in the middle). He won't offer the same penetration as Sanchez and would be a bit deeper, true (he'd be supplying, as opposed to getting on the end of things), but they would surely play a superior player in a slightly different position than play an inferior player just for the sake of keeping things the same. I believe that of Messi, Neymar, Kagawa, Sanchez & Pedro, he'd be third choice - there are three spots up for grabs, & it's not so outlandish to claim he would be picked ahead of Pedro or Sanchez for that last spot in the 3.
zero chance. ZERO.
He isnt forward enough?
Problem came from the off - signing RVP and him in the same window was always going to be tricky to accommodate them both.
Rooney was on his way out by that time... so the signing did make perfect sense.
The thing it was all Sir Alex plan, not Moyes plan.
I think he means proactive for lack of a better word and I would agree with it. Kagawa needs to have more confidence in himself.
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I agree with the confidence bit. What do you mean by isnt proactive? Doesnt take enough responsibility? If so, I'd say his game revolves around a good setup with lots of movement. Barca would be fantastic for him. They were interested too right? Apparently he turned both the Spanish giants down to come here.
I agree with the confidence bit. What do you mean by isnt proactive? Doesnt take enough responsibility? If so, I'd say his game revolves around a good setup with lots of movement. Barca would be fantastic for him. They were interested too right? Apparently he turned both the Spanish giants down to come here.
christ. Meant word obviously.I'd like to see him have more shots for a start cutting in from the left. When his routine of passing and moving is not working (and it won't with the way we play) he should try and mix it up.
I'd like to see him have more shots for a start cutting in from the left. When his routine of passing and moving is not working (and it won't with the way we play) he should try and mix it up.
Yup, agree with that. He has to accept we're different and adapt. He's self critical too which is a good sign as it means he's striving to improve. Hopefully he starts doing that.
Its disappointing that he's not been at his best for us. My opinion is its both a combination of our style of play and Kagawa's personality means he is not one to impose himself on a team. Both of which could be related. If he'd gone to Arsenal, we'd be complaining why Ferguson did not snap him up at the price he was available for. Could certainly see him being mentioned in one of those "zombie passing" threads moaning why we didn't get him if he'd gone there.
Those are very impressive stats indeed.
Seriously? No chance of Kagawa being played ahead of Pedro or Sanchez, had Barca signed him in 2012 instead of us? He was generally accepted as the best player in the Bundesliga at that time, alongside Lewandowski & maybe Reus. Pedro doesn't get many games for his country while Alexis still hasn't shown his Udinese form at Barca (partly not his fault, as he is there to accommodate Messi) while Messi is in the team.
The only position where he could play for this Barcelona, is in the Iniesta position, where he would be quite down in the pecking order, after Iniesta and Fabregas.
their wingers (or wide forwards) are forced to do a lot hard work. Can't see Kagawa running down his line to his own box like Alexis does, tackling and marking, and running 40 meters up for a counter attack. He just doesn't have that in him. Different set of attributes.
In Dourtmound it was different. And would be different in teams like Manchester City, where their attacking midfielders doesnt have to do much dirty job, because they have a Fernandinho/Toure midfield doing it for them.
That is fair enough, admittedly I didn't think about how it would work without the ball. Perhaps due to the system you mention that Barca use right now, he would indeed not be such a good fit, on second thoughts. He isn't lazy by any means, but Alexis and Pedro do more than the average forward's work at the back. All that having been said, I think overall he is a superior player to both Alexis and Pedro, when all 3 are on top of their game (Kagawa's dortmund form we are talking, here).
Great reasoning there, thanks. Perhaps I am wrong about him fitting into Barca's side, but we're acting like Kagawa is a pub player while Alexis and Pedro are world beaters - the only time Alexis has actually shown his top form in a Barca shirt was during Messi's absence, and even then, Kagawa at his best (his 11/12 season) was the better player. Both are better players than Pedro in my opinion, but Pedro is probably the most well-suited to Barca in terms of style and discipline.
Levir Culpi, coach for Cerezo Osaka:
"Kagawa's greatest strength by far is his movement. He never stops running, and he's always putting himself in good positions. I have to admit I was a bit disappointed when he signed for United. I think that Barcelona is the best fit for Kagawa"
Alberto Zaccheroni, coach for Japan:
"To me, Kagawa's greatest strength lies in his "quickness of thought". What I mean with this, is his ability to always make the right choice quickly whenever he receives the ball. The way he stops the ball and turns the next move into something special, is something very few players can match. This is a great weapon in attack, because he'll often pick out a goal or an assist or create a chance that leads to a goal."
Jürgen Klopp, coach for Borussia Dortmund:
"One of the best players in the world. He's an offensive midfielder with one of the best noses for goal I ever saw."
Sir Alex Ferguson, best coach in history:
"The lad's had a good year, and I expect him to be even better next season."
David Moyes, current United "coach":
"He ate too much, so he had to get his stomach pumped"
"Kagawa's greatest strength by far is his movement. He never stops running, and he's always putting himself in good positions. I have to admit I was a bit disappointed when he signed for United. I think that Barcelona is the best fit for Kagawa"
Alberto Zaccheroni, coach for Japan:
"To me, Kagawa's greatest strength lies in his "quickness of thought". What I mean with this, is his ability to always make the right choice quickly whenever he receives the ball. The way he stops the ball and turns the next move into something special, is something very few players can match. This is a great weapon in attack, because he'll often pick out a goal or an assist or create a chance that leads to a goal."
Jürgen Klopp, coach for Borussia Dortmund:
"One of the best players in the world. He's an offensive midfielder with one of the best noses for goal I ever saw."
Sir Alex Ferguson, best coach in history:
"The lad's had a good year, and I expect him to be even better next season."
David Moyes, current United "coach":
"He ate too much, so he had to get his stomach pumped"
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So, Moyes is at fault for Kagawa stuffing himself...
So, Moyes is at fault for Kagawa stuffing himself...
The point was rather to highlight the difference between Kagawa under Moyes and the other 4 coaches
Also, Kagawa clearly didn't stuff himself to the point where he had to get pumped. It was a blatant lie by Moyes. Whatever happened to Kagawa, he was not sent to the hospital to get pumped for over-eating. First of all, I don't think that even is possible. Secondly, Kagawa denied this to the Japanese media, if I'm not mistaken. My guess is that it was some sort of panic attack, and Moyes tried to cover it up. The last thing he needs is a young and promising player that the former coach rated having panic attacks in a season where he's not only failed miserably at his task, but also consistently benched said player.
Those Vidal stats are ridiculous. 
I'd take Pedro over Kagawa easily. Same in 2012.
Not enough of a forward I mean. Players like Sanchez and Pedro are meant to be direct runners. Kagawa is not that.
Kagawa is an inferior player to Sanchez anyway.
Love the quotes. He's a great talent, seemingly underutilised, and not rated by Moyes. I'm far from in the Moyes haters brigade, but it does baffle me as to why he's failed to get a tune out of this fiddle.It's not really that baffling. Kagawa thrives in a team that plays with a lot of players in the central attacking area, fast paced and relies on collective pressing. Given that neither of those points applies to United it was obvious that he wouldn't be able to simply reproduce his perfomances for Dortmund (I (and I think a couple of other German posters) said as much when he signed). Add to that the fact that he rarely gets to play his best position and that Moyes does not seem to trust him at all and the whole thing is no mystery at all.
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Yeah, he's just not a good fit for this side. I don't understand why people are quick to blame him or Moyes for it, these things happen, as we've seen with Berbatov and Veron in the past.
Unless there is an overhaul of the way we play, which is unlikely, then it is best for all parties involved if Kagawa was sold in the summer.
Unless there is an overhaul of the way we play, which is unlikely, then it is best for all parties involved if Kagawa was sold in the summer.
Logic and tactical understanding will bring you a lot of hatred in these dark parts of the forum.
Better just nod your head in agreement how the premier league is too good for Kagawa so he was never really that good. Or why not just pick the "He just can't replicate his level of Germany for unknown reasons."
On a serious note I of course agree with you, I think it is extremely simple and always was. Kagawa is very reliant on a certain tactic both in the offense(Fluid, pass&move football) and high pressing in the defense.
It is no stretch to say United is the top-team that plays least fluid and relies least on pressure in the defense.
There is only 1 problem with Kagawa. He does not fit our system. Scholes in the England team is probably the best possible example to use. Arguably one of the best midfielders in the world, shunted out to the left to ensure Super Frank and Stevie G got played, failed to make any real impact for England. It is safe to say England would have been a more solid unit playing with Scholes as the holding player. The same can be said of Kagawa. Instead of being played as the No. 10 with Welbeck and Chica when Rooney and RVP are out, he should be given at least 1 game at the No. 10 role with the fully operation side.
Moyes wants everything to go down the wings. There's no place in his plans for a player like Kagawa.
My only problem with it is that our style of play is complete shit and we now have a few players who could change that, Adnan, Kagawa, Mata, Rooney and RVP but we're going to see Young and Valencia and the ball pushed out to the wings every game.
Kagawa and Mata offer a different, more modern opportunity.
If you actually read this thread you'd see that's what most people have been saying all along.
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