Shinji Kagawa

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AlwaysRedwood said:
My only problem with it is that our style of play is complete shit
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This is essentially what makes the Kagawa(and Mata from now?) situation unbearable to me. If we at least played good football and won game after game in our current style, then it would have made at least a little sense to keep Kagawa out of the team. But we suck.

At least 80% of the good football we've played this season, has been with Kagawa on the field, often pulling the strings. I don't understand how Moyes could ignore that, unless he's an overly defensive coach who lacks the mentality of a winner... Oh wait...

AlwaysRedwood said:
Kagawa and Mata offer a different, more modern opportunity.
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Hopefully we'll let them both feature a lot, mainly in the AM role. But watch Moyes f-ck it up...
 
I'd stick him in the middle behind RvP against Fulham, Rooney and Mata either side and tell them to play narrow. fullbacks can provide the width.

Would push back their midfield providing our midfield and Defence with some relief. Their fullbacks wouldn't dare push up with that threat
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
ha!
I have Kagawa alongside Carrick, Nani, Rooney and Mata behind the Dutch master and we are steam rolling the league.,
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4-2-3-1? Must try that. I keep trying different formations but I'm getting well fecked off with it. Had it since Chrimbo, played 46 games, won two of them. I think my disc might be bent.
 
You know sometimes at work you have to work with really stupid people? You're on a much better than them, and no matter how much you try, the feckwits will remain as shit as ever around you.

That is how Shinji feels when he is playing for us
 
Just fecking play Shinji, Mata and Rooney in a fluid three behind RVP. It really isn't that complicated. The idea that Shinji and Mata somehow cease to exist when we don't have the ball is a horrendously overplayed myth, and playing those two will result in us keeping much more possession. Thus less need for defending in any case.

And its not like that's just the opinion of an idiot on the Internet either. Imagine for one glorious moment that Klopp, Wenger or Guardiola was manager, is there one person who thinks they would persist with Young and Valencia on the wings for their supposed defensive attributes?
 
Tibs said:
You know sometimes at work you have to work with really stupid people? You're on a much better than them, and no matter how much you try, the fcukwits will remain as shit as ever around you.

That is how Shinji feels when he is playing for us
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Top players are able to stand out in any conditions, who he's playing with shouldn't really be an excuse. Mata has looked the part straight away, and has two assists to boot.

Kagawa will need to come out of his shell and prove that he's the player that everybody presumes he is, but I'm not sure if he will at this stage.
 
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Mad Winger said:
Levir Culpi, coach for Cerezo Osaka:
"Kagawa's greatest strength by far is his movement. He never stops running, and he's always putting himself in good positions. I have to admit I was a bit disappointed when he signed for United. I think that Barcelona is the best fit for Kagawa"

Alberto Zaccheroni, coach for Japan:
"To me, Kagawa's greatest strength lies in his "quickness of thought". What I mean with this, is his ability to always make the right choice quickly whenever he receives the ball. The way he stops the ball and turns the next move into something special, is something very few players can match. This is a great weapon in attack, because he'll often pick out a goal or an assist or create a chance that leads to a goal."
Jürgen Klopp, coach for Borussia Dortmund:
"One of the best players in the world. He's an offensive midfielder with one of the best noses for goal I ever saw."


Sir Alex Ferguson, best coach in history:
"The lad's had a good year, and I expect him to be even better next season."


David Moyes, current United "coach":
"He ate too much, so he had to get his stomach pumped"
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:lol::lol::lol:
Leisurely reading through those quotes and wasn't expecting that at the end!
 
Mad Winger said:
Levir Culpi, coach for Cerezo Osaka:
"Kagawa's greatest strength by far is his movement. He never stops running, and he's always putting himself in good positions. I have to admit I was a bit disappointed when he signed for United. I think that Barcelona is the best fit for Kagawa"


Alberto Zaccheroni, coach for Japan:
"To me, Kagawa's greatest strength lies in his "quickness of thought". What I mean with this, is his ability to always make the right choice quickly whenever he receives the ball. The way he stops the ball and turns the next move into something special, is something very few players can match. This is a great weapon in attack, because he'll often pick out a goal or an assist or create a chance that leads to a goal."


Jürgen Klopp, coach for Borussia Dortmund:
"One of the best players in the world. He's an offensive midfielder with one of the best noses for goal I ever saw."


Sir Alex Ferguson, best coach in history:
"The lad's had a good year, and I expect him to be even better next season."


David Moyes, current United "coach":
"He ate too much, so he had to get his stomach pumped"
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A+ post, would read again.
 
Mad Winger said:
Levir Culpi, coach for Cerezo Osaka:
"Kagawa's greatest strength by far is his movement. He never stops running, and he's always putting himself in good positions. I have to admit I was a bit disappointed when he signed for United. I think that Barcelona is the best fit for Kagawa"


Alberto Zaccheroni, coach for Japan:
"To me, Kagawa's greatest strength lies in his "quickness of thought". What I mean with this, is his ability to always make the right choice quickly whenever he receives the ball. The way he stops the ball and turns the next move into something special, is something very few players can match. This is a great weapon in attack, because he'll often pick out a goal or an assist or create a chance that leads to a goal."


Jürgen Klopp, coach for Borussia Dortmund:
"One of the best players in the world. He's an offensive midfielder with one of the best noses for goal I ever saw."


Sir Alex Ferguson, best coach in history:
"The lad's had a good year, and I expect him to be even better next season."


David Moyes, current United "coach":
"He ate too much, so he had to get his stomach pumped"
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:lol:
 
Would love to see him play some part today - but would not hold my breath.

I just want to see him, Mata, Rooney and RvP on the pitch at least once, so we know if it works or not...
 
paceme said:
I'd take Pedro over Kagawa easily. Same in 2012.
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Pedro would be such a huge waste in our system though. All his best qualities like movement, quick exchanges etc would be totally wasted here. Forget about someone like Kagawa, I wouldnt even want him here for 15mil, that's how sure I am that he'd totally bomb here.

B20 said:
Not enough of a forward I mean. Players like Sanchez and Pedro are meant to be direct runners. Kagawa is not that.

Kagawa is an inferior player to Sanchez anyway.
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Cant agree with that. He was as much of a forward as they come without being the striker at Dortmund. He scored plenty and assisted plenty too. Played just behind the striker. He has had to play a different role for us due to Rooney. Kagawa though is more of a provider than the one that gets to the end of things unlike Pedro and to an extent Sanchez.

REgarding the SAnchez debate, I read he's progressed a lot this season while Kagawa has gone backwards but given a choice between Kagawa at Dortmund and Sanchez then, I'd say it'd be very close with Kagawa maybe shading it when it came to the better fit at Barca. For us though, Sanchez for sure. He'd be better suited to how we play.
 
MoBeats said:
4-2-3-1? Must try that. I keep trying different formations but I'm getting well fcuked off with it. Had it since Chrimbo, played 46 games, won two of them. I think my disc might be bent.
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Yep. 4-2-3-1, with cover defendin, aggressive pressing, short passing, zero defensive width, and 70-75 attacking speed. So far its been ace. 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 had been getting me creamed while 4-3-2-1 wasnt getting me enough goals.
 
Mad Winger said:
Levir Culpi, coach for Cerezo Osaka:
"Kagawa's greatest strength by far is his movement. He never stops running, and he's always putting himself in good positions. I have to admit I was a bit disappointed when he signed for United. I think that Barcelona is the best fit for Kagawa"


Alberto Zaccheroni, coach for Japan:
"To me, Kagawa's greatest strength lies in his "quickness of thought". What I mean with this, is his ability to always make the right choice quickly whenever he receives the ball. The way he stops the ball and turns the next move into something special, is something very few players can match. This is a great weapon in attack, because he'll often pick out a goal or an assist or create a chance that leads to a goal."


Jürgen Klopp, coach for Borussia Dortmund:
"One of the best players in the world. He's an offensive midfielder with one of the best noses for goal I ever saw."


Sir Alex Ferguson, best coach in history:
"The lad's had a good year, and I expect him to be even better next season."


David Moyes, current United "coach":
"He ate too much, so he had to get his stomach pumped"
Click to expand...

Stupid fcuking post. I don't believe for a minute that a massive fanboi like you hasn't read every single article ever written about your idol, so I reckon you're being deliberately misleading by leaving ou this next quote.

Steve Round, appointed assistant manager at Manchester United by David Moyes:

"He’s such an intelligent and creative player that he makes everybody around him play well", Round told his club's site."You can always find him, he always retains the ball, can turn and go forward, is intelligent and his creativity is terrific.

"He’s a really good kid as well. He has a great sense of humour and a tremendous work ethic. There’s never a moment’s problem with him because he’s such a terrific professional."
 
It's a shame to see him wasted like this, once we got Van Persie it made him redundant. He would cope better on the left in a system better suited to his strengths like many have said. But how good is he if he can only play one system?
 
Mad Winger said:
How lovely for Kagawa that the assistant rates him. Sadly Moyes doesn't seem to share that opinion.

So my point still stands, Mr. Poster of the year 2008.
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You had no 'point'. Just an unfunny joke.

Assistant managers and managers are unlikely to have radically different opinions about the same player, are they?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You had no 'point'. Just an unfunny joke
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Oh I had a point. And the point is: all of Kagawa's former coaches rates him highly. Moyes don't, evidently shown by how extremely little faith he's put in Kagawa despite Rooney and RVP being out on lengthy spells.

Pogue Mahone said:
Assistant managers and managers are unlikely to have radically different opinions about the same player, are they?
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Read above. If Moyes rated Kagawa, then he would have played Kagawa.
 
Mad Winger said:
Oh I had a point. And the point is: all of Kagawa's former coaches rates him highly. Moyes don't, evidently shown by how extremely little faith he's put in Kagawa despite Rooney and RVP being out on lengthy spells.



Read above. If Moyes rated Kagawa, then he would have played Kagawa.
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He has played him.

Unfortunately for Kagawa he hasn't shown why he is so highly rated by his coaches (including moyes) when it counts.

You obviously won't agree with this. So intense is your odd obsession with the fcuking bloke. I can live with that.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He has played him.
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7 PL starts in 24 games, despite not being injured and not having to compete with Rooney or RVP. That's just laughable.

Under Fergie, Kagawa was given more than twice as much trust, even when Rooney and RVP were available. That's the big difference. You need playtime in order to succeed. Especially when played out of position. And Moyes' system suits Kagawa even less, so there's that. Kagawa failing to impress this season has more to do with Moyes' system and tactics than Kagawa himself. No way in hell would Kagawa be this anonymous if Fergie still was in charge.

And even if Kagawa hasn't had a good season, he's still been one of our stand out players in the CL group stages, which is the only place where we've actually played good football. One can wonder why Moyes doesn't have the balls to implement the same football to the PL. And as far as potential goes, it's crazy that Young and Valencia are in the lineup ahead of him. And Welbeck in the AM position? Ugh...
 
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datura said:
It's never Kagawa's fault..although in interviews he always seems to be bemoaning his lack of form..really he should be blaming the system, manager etc
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That's hardly the point. The point is other players that are not as good as him and aren't playing any better than him (in some people's opinion, including mine) are getting more chances than he is. In Valencia's case, far more.
 
Mad Winger said:
7 PL starts in 24 games, despite not being injured and not having to compete with Rooney or RVP. That's just laughable.

Under Fergie, Kagawa was given more than twice as much trust, even when Rooney and RVP were available. That's the big difference. You need playtime in order to succeed. Especially when played out of position. And Moyes' system suits Kagawa even less, so there's that. Kagawa failing to impress this season has more to do with Moyes' system and tactics than Kagawa himself. No way in hell would Kagawa be this anonymous if Fergie still was in charge.

And even if Kagawa hasn't had a good season, he's still been one of our stand out players in the CL group stages, which is the only place where we've actually played good football. One can wonder why Moyes doesn't have the balls to implement the same football to the PL. And as far as potential goes, it's crazy that Young and Valencia are in the lineup ahead of him. And Welbeck in the AM position? Ugh...
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He has been injured for a few games hasn't he?
 
Timdbro said:
That's hardly the point. The point is other players that are not as good as him and aren't playing any better than him (in some people's opinion, including mine) are getting more chances than he is. In Valencia's case, far more.
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It is the point when you read the majority of the posts in here making excuses for his lack of impact.

Valencia doesn't even play in the same position so I have no idea why you name him?
 
It's not a simple as Moyes not rating him all that highly - or not giving him a fair amount of chances. We have played poorly too often, with the lack of movement and fluidity we've all been moaning about - and this clearly is of no benefit to Kagawa. But there you are: Januzaj has been able to impress in spite of this. Kagawa simply hasn't. When used in a wide role he has failed to make much of an impact. He has been much better in the No 10 role - but he has been in direct competition with Rooney for that spot.
 
datura said:
It's never Kagawa's fault..although in interviews he always seems to be bemoaning his lack of form..really he should be blaming the system, manager etc
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Kagawa is Japanese. He's always gonna blame himself. I've lived and worked in Japan for several years, and these guys take hierarchy really seriously. The boss is never wrong, no matter what. The evidence that their boss has been wrong can be thrown right in their face, and they'll still somehow try to twist it around and make it their own fault for just not working harder or listening enough to their boss' majestic instructions. If your boss' plan fails, it's always because you didn't perform the task well enough. And even suggesting otherwise, could get you in a world of shit.

This mindset makes up for great teamwork and foot soldiers, but it's horrible if you want strong individuals. That is also essentially why Japan's national team have a tendency to struggle when things don't go their way. They just don't have any individuals who say: "feck it, I'm gonna win us this game on my own".

"As far as teamplay goes, we don't have to worry. It's in our blood to be excellent teamplayers. What we need to win, is for each and every one of us to stand up and give their best individually. We need individualism to win."
- Keisuke Honda before the Confederations Cup.
 
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datura said:
It is the point when you read the majority of the posts in here making excuses for his lack of impact.

Valencia doesn't even play in the same position so I have no idea why you name him?
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Kagawa has been played here either on the left or as the number 10. Valencia playing on the right by default means others who could play on the right (Januzaj, Young, even Welbeck at times) end up on the left or as number 10. That's why i name him.
 
Mad Winger said:
Kagawa is Japanese. He's always gonna blame himself. I've lived and worked in Japan for several years, and these guys take hierarchy really seriously. The boss is never wrong, no matter what. The evidence that their boss has been wrong can be thrown right in their face, and they'll still somehow try to twist it around and make it their own fault for just not working harder or listening enough to their boss' majestic instructions. If your boss' plan fails, it's always because you didn't perform the task well enough. And even suggesting otherwise, could get you in a world of shit.

This mindset makes up for great teamwork and foot soldiers, but it's horrible if you want strong individuals. That is also essentially why Japan's national team have a tendency to struggle when things don't go their way. They just don't have any individuals who say: "fcuk it, I'm gonna win us this game on my own".

"As far as teamplay goes, we don't have to worry. It's in our blood to be excellent teamplayers. What we need to win, is for each and every one of us to stand up and give their best individually. We need individualism to win."
- Keisuke Honda before the Confederations Cup.
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Even if he weren't japanese, though. No matter what a footballer's actually thinking, he can't go around saying "my manager's playing me in the wrong position/system", it won't help his cause.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
It's not a simple as Moyes not rating him all that highly - or not giving him a fair amount of chances. We have played poorly too often, with the lack of movement and fluidity we've all been moaning about - and this clearly is of no benefit to Kagawa. But there you are: Januzaj has been able to impress in spite of this. Kagawa simply hasn't. When used in a wide role he has failed to make much of an impact. He has been much better in the No 10 role - but he has been in direct competition with Rooney for that spot.
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It's of no benefit to anyone.

Of course you'll never hear the Kagawa fanbois talking about how difficult it must be for the likes of Young, Welbeck, Valencia and Rooney to shine without intelligent movement around them.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's of no benefit to anyone.

Of course you'll never hear the Kagawa fanbois talking about how difficult it must be for the likes of Young, Welbeck, Valencia and Rooney to shine without intelligent movement around them.
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Precisely. We have players who have both contributed - and in some cases even managed to shine - to a much greater extent than Kagawa in spite of us having played largely shite football. That has to count for something. I sympathize with Kagawa - that ain't the issue. But he clearly is not a player who will put his mark on a match when the team is struggling. Unlike Rooney or RVP. Or young Adnan.
 
Mad Winger said:
Obviously. But it's no secret that some players thrive more under such circumstances. Do you think that the likes of Valencia, Young and Welbeck would have shone as much as Kagawa in Dortmund or Japan's setup? Never.
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They obviously wouldn't have. Horses for courses and all that - and the latter is, at least partly, precisely Kagawa's problem. But you have to admit that this goes both ways. A lack of versatility is a weakness in a player, no matter how you twist it.
 
datura said:
It is the point when you read the majority of the posts in here making excuses for his lack of impact.
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If you read the majority of post here (other than Mad Winger), you'll know that most just wanted Kagawa get a fair crack of to a fix position, either left wing or CAM. Even when he played well he was given a run. Hows that making excuses?
Valencia doesn't even play in the same position so I have no idea why you name him?
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Performing like shit but still starts most games
 
Chesterlestreet said:
A lack of versatility is a weakness in a player, no matter how you twist it.
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Sure, I'll agree with that. It is a weakness. But it's a "nice" weakness to have. Little movement = bad football. To become anonymous under bad football sort of means that you can never really become the scapegoat. It's "nice" to know that whenever you play badly, then so does the rest of the team.

It's smart to have Kagawa in the lineup regardless of style. Because if we should end up playing good football, then it's nice to have a multiplier in the team, making us even better.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He has played him.

Unfortunately for Kagawa he hasn't shown why he is so highly rated by his coaches (including moyes) when it counts.
t.
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Except the last two games he played in, in which he was all over to motm thread.

Now completely ignored because he hasn't played the next two games. Ah, the old run of form. Are we going to pretend Welbeck or Young, or Valencia would have been benched after finally starting to put it together? Just another glaring example of Moyes lack of man management
 
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