Good post.
Who here hopes United get spanked tonight?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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Good post.
i'll certainly keep you in mind.
OP isn't phrased in a way that is going to induce people to say yes.
But at this point it has to be a consideration, how it's possible to be this shite with the same squad as last year is beyond me.
Performance and results have both been terrible. I mean even if the results were not great, but there was visible improvement in performance or a noticeable change in tactics/philosophy geared for long term the fans would be ok I feel.
As it stands things look very bleak.
But at this point it has to be a consideration, how it's possible to be this shite with the same squad as last year is beyond me.
Performance and results have both been terrible. I mean even if the results were not great, but there was visible improvement in performance or a noticeable change in tactics/philosophy geared for long term the fans would be ok I feel.
As it stands things look very bleak.
That much is certain. If it were phrased in a way that would result in Moyes definitely getting sacked, a good number would have said yes.
I hope we batter them 5-0. And I hope Moyes gets sacked. Best of both worlds.
There's no way I can watch United play and not be desperate for us to win. Something in my mind won't allow it.
There's no way I can watch United play and not be desperate for us to win. Something in my mind won't allow it.
If the op was written by a far more anti-Moyes poster, it would've gotten many more 'yes' responses too, to be fair.
The worst I'd generally get is preferring a loss over a draw if it only prolongs papering over cracks. However, our cracks are universally visible and in no need for highlighting. We are still trying to claw ourselves to fourth. And we might need to enhance the morale by a good level or ten before we go into the CL tie.
I suspect we'll either draw or lose by a goal. I don't think Arsenal will run any circles around us and it'll suit us much better to play them than a team that defends for their lives.
I don't think Moyes is the man to take us forward. But I also don't think a heavy defeat to Arsenal would change anything at the top.
Well the "better" manager can never be guaranteed. Although judging by how poorly rated Moyes is on here it shouldn't be a huge problem, surely?
As for the one result being correlated with an early departure for Moyes, it would certainly help things along. Equally, a good result would probably buy him time. These aren't outlandish claims, surely?
That would be absurdly hypothetical though. Hence I didn't ask that question. There's no way any of us can watch tomorrow's game with an absolute certainty means Moyes is sacked in the morning.
All of us will watch it with the knowledge that a heavy defeat will do serious harm to his prospects though. The heavier the defeat the worse it looks for him. Just ask AVB.
Why would anybody "hope" for anything other than a David Moyes win and him doing well till the end of the season? Even if you are pretty sure you want him replaced, surely the hope would be for him to finish the season well and then be replaced in the summer. Or is there some rule that the club isnt allowed to let go a manager who hasnt lost heavily to Arsenal?
The problem with your formulation is that it completely ignores every other consequence of winning/losing to Arsenal. What about the effect on our form, following it?
I don't want Moyes in for much longer, but an away win v Arsenal would make a pretty big step forward to the possibility of top 4. Getting caned by them would make it nearly impossible, I reckon.
I think a more interesting/telling question would have been, "If we were to lose tomorrow - would you rather lose 1-0 tomorrow or 7/8-0"
In a season where we've wildly underperformed, been knocked out of both domestic cups by January, shown absolutely no discernible or visible indication of progression, and our current run of form reads 3 wins from the last 9 (2 if you discount the loss on penalties to Sunderland), what makes you think a defeat at Arsenal will speed the process up in any way whatsoever?
Likening us to Spurs isn't exactly the most viable comparison, as every noise made by United thus far, no matter how small, has been he's here for the long haul (most recently Fergie's interview with the BBC).
Surely something has to be said for those who, despite believing Moyes isn't the man for the job, think he's going to be here no matter what, in which case no one's being hypocritical or irrational by wanting us to win? If it wasn't said so matter-of-factly - "a heavy defeat against Arsenal will help this process along" - you'd probably have got more people to step up and be honest.
Does anyone really think us getting convincingly beat tomorrow will actually change anything? I don't.
Likening us to Spurs isn't exactly the most viable comparison, as every noise made by United thus far, no matter how small, has been he's here for the long haul (most recently Fergie's interview with the BBC).
Surely something has to be said for those who, despite believing Moyes isn't the man for the job, think he's going to be here no matter what, in which case no one's being hypocritical or irrational by wanting us to win? If it wasn't said so matter-of-factly - "a heavy defeat against Arsenal will help this process along" - you'd probably have got more people to step up and be honest.
Does anyone really think us getting convincingly beat tomorrow will actually change anything? I don't.
Pogue has already stated that isn't the case, it's just a spanking against Arsenal would mean Moyes was closer to being sacked. With that in mind, do you want United to lose their next 10 games 4-0 because surely that means Moyes can't possibly continue? Okay, it turns out the board still won't sack him. We're only on 41 points though, we could still go down, do you want United to lose ALL remaining games and be relegated? Moyes would definitely be sacked then. Before you answer, please remember that if you don't think Moyes is the right man for this job it is irrational to not want United to get relegated.
Oh God, I can just picture PTME outside Old Trafford now, selling t-shirts with "Not wanting Manchester United to be relegated makes you an enemy of the club" on them, they'd have to be big t-shirts though, that's a lot of words.
Isn't the question you asked also hypothetical ? If they are all hypotheticals, why not phrase the OP in a way that would allow people who legitimately want Moyes out to chime in.
I really and truly cannot imagine ANY circumstances in which I would ever want Manchester United to lose a game.
Is this how desperate the anti Moyes brigade has become?
Is this how desperate the anti Moyes brigade has become?
Yeah, if I ever thought a loss was for the best I wouldn't watch. Too weird to watch United play a game where I want us to lose.
Actually, here's another scenario. We've won the league. Playing a dead rubber. If we lose, Liverpool get relegated. I think I'd want us to lose.
Do an anonymous poll.
While I wouldn't actively want to lose, if we did I wouldn't care too much if the silver lining was Moyes taking a closer step to the door.
Then again, I thought defeats against Chelsea and Sunderland would lead to that so a defeat against Arsenal will hardly be the breaking point.
Then again, I thought defeats against Chelsea and Sunderland would lead to that so a defeat against Arsenal will hardly be the breaking point.
I did.
Bloody hell, when I said we could lose every game for the rest of the season and he still wouldn't get sacked it seems I forgot just how badly we were doing. I think if we finish 17th we may just cut our losses, anything more realistic, 7th-10th, he wont be going anywhere.
You think you did, but you're wrong.
What you did was tell people who want Moyes out that they should think a certain way, and then called them irrational for not thinking that way. Oh and also suggested that most people who said they didn't think that way were lying.
Lose one battle in order to win the war.
Yes he did, he thought that would be "absurdly hypothetical", which I disagree with, because 1) I dont think something being extremely hypothetical makes it absurd and 2) if you dont have that link then I agree with the consensus, this is all a bit nonsensical. I suspect a massive thrashing at the hands of Arsenal would spell the end of Moyes but not with any great conviction, not with any conviction at all, actually, and as such it would be insane to want Arsenal to win even if I did want Moyes gone.
Hmm, I wouldn't necessarily 'want' us to lose. But I would probably pick a team featuring Valencia, Young, Fellaini and Buttner.
In that scenario, I think I could watch and actively support the opposition, if just for comedy value. I'd be cursing the ref every time he gave us a decision.
I wouldn't want us to lose if the result is meaningless to the team and if it meant keeping City or Liverpool got screwed by the result in some way.
Well, exactly.
Top 4 finish and there's not a hope in hell of Moyes being sacked in the summer. Probably buy him another transfer window even if we start next season as badly as this one.
I mean, he's already proved he can turn a poor first half of a season round once, right?
A pile of people in the Europa League discussion said they'd prefer not to qualify or that they'd play weakened teams if we did.
There was that game at Anfield few years back against Chelsea where this was discussed a lot. I think most Liverpool fans were happy with that loss and most United fans would have felt the same if it meant stopping Liverpool from winning the league.
I would go so far as to buy the opposition kit and learn a few of their songs in that scenario.
I never want United to lose, and the result of this match is irrelevant when it comes to assessing if Moyes should stay on as manager. Even if we win 100-0, Moyes is still the wrong man for the job. The sooner he's gone, the better. There is still time to salvage this season, but a change must be made.
Always want United to win. Would prefer if they did it playing football instead of some sort of parody of it.
I sure as hell don't want us to lose. I think we will though. Similarly I really want Moyes to pull a rabbit out of the hat and succeed here. But I don't think he will.
I don't know, if we won 100-0, my head might be turned a bit...
If we converted all our crosses v Fulham we would have score 80 odd goals.
The problem with the question is Arsenal are heavily favored to beat us, so Moyes simply will not get sacked even if we lost 11-0 and Sczezny scores off an overhead kick off a right-footed Wilshere rabona cross.
10 days after the butchering at the Emirates, and it could well be a butchering, we will face Crystal Palace at Selhurst Park. This, after a lovely getaway at Dubai where presumably personal and tactical issues will all get sorted out. Expectations would be high that a 0-1 win is in the cards.
The question put to caftards today should really be put to us before THAT match.
10 days after the butchering at the Emirates, and it could well be a butchering, we will face Crystal Palace at Selhurst Park. This, after a lovely getaway at Dubai where presumably personal and tactical issues will all get sorted out. Expectations would be high that a 0-1 win is in the cards.
The question put to caftards today should really be put to us before THAT match.
Most of the people who are against Moyes (me for example) are fine with Moyes to continue here as long as we finish on top 4. If we finish on top 4 (now) it means that I was wrong on my judgement about Moyes so Moyes should continue with the job.