We should by all means keep Kagawa at all cost and play him together with Mata in as many matches as possible.
Our best football this season came from Mata and Kagawa.
Our best football this season came from Mata and Kagawa.
Shinji Kagawa
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He's been our best player the past two league games for me.
Mata and Fletcher both help him. they give and go with the ball and will actually play it to him when he's in space.
It means he doesn't have to be stuck out on the wing all game because our general play isn't so rigid that he needs to be.
It's been so long since United played football instead of just knocking the ball slowly out wide (you have to go back to nearly 2 years before Fergie retired), that I think people have just forgotten what it looks like.
Mata and Fletcher both help him. they give and go with the ball and will actually play it to him when he's in space.
It means he doesn't have to be stuck out on the wing all game because our general play isn't so rigid that he needs to be.
It's been so long since United played football instead of just knocking the ball slowly out wide (you have to go back to nearly 2 years before Fergie retired), that I think people have just forgotten what it looks like.
Please don't sell this guy. He's a great player, should be starting every game.
Mental. Kagawa's nowhere near Mata in terms of what he can do in possession. I really rate Kagawa but he doesn't have anything like the passing range of Mata.
Mata's second goal said a lot about what Kagawa brings to the side. It was him who was pressing high and initiating a lightning counter. Between Kagawa winning the ball and it going into the net, there were just 6 touches, involving Kagawa, Hernandez and Mata - sorry, but the likes of Young and Valencia are too methodical to even consider that sort of speed of thought. People are a bit obsessed with pace and our inability to effectively counter, but the real problem has been our rigid team selections and archaic tactics. You get players like Kagawa and Mata into the side, and a forward that makes runs in behind, and all of a sudden, we look like our old selves: efficient counters.
Then, if you go back to the Villa game last weekend, Kagawa put in one of the best crosses United have seen this season for Rooney's goal, so he is capable of bringing certain qualities of a traditional wideman. Kagawa has so much more variety than Young or Valencia. It was a relief when the former went off yesterday.
It's abundantly clear that United need to do everything they can to make sure Kagawa and Mata are made to be the mainstays of our team. Then, it should be one of Welbeck or Januzaj completing the supporting cast, then one of Rooney or van Persie up front. Moyes needs to pick the best team, not the biggest names.
Then, if you go back to the Villa game last weekend, Kagawa put in one of the best crosses United have seen this season for Rooney's goal, so he is capable of bringing certain qualities of a traditional wideman. Kagawa has so much more variety than Young or Valencia. It was a relief when the former went off yesterday.
It's abundantly clear that United need to do everything they can to make sure Kagawa and Mata are made to be the mainstays of our team. Then, it should be one of Welbeck or Januzaj completing the supporting cast, then one of Rooney or van Persie up front. Moyes needs to pick the best team, not the biggest names.
I think they're different players. Kagawa's much better at keeping the play ticking over, in my opinion. He's a deeper lying player than Mata. The two compliment each other very well.
Still think that if we go Kagawa/Mata/Another behind RVP and Rooney then then the third AM needs to be a winger with proper pace who can beat people for fun. It's a dangerous game playing a front four without proper pace.
Hazard or Lucas would have been perfect
Still think that if we go Kagawa/Mata/Another behind RVP and Rooney then then the third AM needs to be a winger with proper pace who can beat people for fun. It's a dangerous game playing a front four without proper pace.
Hazard or Lucas would have been perfect
I'd have a lot of respect for Moyes if he ditches Young and brings in a world class winger. I agree it'd be a great option for United to have someone on that flank with lightning speed, but the point is, it's not imperative.
I think it is imperative. You need that variety in attack.
Not to mention that Mata is at his most effective when he's got pacy wingers to play in behind.
It's like Ozil at Arsenal, part of the reason he's struggled is because he's expected to play through balls to Giroud and Cazorla instead of Di Maria, Ronaldo and Benzema or Podolski/Muller/Reus. Had Walcott and Ox been playing on the wings all season he'd look twice as good a player.
To get the best out of Mata we need technical players to link with him like Kagawa but also a fast player who wants to get in behind defences and make that run inside the full back and centre back that Barcelona love so much so he can show his full range of passing. Pair Mata with Kagawa on one side and someone like Lucas on the other and we'll be laughing.
You got to be kidding me. Either you've never watched Kagawa at his best or you don't rate Kagawa as much as you make it sound to be.
The guy can pick a pass, make defence splitting through balls, can keep possession, very good in tight situation, very technical and he does plenty more on the ball. In fact Kagawa is very good on the ball than most of our squad. That's why he's always been asked by Moyesy to get on the ball as much as possible.
I would suggest you go watch Dortmund Kagawa to see how good the guy is on the ball
I agree with the premise of your point, but that pace in behind could easily be supplied by the striker. As you say, it can also be provided by the full backs.
I won't be devastated if we fail to sign a right winger, because I think there are more pressing areas to look at, but I agree we could do with an upgrade on the likes of Young and Valencia.
Nah, he's nowhere near. Even at his peak for Dortmund Kagawa's never been about the defence splitting pass. He's about quick interplay and clever flicks.
Unless Moyes goes, I doubt Kagawa will want to hang around to play 2nd fiddle to the likes of Young.
Oh come on man. Kagawa at Dortmund was more finding about that ball between 2 defenders(last defenders) to put Lewandoski in goal scoring situations. I remember watching that game against Bayern(just one of many examples) when Kagawa made those type of passes to find Lewandoski. heck even against Villa Kagawa showed his range of passing. He can cross a neat ball that can find the player, and at the same time he has the ability to make a defence splitting pass, like the one to Mata.
The biggest problem is that Kagawa hasn't gotten the chance to show his real level at United given he lacks serious opportunities and game time. But in truth Kagawa is easily able to do those passes. like he used to do at Dortmund.
Don't let them ungrateful bastards cheat you into staying another year Shinji. Leave this summer and face glory somewhere else where you'll be appreciated.
Sell RVP.
Taking into account the age of Kagawa, and his link with Mata and Rooney - then it'll only be good for the team if we sell RVP. I'd be devastated if we sell Shinji, especially with the form he's in.
The first player I REALLY REALLY WANTED to come to United a year or so before it actually happened He hasn't been given the chances he's deserved under Fergie and the start of the season with Moyes. Hopefully now they'll realise what a gem he is.
Taking into account the age of Kagawa, and his link with Mata and Rooney - then it'll only be good for the team if we sell RVP. I'd be devastated if we sell Shinji, especially with the form he's in.
The first player I REALLY REALLY WANTED to come to United a year or so before it actually happened
He hasn't been given the chances he's deserved under Fergie and the start of the season with Moyes. Hopefully now they'll realise what a gem he is.Why are people still saying he's not getting enough games. He's been absolutely vital the last month.
ive been advocating playing Kagawa as part of a midfield triangle and he looks great there.
People say he has not got pace but I think is sharp enough to cause problems on the counter.
Certainly not one paced like Mata.He is the best short passer at the club and can dictate tempo like scholes. He has to be in the team and stay.
People say he has not got pace but I think is sharp enough to cause problems on the counter.
Certainly not one paced like Mata.He is the best short passer at the club and can dictate tempo like scholes. He has to be in the team and stay.
A three of Welbeck/Mata/Kagawa on form looks pretty tasty doesn't it?
There seems to be much more confidence in his game from other players as well now, players (particularly Fletcher) are playing the ball to his feet in tight areas whereas at the beginning of the season he wouldn't get the ball unless he was in acres of space - this is the same for when Mata first joined. As a result we are seeing the ball forced out wide much less and when we do use width it's at the right time. Positive signs but we need Moyes to transfer this play and confidence against the very best teams.
Diddums.
Unfortunately this is so true, if I'm in his position, I'd want to leave if Moyes stays, and this from a lifetime United fan.
I have made peace with the fact Young will probably be here next season because of his contract sadly, just hope that doesn't affect Kagawa if we let him leave im pretty sure he will go somewhere else and be a star i rate him highly. I'd be gutted to watch shinji tear it up somewhere while we have to watch Ashley plodding up and down the left wing.
Kagawa won't be sold, he's way too important to our commercial revenues in the far east which is a market we are actively trying to spread into even more. It would be a commercially terrible decision to sell him let alone for his fantastic performances last couple of games.
I'd love to keep him, I could see him being part of a deal for Marco Reus.
I'd love to keep him, I could see him being part of a deal for Marco Reus.
Myth
Prior to this month he wasn't getting any chances. Had he been given similar chances earlier Kagawa would have shown his current form earlier. Had Moyes just let him kick on from his Leverkuson or Swansea performance he'd have been performing just as well as he is doing now and we would have been higher in the table
Amazing how people keep saying that. Sure he might not get stuck in like others, but he closes down space and passing routes and presses better than the others apart from Valencia. He's just a class player all around IMO, really shocking that it took moyes so long to give him some games.
Yup. Seems like too many people forget that there aren't just one way to attack and one way to defend. Kagawa has excelled in the pressing style of defending and of course his first season here was all about getting used to that low-ultra passive defense almost only United utilizes.
I got the idea then as he was kind of alone with benefiting a higher press but now Mata is in the exact same situation. Quite poor in a passive defense but actually very good at pressing. Kagawa had the best stamina measured since Beckham was here if I don't remember that wrong, which means he really suits a defense that is based around plenty of running and closing down space.
Both Mata and Kagawa are perfect against high pressing teams too as they are extremely comfortable in tight and pressured areas. Rarely do they lose the ball because they were in a tight area.
Not doubting you but where do you find information like this out?
Lawyered.
Indeed and one of the main reason he worked so well in Dortmunds system. Maybe he isn't too good tracking back but putting pressure on defenders he always did what was asked of him for Dortmund.
Its just assumption based on the fact Young doesn't really offer anything coming forward over Kagawa. So people assume it must be that he's better defensively
Its nonsense
Arguably been our most influential player in our last few games, along with Rooney and Mata.
Next season I want to see him, Mata and a goalscoring winger (Griezmann) behind Rooney.
Next season I want to see him, Mata and a goalscoring winger (Griezmann) behind Rooney.
This. So much this.
People basically decided that Young must be picked in front of Kagawa for a reason. After trying to find those "reasons" people can't come up with anything and we are left with people assuming Young does more defensively than Kagawa in order to get picked ahead which isn't true at all. It's all Moyes twisted mind.
This defensive excuse is thrown around to all players who have any ounce of technicality or flair in their game. It used to be Nani, now it's Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj. I don't know what people think. Do all these technical players decided to have a conspiracy and refuse to be any good at defending
It's like if you're shit, it means you're great defensively, whereas if you're good, especially on the ball it means you suck defensively.
That's the Caf logic that has been circulating for a while now
Maybe even in with a shout for player of the month. He didn't play in the games we got thrashed in (well got subbed on vs City, but it was lost already), changed the game against Bayern, and was in the top 3 in pretty much all the other games where we won in. Definitely been up there with our best players in the last month since Moyes started playing him again.
Don't think we need to buy another winger though. Nani if he gets over the injuries can be the perfect player there, but if we sell him we still have Welbeck to grow into that position, Januzaj who will be closer to being ready to start every week (think 2 years from now he could be a key player starting consistently, next year playing more than this year too). We also have Valencia to come in when needed. You can be sure that all of their performances would improve with a stronger midfield too. Kagawa, Mata, Welbeck, Januzaj, Nani and Valencia is a very good group for the 3 behind the striker IMO and doesn't need strengthening.
A football team has 11 players and all 11 players are not chosen because of the defensive discipline though. What's the point of choosing 11 Valencia's because they are defensively disciplined when they are so out of form and give you no outlet? Look at his goals and assists productivity and how many attacks break down on his side. A ball retaining midfielder capable of linking up our attacking players is a much more sure fire option than to have a guy who keeps tracking back and providing a body when the opposition counter attacks. Offense in many cases is the best form of defense. Never mind against City, Chelsea and Arsenal, why is Kagawa not playing against all other teams when the defensive disciple is not a mandatory option considering our team quality and our ability to score more goals? This is one of our main problems, looking for defensive discipline against Fulham and Cardiff by playing Valencia and Young or saying he's too easily brushed off the ball while playing a 4 man defense and a covering midfield player like Fellaini makes no sense. Sorry, end of rant.
Yeah. I'm in the same position as you. Not starting Kagawa midweek would be baffling.
I hope so. Nani is such a great player when he is on form, however, I find myself saying the same thing every season.
Unfortunately, he's been injured the majority of this season so he hasn't really been able to show Moyes what he's capable of. He's not long been given a new contract so maybe he'll be given another season here, however, Nani is now an established player at the club and needs to start showing some consistency, because like I said, he's such a great player when on form. I can imagine he'd play a pivotal role in us bringing in Carvalho too, as he stated that Nani is/was his favourite player.
So is he going or not? so confusing this unless he's Reus's agent of course.
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