You don't miss games because you've ate too much. That was just another Moyes blunder with words. It's medically unheard of and by all accounts Kagawa was irritated and embarrassed by the reports. You can't use that against the guy.Shinji Kagawa
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You don't miss games because you've ate too much. That was just another Moyes blunder with words. It's medically unheard of and by all accounts Kagawa was irritated and embarrassed by the reports. You can't use that against the guy.Ando style?
I've already said I'm wrong, now stop defending the fat bastard.
I didn't read the page before, sorry. My bad.
This should really be a minimum prerequisite of future Manchester United players. Its getting quite embarrassing how obviously bad we are at possession in the latter stages of Europe.
Some people moaned about his position, but plenty of us here said he would be capable from out wide with the right players around him and with the right instructions.
There is night and day difference when he is playing with the likes of Mata, Januzaj and Hernandez to the Valencia, Young and Rooney at number 10. Why did he still seem capable last night? Well, simply because our standards changed for the night. It was pretty typical of his early performances in the season - picking up the ball, playing the right pass, keeping it in tight situations but that generally isn't enough for a United team.
When Rooney is at number 10 and Kagawa is wide they find themselves playing in the same area, getting in eachothers way. When Rooneys at number 10 is when we've seen the best link up play from the two - Leverkusen, Norwich.
He's a fantastic player.. and if you play players who are similarly minded and technically sound he'll be more influential - that is true of any player, including Mata.
Nah, that's crap. Kagawa played well last night, by any definition. You're just bending reality to try and avoid conceding a point.
I suggest you knew this already, but nothing stands in your way when it comes to being obtuse. Carry on!
I agree that Kagawa played well last night, he was my man of the match. What I'm saying is, his contribution to keeping the ball, taking it forward, playing the right pass was far more important last night than we would normally consider it. He has done these things well in every game he has played for United.
I've always been fairly happy with him - conceding he could take more iniative and responsibility and knowing that with the right players and with the right instructions he could be great here. I always wanted him in the team for his ability to control the tempo and his ball retention. But others haven't, and people weren't satisfied with him if he wasn't creating plenty of goal scoring opportunities.
Indeed.
He blatantly has not played as well as he did last night in every game he has played for United. Which is the point you seem to be avoiding.
Only in the context of it being Bayern Munich and not Aston Villa - which is exactly the point I'm making, not avoiding.
No, not only in that context.
Christ, surely you can see that Kagawa played better - individually - last night than he did in most games earlier this season?
If you can't then I'll have to agree to disagree. We seem to be watching a different sport.
I do, but because I think that context is important. Less space, less time, more pressure and he did fantastically.
Was he particularly more creative this game than in most of his games? Not at all, but that's to be expected against Bayern Munich.
It was a great performance from him. Which is not to say all his other performances have been poor, only that he has at times played poorly and seldom played as well as last night.
Is it just in football a player is judged on a weekly/fortnightly/monthly basis? I can't recall any other sport where this happens. Generally in other sports we tend to judge a players capacity to deliver consistently over a certain time.
Shinji has definitely been underwhelming over the course of his United career for whatever reason, and fans have every right to flag this up. He has undoubtedly shown great form over the last few weeks. Let hope this form continues over a long period.
Shinji has definitely been underwhelming over the course of his United career for whatever reason, and fans have every right to flag this up. He has undoubtedly shown great form over the last few weeks. Let hope this form continues over a long period.
Covered more than our any other player yesterday, only Rooney and Carrick were close. And it's always like that whenever I checked the stats, but there was this myth last year that he lacks stamina.
Football is on tele so much these days it's almost impossible to escape the often fickle, incessant weekly dissection of a footballer. I think modern era players are under a lot more scrutiny than even players in the 90 and early 00's. People talk about the likes of Bruce, Pallister and many others, and I'm too young to remember any of that, but they will have made mistakes that lead to goals fairly often, like all defenders do. I think they benefit from the lack of YouTube and are quite rightly judged on the basis of their entire United careers. Smalling and Jones are written off after every wrong kick of the ball. It's the nature of the beast that's the modern game.
Indeed, I think this should start at the back. I'm not saying we get David Luiz types of centre backs, but we really should encourage our centrebacks to be more comfortable on the ball. I've had enough of the likes of Rio Ferdinand pumping high balls and constantly giving away possession.
Plus I've had enough of seeing stuff like Carrick last night staying away from Jones when he was under pressure and pointing backwards for Jones to pass back to De Gea or our cbs only for them to pump the ball clear. We need players who would show for the ball. It might be argued that Bayern were far better than us, and its understandable that we resort to these tactics. True. I don't begrudge Moyes for playing this way vs Bayern. But this has gone on too long actually. It has been obvious for years that we're not the best at possession and it shows more clearly when we're in the latter stages of the CL. Hopefully when Moyes alluded to our squad not being that good, he has this in mind. Him bringing in Mata, and trying to buy Herrera and Fabregas is hopefully indicative of the type of football he wants to play.
Madness that he could not even find a place in the bench in the first half of the season.
To be fair, I think there's a middle ground here. You can see what @Alock1 is saying; the qualities that shone through last night from Kagawa were ones that are normally under-appreciated in many places, including here on this forum. He didn't get the goal or assist that everyone craves, nor did he even lay several goals on a plate that others missed. And yet, the intense pressing from Bayern made it clear just how much better and more intelligent he is at keeping possession, picking the right pass and helping the team transition to attack than anyone else that was on the pitch last night.
At the same time, there are a couple more things that people have been crying out for, here and elsewhere, that he showed more of last night. He seemed to take responsibility more, rather than take the ball and lay it off as he had done earlier this season. On occasion, his drives forward were really what gave the team impetus, and allowed us to construct a move that would otherwise have broken down or not even begun. That extra bit of energy and drive will do a lot in the eyes of many supporters, and rightly so. The truth is he's not at Borussia Dortmund anymore, surrounded by technical, mobile players that like to play quick one twos and press high up the pitch and so on. Maybe we will build towards being better in possession over the next couple of years, but in the meantime, I think people would like him to take the reins more and use the fact that he's one of the best players on the pitch to produce a bit more.
in other words, yesterday wasn't quite the average Kagawa performance in his Utd career so far, it was better than that. But it also wasn't his best, or most productive, and people did learn to appreciate qualities they might not have in another context.
Kagawa has finally lost a game against Munich, thanks a bunch Moyes
Shouldn't that be obvious for anyone with a capable brain? If you overeat, you might feel bad for a handful of hours, but then your stomach acide does its work and your stomach itself stretches. I don't need a medicine PhD to figure that. Neither do I to figure you pump someones stomach for toxic reasons. So it might have been some food poisoning or something along the lines.
You don't miss two weeks of training because you've had too much food for a dinner either.
Surely he's played his way into our plans for next season now.
Shinji, Mata, and Adnan are the only player we currently have that I get excited to watch play in an attacking sense.
Not true at all. They're literally appreciated more than any others.
It's funny 'cos it's true. Can you imagine if our resident Kagawa acolytes (Kagawacolytes?) somehow forgot to remind us all he'd played well after a good game? I'd immediately worry the poor cnuts had died.
Can you imagine if our resident Kagawa acolytes (Kagawacolytes?) somehow forgot to remind us all he'd played well after a good game? I'd immediately worry the poor cnuts had died.
Of if our resident Kagawaphobes somehow forget to remind us all he'd played badly after an average game? There's never any middle ground.
Not really the point though, is it?
When he's played well he's been getting praise from everyone.
When he's been poor/average he gets criticised by some, not by others.
Recently, he's been getting praise from everyone and criticism from none. This is in contrast to earlier in the season.
Ergo, he is playing better recently.
Hell, a lot of them will call a good day "average" as well.
There was this one half where Kagawa created 3 clear cut chances, dribbled past a couple of defenders, ran like crazy, and kept posssession well. The verdict from the "Kagawaphobes"? Average half of football. He needs to impose himself more on the game.
Is it a wonder that people lose patience? Also, Kagawa has to be one of the only United players that constantly gets overrated on the Caf. The Caf is usually very negative in the player threads, and will only write something good when the player has had a very good game. The fact that so much good is being written about Kagawa, even on days when he hasn't been superb, is a good thing. It's annoying how certain posters feel the need to turn a positive thing into something negative.
To me, Kagawa becoming a success here threatens the importance of the overpaid scouse feck.
RvP is a better striker, Kagawa and Mata are both better No. 10s, and Rooney being asked to play on the wing will confuse and anger him...and again we have Nani/Adnan/Young/Valencia who all offer more pace on the wing.
RvP is a better striker, Kagawa and Mata are both better No. 10s, and Rooney being asked to play on the wing will confuse and anger him...and again we have Nani/Adnan/Young/Valencia who all offer more pace on the wing.
You do realise he will probably end up as Man United/England and potentially premier league all time top scorer?
Couldn't care less about England's top scorer, but yes I am aware of it.
He'll be boasting to his grandkids about how he once saw Wayne Rooney play in the flesh (assuming he goes to games) Such is life.
Yea well, even if that counts for nothing, you'll never see Rooney missing a match because he ate a lot.
Exactly!
Why the feck did it take Moyes until fecking March to play him?
He looked better than most of the Bayern players for fecks sackes.
Yes I know Kagawa wasn't great at the start of the season and it's because he barely got a look in at all. Your best players should play the most and it is the manager's main responsibility to get the best out of their best players.
Shameful. Sackable offense. Embarrassing that our manager rates Young and a two striker system over playing Kagawa regularly.
Then he buys Mata who plays in the same position!!
If I was Kagawa I'd be out right after the World Cup. He deserves better than this.
He looked better than most of the Bayern players for fecks sackes.
Yes I know Kagawa wasn't great at the start of the season and it's because he barely got a look in at all. Your best players should play the most and it is the manager's main responsibility to get the best out of their best players.
Shameful. Sackable offense. Embarrassing that our manager rates Young and a two striker system over playing Kagawa regularly.
Then he buys Mata who plays in the same position!!
If I was Kagawa I'd be out right after the World Cup. He deserves better than this.
Thank feck for World cup year though. Rooney may actually turn up in some sort of shape. Otherwise, Roonster will rock up to Old trafford in whatever shape he wishes and we'll have to play him to fitness. I don't think you'll notice that though Twiggy
Erm... It didn't?
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