United linked with van Gaal in the meeja

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Antisocial said:
I do wonder IF the club are looking at replacing Moyes, than who at the club is taking the lead on advising on the football aspect? It seems the two directors that have led on football issues are Sir Alex and Sir Bobby, both of whom are the people who championed Moyes, are closely linked to Moyes' appointment and have spoken before about supporting him and giving managers time. Would they be the ones advising on a new manager, and if they did then would they be listened to after the Moyes mess?

It seems from many posters here that a plan of bringing in van Gaal for a few years ahead of competing for a longer-term manager to succeed him is one that has many merits, but who at the club would be making such suggestions and creating the strategy? The Glazers famously have no idea/interest in the non-financial aspects of football, nor is Woodward a "football man", so someone must be advising on those issues.

If the two Sirs are not involved in that, then who is, and what is their view on style of play and such matters?
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Nothing seems to indicate a power shift in this regard. I doubt Fergie/Charlton are being marginalized, as it were. If Moyes is on his way out as we speak and candidates are being looked at to replace him, I'd say the likeliest scenario is that Fergie and Charlton have come to the conclusion they made a mistake in going for him.

At the end of the day, though, Moyes probably isn't on his way out. If he's sacked anytime soon I'll be surprised. Not shocked - it's within the realm of possibilities - but definitely surprised.
 
Antisocial said:
I do wonder IF the club are looking at replacing Moyes, than who at the club is taking the lead on advising on the football aspect? It seems the two directors that have led on football issues are Sir Alex and Sir Bobby, both of whom are the people who championed Moyes, are closely linked to Moyes' appointment and have spoken before about supporting him and giving managers time. Would they be the ones advising on a new manager, and if they did then would they be listened to after the Moyes mess?

It seems from many posters here that a plan of bringing in van Gaal for a few years ahead of competing for a longer-term manager to succeed him is one that has many merits, but who at the club would be making such suggestions and creating the strategy? The Glazers famously have no idea/interest in the non-financial aspects of football, nor is Woodward a "football man", so someone must be advising on those issues.

If the two Sirs are not involved in that, then who is, and what is their view on style of play and such matters?
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The Glazers obviously have advisors regarding the sporting side of the club that aren't the knights of Old Trafford. Said advisors may have noticed the rise of DoFs helping a club gain success. The reality is in modern football you can't have or aren't afforded the same total control over a club. SAF was one of the last of a dying breed and I think he and the club may have been a little too romantic with the idea of tradition this time last year.

Then again maybe SAF has realised he misjudged his successor/magnitude of the job he was leaving for his successor and said something.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Nothing seems to indicate a power shift in this regard. I doubt Fergie/Charlton are being marginalized, as it were. If Moyes is on his way out as we speak and candidates are being looked at to replace him, I'd say the likeliest scenario is that Fergie and Charlton have come to the conclusion they made a mistake in going for him.

At the end of the day, though, Moyes probably isn't on his way out. If he's sacked anytime soon I'll be surprised. Not shocked - it's within the realm of possibilities - but definitely surprised.
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This makes me feel depressed more. I am hoping that they (the two sirs) were just not sure who to bring in to replace Moyes, rather than not thinking of replacing him at all. Everyone should be able to see Moyes has let down the two sirs. There was no way the two sirs have expected the position we are in as of now (not in their wildest dreams or rather, nightmares)
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Nothing seems to indicate a power shift in this regard. I doubt Fergie/Charlton are being marginalized, as it were. If Moyes is on his way out as we speak and candidates are being looked at to replace him, I'd say the likeliest scenario is that Fergie and Charlton have come to the conclusion they made a mistake in going for him.

At the end of the day, though, Moyes probably isn't on his way out. If he's sacked anytime soon I'll be surprised. Not shocked - it's within the realm of possibilities - but definitely surprised.
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You may be surprised on that one. SAF may have had influence in getting Moyes the job but I think you'll find in the coming months that's changed....significantly.

As for Van Gaal - all I would read into it is the club are considering options. He won't be the only one they've spoken too - he's just the only one was who has blabbed about it.
 
Ubik said:
That would be the worst of both worlds.
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How?

IMO it's probably the best way out of the problems we face. It allows Moyes to stay and allows the club to show they still have some faith in him whilst also bringing someone in who can help mentor Moyes in a more hands on way than SAF can. He also makes up on Moyes shortcomings. Mainly his lack of attacking intent and seemingly inability to motivate top tier players consistently.

If this were to play out I think the club would spin it as more of an appointment of an assistant to Moyes rather than a replacement or DoF. Whether van Gaal would accept such a role is another matter.

I still think Moyes will be the main man next season, but would hope either he's realised or the club has realised he needs some assistance on the tactical /coaching side of things.
 
LonelyFire said:
You may be surprised on that one. SAF may have had influence in getting Moyes the job but I think you'll find in the coming months that's changed....significantly.

As for Van Gaal - all I would read into it is the club are considering options. He won't be the only one they've spoken too - he's just the only one was who has blabbed about it.
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Is that so, eh? Well, I'm not ITK so I can't counter that. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
b82REZ said:
How?

IMO it's probably the best way out of the problems we face. It allows Moyes to stay and allows the club to show they still have some faith in him whilst also bringing someone in who can help mentor Moyes in a more hands on way than SAF can. He also makes up on Moyes shortcomings. Mainly his lack of attacking intent and seemingly inability to motivate top tier players consistently.

If this were to play out I think the club would spin it as more of an appointment of an assistant to Moyes rather than a replacement or DoF. Whether van Gaal would accept such a role is another matter.

I still think Moyes will be the main man next season, but would hope either he's realised or the club has realised he needs some assistance on the tactical /coaching side of things.
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In my opinion it might be a good idea for Moyes but a bad idea for the club, would be a farce to have Van Gall come in to mentor moyes and decide his tactics for him, would undermine him and erode his authority everyone would know who the real boss is.

First of all Moyes wouldn't accept it he would know Van Gall was the next manager in waiting once the board decide to pull the trigger on him, look at Robson/Venables & Evans/Houllier these scenarios are rare and always end the same way with one getting sacked usually the original manager, moyes ( to me anyway) doesn't seem the type that takes advice well he ignored SAF and sacked our coaching staff in favour of his own nodding dogs from everton. He and Van Gaal would not have a good working relationship in my opinion considering Van Gaal is said to be a fiery opinionated character.

Secondly why would Van Gaal accept such a position look at the mans CV he can get work anywhere, a multiple league title/european title winning manager in different countries and clubs becoming assistant to David 'Community Shield' Moyes is just not going to happen in my opinion.

If the club has realized Moyes needs assistance with tactics to the extent you are suggesting then he should be out the door.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Is that so, eh? Well, I'm not ITK so I can't counter that. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
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We shall mate. There's going to be a number in the current setup trying to cover their arse over this debacle.

We will have our answer come the beginning of June I'd imagine
 
b82REZ said:
How?

IMO it's probably the best way out of the problems we face. It allows Moyes to stay and allows the club to show they still have some faith in him whilst also bringing someone in who can help mentor Moyes in a more hands on way than SAF can. He also makes up on Moyes shortcomings. Mainly his lack of attacking intent and seemingly inability to motivate top tier players consistently.

If this were to play out I think the club would spin it as more of an appointment of an assistant to Moyes rather than a replacement or DoF. Whether van Gaal would accept such a role is another matter.

I still think Moyes will be the main man next season, but would hope either he's realised or the club has realised he needs some assistance on the tactical /coaching side of things.
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But that's basically replacing Moyes in every role without transferring the title of "manager" over. You bring in directors of football usually to oversee player recruitment and the direction of the club, leaving the playing side up to the manager. That's why it would be the worst of both worlds - Moyes tactics and motivation, Van Gaal signing players (not his strongest suit historically).
 
redevil2 said:
My post was a question. You could have replied by saying yes, or no.

My responses to your various posts was basing on what you said you didn't want Moyes to be replaced by the like of ABV (who's a worse manager in your view).
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Is this a wind up? Where did I say I didn't want Moyes to be replaced by "the like of" AVB? Where did I say Moyes is a better manager than AVB? What the f*ck are you talking about?

Since it was not my opinion ABV would be worse than Moyes (given what Moyes has done in the short 8 months turning a Champion team into a mediocre team like Everton and breaking all the United records etc and my lack of confidence in what he can do in the future for us), we should try anyone (even ABV).

When you referred to ABV, you said "He would likely already have fallen out with everyone and been sacked. Seems to be his MO." remember?
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Yes, I remember. I thought I was quite clear that he would have been sacked as a result of falling out with everyone. Seemingly what happened at Chelsea and Spurs. Does that mean he is a worse manager than Moyes?

Let me make it clear: You prefer Moyes over ABV or the like?
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No. No, I don't. AVB has actually proven he can win things. I am afraid you are going to have to tell me who "the like" is before I can answer that one.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
You aren't concerned about landing an AVB?
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redevil2 said:
I think at this point in time, anyone will be able to prove to be more convincing than Moyes, no?
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Lance Uppercut said:
A dangerous way of looking at things.
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redevil2 said:
Dangerous? LOL... What is more dangerous than having a manager who's aim is to "hopefully" rebuild the team in one year and has not attempt to aim higher (at least if we are just basing on what he's telling us). We within 8 months have become a mediocre team from being a reigning Champion and are not playing in European next year, first time in 19 years. Even ABV would likely to think it is not acceptable, No?
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Lance Uppercut said:
Having a manager that's even worse. They do exist.

He would likely already have fallen out with everyone and been sacked. Seems to be his MO.
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Just a few posts to keep these conversations in prospective.

If I have misunderstood what you meant, then I apologise. But you seem more intent on being rude rather than explaining what you really meant when I asked you direct yes and no questions. No?
 
adexkola said:
Unlike devilish, you're so much better as a poster without the shit sarcasm.
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If u disagree with any of my posts please talk. Im always open for a healthy discussion.

Seriously you are a much better poster without these silly statements
 
Carl said:
Don't know how I feel about Van Gaal. He doesn't seem to ever stay in any one place for more than a couple of years.
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If he signs and stays at United for a couple of years, takes us back where we belong, than I am not too bothered if he leaves (although to be fair, before witnessing Moyes' terrible 8 months performance, it never occurred to me we should hire a manager for short term gain. That's how Moyes has changed all my feeling about managers SIGH)
 
redevil2 said:
Just a few posts to keep these conversations in prospective.

If I have misunderstood what you meant, then I apologise. But you seem more intent on being rude rather than explaining what you really meant when I asked you direct yes and no questions. No?
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Yes, you have misunderstood me. Repeatedly. To the point where I seriously believed you were doing it on purpose. You stated as fact that I have said numerous things which I simply haven't.

You have quoted and bolded those two lines again. Here is what was actually posted:

Dangerous? LOL... What is more dangerous than having a manager who's aim is to "hopefully" rebuild the team in one year and has not attempt to aim higher (at least if we are just basing on what he's telling us).
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Having a manager that's even worse. They do exist.
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Note, no mention of AVB. There ARE managers out there that are worse than Moyes. Which is why what you said about anyone being better was ridiculous.

We within 8 months have become a mediocre team from being a reigning Champion and are not playing in European next year, first time in 19 years. Even ABV would likely to think it is not acceptable, No?
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He would likely already have fallen out with everyone and been sacked. Seems to be his MO.
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No mention of Moyes. No mention of AVB being worse than Moyes.

I don't know how much clearer I can be here.
 
BTW I'm not completely for van Gaal. He's a good manager, even with doubtful second spell at Barcelona and not really great last season at Bayern I think he has all the necessary tools to be successful at this level. Trouble is he'd only be a short term fix and it's not unthinkable that we'd find ourselves in the exact same position we are in right now after his departure. Then again we're not going to find a manager who will stay here for 10+ years most likely so continuity will have to come from above - DoF isn't necessarily the worst idea in the world.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
Yes, you have misunderstood me. Repeatedly. To the point where I seriously believed you were doing it on purpose. You stated as fact that I have said numerous things which I simply haven't.

....
No mention of Moyes. No mention of AVB being worse than Moyes.

I don't know how much clearer I can be here.
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Fair enough, if I have misunderstood you. Sorry. But if you did not mean AVB will be worse than Moyes, you did come across as being sceptical about AVB coming to us when implying we should be concerned about landing an AVB. See:

Lance Uppercut said:
You aren't concerned about landing an AVB?
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redevil2 said:
Fair enough, if I have misunderstood you. Sorry. But if you did not mean AVB will be worse than Moyes, you did come across as being sceptical about AVB coming to us when implying we should be concerned about landing an AVB. See:
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Because I would prefer Van Gaal over AVB.
 
Sarni said:
BTW I'm not completely for van Gaal. He's a good manager, even with doubtful second spell at Barcelona and not really great last season at Bayern I think he has all the necessary tools to be successful at this level. Trouble is he'd only be a short term fix and it's not unthinkable that we'd find ourselves in the exact same position we are in right now after his departure. Then again we're not going to find a manager who will stay here for 10+ years most likely so continuity will have to come from above - DoF isn't necessarily the worst idea in the world.
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Better then long term mediocrity.
 
I don't doubt he's a better manager than Moyes, but part of me is thinking that Moyes might be the lesser of two evils here.

Aside from being a prick, the 2 biggest strikes against Mourinho (whose better than both of them) was that he doesn't typically stay at a club for very long and his lack of track record in bringing through youth. These 2 things are intertwined with eachother. When you hire a manager specifically to win things in the short term like Inter and Real did with Mourinho or what we're asking of Van Gaal it comes as no suprise they are less motivated to bring through youth. Why suffer through the growing pains of bringing through 19 year old Phil Jones when the club would gleefully let you spend on Thiago Silva? And it's not like you'll be around to reap the benefits when that young player matures anyway.

Then there's the issue of Rooney and Van Persie. Many people think this is a huge problem we have and while many acknowledged that Van Persie is the better player, most people would opt to keep Rooney because it's in the best interest of the club. If this really is the problem, whose side do you think Van Gaal takes in this?
 
manutddjw said:
I don't doubt he's a better manager than Moyes, but part of me is thinking that Moyes might be the lesser of two evils here.

Aside from being a prick, the 2 biggest strikes against Mourinho (whose better than both of them) was that he doesn't typically stay at a club for very long and his lack of track record in bringing through youth. These 2 things are intertwined with eachother. When you hire a manager specifically to win things in the short term like Inter and Real did with Mourinho or what we're asking of Van Gaal it comes as no suprise they are less motivated to bring through youth. Why suffer through the growing pains of bringing through 19 year old Phil Jones when the club would gleefully let you spend on Thiago Silva? And it's not like you'll be around to reap the benefits when that young player matures anyway.

Then there's the issue of Rooney and Van Persie. Many people think this is a huge problem we have and while many acknowledged that Van Persie is the better player, most people would opt to keep Rooney because it's in the best interest of the club. If this really is the problem, whose side do you think Van Gaal takes in this?
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Isn't Van Gaal known for giving young players a chance? I think it was him that gave the likes of Puyol, Valdes and Xavi their break at Barca.
 
manutddjw said:
I don't doubt he's a better manager than Moyes, but part of me is thinking that Moyes might be the lesser of two evils here.

Aside from being a prick, the 2 biggest strikes against Mourinho (whose better than both of them) was that he doesn't typically stay at a club for very long and his lack of track record in bringing through youth. These 2 things are intertwined with eachother. When you hire a manager specifically to win things in the short term like Inter and Real did with Mourinho or what we're asking of Van Gaal it comes as no suprise they are less motivated to bring through youth. Why suffer through the growing pains of bringing through 19 year old Phil Jones when the club would gleefully let you spend on Thiago Silva? And it's not like you'll be around to reap the benefits when that young player matures anyway.

Then there's the issue of Rooney and Van Persie. Many people think this is a huge problem we have and while many acknowledged that Van Persie is the better player, most people would opt to keep Rooney because it's in the best interest of the club. If this really is the problem, whose side do you think Van Gaal takes in this?
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Van Gaal is one of the best managers in promoting youth players. He was the one who made Schweinsteiger a CM, when nobody knew his best position yet. Made Alaba from a DM to LB, helped Müller immensly and convinced Badstuber that he should play CB.
 
Yeah, one of the more prevalent criticisms of Van Gaal seems to be that he actually believes in youth too much.
 
Everyone seems to think players can lose it, so can managers, some would say Wenger has lost it. I've admitted I know very little about him but his record suggests that all his good work happened in the 90s. Someone said he had Barca 3 points clear of the relegation zone when he was sack. I know Barca dipped off for a period but how the feck do you manage that? Liverpool during their barren spell were, at worst under sitting, what 11th.
 
Redo91 said:
Isn't Van Gaal known for giving young players a chance? I think it was him that gave the likes of Puyol, Valdes and Xavi their break at Barca.
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Yes - he gave Xavi playtime on cost of Guardiola etc. Müller - there was the newly bought record German transfer Gomez, World Champion Luca Toni and World-Cup-golden-boot winner sitting on the bench for him + an experienced Hamit Altintop etc. At the others I do not know but van Gaal never cared about age.

Let's face it like this - Januzaj would always play with van Gaal...
 
saivet said:
Everyone seems to think players can lose it, so can managers, some would say Wenger has lost it. I've admitted I know very little about him but his record suggests that all his good work happened in the 90s. Someone said he had Barca 3 points clear of the relegation zone when he was sack. I know Barca dipped off for a period but how the feck do you manage that? Liverpool during their barren spell were, at worst under sitting, what 11th.
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I know I said that a few times. I'm sure he is a fine manager but of course there will be risks associated with appointing him. In all fairness, despite being 3 points from relegation, he was still 12th in the league.

banner.gif
Tuesday, 28 January, 2003, 10:38 GMT
Van Gaal leaves Barca
_38596671_vangaal300.jpg

Van Gaal is in his second spell at Barcelona
Louis van Gaal has confirmed that he has reached an agreement with Barcelona to terminate his contract.
The 51-year-old former Dutch national coach said he had agreed a severance deal with the Catalan outfit.

"After reflecting on the recent performances of the club and speaking with Barcelona president Joan Gaspart we have decided that it is in the best interests of the club that we go our separate ways," said Van Gaal.

"I am really upset that as a coach I haven't lived up to the expectations of the Barcelona fans," he added.

Barcelona general director Xavier Perez Farguell revealed that Van Gaal would be leaving the Nou Camp following a two-hour meeting of the club's board of directors on Monday.

Van Gaal factfile
Ajax (1991-1997)Wins European Cup, Uefa Cup, European Supercup, Dutch league three times and cup twice
Barcelona (1997-2000): European Supercup, Spanish league and Copa Del Rey claimed in first season and league retained in his second.
Holland (2000-2001): Fail to qualify for World Cup for first time since 1996.
Barcelona (2002-2003): Win 10 successive Champions League games but slip to 12th in league

Barcelona treasurer Ramon Salabert said earlier on Monday that Van Gaal's dismissal would cost the club four million euros in compensation.

The Dutchman's contract was due to run until June 2005.

Van Gaal, who is in his second spell with the club, had come under increasing pressure after a poor run of results.

The situation intensified after Barca's latest defeat - a 2-0 reverse against Celta Vigo on Sunday which left them 20 points adrift of leaders Real Sociedad.

Van Gaal led Barcelona to league titles in the first two seasons of his original tenure at the Nou Camp from 1997 to 2000.

Since the Dutchman's return, the club have won a record-equalling 10 successive Champions League games but slipped to 12th place in La Liga, just three points above the relegation zone.

One of his first decisions on his return was to force Brazilian striker Rivaldo out.

Juan Roman Riquelme arrived as a replacement but, along with Van Gaal's other signings, Spanish midfielder Gaizka Mendieta and German goalkeeper Robert Enke, he disappointed.

Carlos Rexach, whom Van Gaal succeeded for his second spell at Barca, could now take over at the Nou Camp in a caretaker capacity.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/2700353.stm
 
Blackwidow said:
Yes - he gave Xavi playtime on cost of Guardiola etc. Müller - there was the newly bought record German transfer Gomez, World Champion Luca Toni and World-Cup-golden-boot winner sitting on the bench for him + an experienced Hamit Altintop etc. At the others I do not know but van Gaal never cared about age.

Let's face it like this - Januzaj would always play with van Gaal...
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Badstuber too. And he also converted Schweinsteiger from a winger to a central midfielder.
 
Nevermind the bollocks, we're getting Klopp!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-eye-jurgen-klopp-3414806

Manchester United eye Jurgen Klopp as potential replacement for David Moyes

Manchester United will turn to Dortmund’s Jurgen Klopp if they decide the gamble on David Moyes cannot go on.

As it emerged the Reds met Holland manager Louis Van Gaal for discussions last week, Moyes’ future as manager was thrown into fresh doubt.

But while Van Gaal would be a candidate, Mirror Sport understands it is Klopp who is the first choice of the Old Trafford hierarchy.

His reputation has soared at Dortmund, having guided them to the Bundesliga title ahead of Bayern Munich in 2012 and the Champions League Final last season.

United believe his aggressive brand of football and up-front managerial style is exactly what is needed after the debacle of Moyes’s first season.

While the United board is ready to sanction a £200million summer spending spree, there are increasing doubts over whether Moyes is the man to be given the funds.

Klopp is also being watched by Barcelona, who are ready to dump Argentine Tata Martino after one season.

He has proved his acumen in the transfer market with the captures of Robert Lewandowski, Marco Reus, Mats Hummels, Lukasz Piszczek and Ilkay Gundogan.

But with Bayern using their financial muscle and viewing Dortmund as little more than a feeder club – Lewandowski will follow Mario Gotze to the Allianz Arena this summer – Klopp is believed to be ready to leave if the right offer comes along.

According to reports in Holland, Van Gaal recently met United’s Joel Glazer, chief executive Edward Woodward and former power-broker David Gill.
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Get 'em out, lads.
 
Think the ref's pulling out the red for Milner here...
 
At least with Van Gaal it was reports in holland. I don't even know what this is but it sounds made up....
 
Eric'sCollar said:
Barca getting rid of their manager. Klopp suits their style, it just makes sense to me. Klopp to United makes no sense.
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At Barcelona he would have to deliver the title pretty quickly or he is gone. He doesn't strike me as the manager to jump from team to team, had Dortmund not been losing their key players continually I would have confidently expected him to stay until he decided to go for the Germany job. I could see United fans and board having more patience with him.

That said, you are right. Our style is everything Dortmund are not.

I still think he will stay at Dortmund but I wouldn't be surprised if he left.
 
If Fergie had managed in relatively short spells at 6 different clubs in 4 different countries, there's a pretty good chance he'd have had a bad 6 month period here or there.

Van Gaal wins trophies, develops players and plays attractive football. Holding one half season against him seems somewhat churlish to me given what he's achieved in the game.
 
When judging his time at Barcelona you need to bear in mind the quality of their squad at the time - it was the very period when they were spunking several million on players like Rochemback, Geovanni and Christanval with little quality to show for it and those were not his transfers I think.

They had a 100% record in the Champions League at the time of his departure too which softens the blow. Their league campaign was nothing but a disaster though, they went through a period when they got 1 point in 7 games I think.
 
devilish said:
I wont be surprised if VG spends little next summer. He would want to assess the team (which means the like of Ando, Zaha and Powell would return) and he's got a reputation of working with what he has
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Another year of assessment and Ando? Surely that can't be any good. He is still a risk with his reputation, short-term outlook and the way he eventually leaves clubs. If we are looking beyond Moyes, I rather we go for a better and younger prospect.

I don't agree with the "Anyone but Moyes" philosophy that a lot of people have adopted. It's not personal.
 
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