United linked with van Gaal in the meeja

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ZDwyr said:
Doesn't sound good at all then. I kind of hope (if Moyes gets sacked) that we don't get him.
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Well don't just take his word for it. Sure he falls out with some. He falls out with the lazy stars, people like Luca Toni who aren't really hard workers, can't even be bothered learning the language. Hardly any different to Fergie is it? He fell out with the board at prior clubs too because Bayern and Barca both don't give the managers complete freedom like what we did with Fergie, they have plenty of people always stepping in and signing players and what not.

Personality wise it's not a big deal. I'd rather someone like him, who will guarantee the respect of the players, rather then someone like Moyes who is a bit of a pussy, or just a 'nice guy'. Almost all top managers are a bit crazy, or strict, or just arrogant people. Mourinho, Fergie, Klopp, Simeone, Van Gaal. All the same. Pep you could say seems like a nice guy but he'd be the exception to the rule if he is, not sure what he's actually like personality wise.

Most Bayern fans say they wouldn't be where they are without him. He laid the foundations for the new team, rebuilt them and made huge changes to turn them into what they are now.
 
walsh said:
I think, possibly in relation to the Spurs job, there was talk about van Gaal bringing De Boer in as his assistant and then FDB taking over after a few years. No idea if this is feasible or realistic, however.
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Has this kind of thing ever happened? Why would De Boer go from being a manager to an assistant. He's at Ajax at the moment and would prefer to stay there over becoming our assistant bloody manager.
 
Revan said:
Where will ha play though? I don't think that LVG ever played 442. Rooney isn't good enough to play as a wing forward (he doesn't have the dynamics for that) and I think that Van Gaal will prefer someone with better technique as an attacking midfielder. Of course, there is the possibility of Van Gaal adapting and finding a place for him, but I just can't see it.
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As Van Gaal himself admits, what formation he uses is changeable, but the philosophy is not. In his career his teams have played 3-4-3, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, and 4-2-3-1, but the ethos behind these teams has always remained constant:
Maintain possession/constant circulation of the ball
Build attacks from the back/If an attack cannot be initiated from the midfield, work the ball back to the center-backs or goalkeeper
Width must be attained at all times in the attacking third, whether it be by the winger or fullback
(When playing 4-3-3) A midfield 3 consisting of a holding player, box-to-box, and playmaker
Fluidity of movement, manipulate and create spaces to dominate the opposition
Most importantly, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Every individual must be completely dedicated to working for the collective, or they have no place in the team
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van Gaal's philosophies remain, the formation is adjustable.
 
walsh said:
fecking hell, some of these stories about van Gaal make Sir Alex seem like a pussy cat. I'm not really sure what we need is a strict authoritarian who will rustle lots of feathers and cause some players to become unhappy. Klopp has the personality as well as the managerial ability in my opinion. What would the long term plan be if we were to bring in van Gaal?
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I love Klopp but he's definitely one of the crazier managers personality wise. Doesn't mean he's a dick or anything, but he's not like a boring nice guy like Moyes. He'd obviously be my number 1 choice, but what I'm getting at, is that a manager with a strict and big personality like that is someone who we should get. Anyways, the long term plan is Klopp coming in for a few years to get us back up there, competing for trophies, and lay the foundations for the next manager which can be Klopp or Simeone when they are ready to change clubs in 3 years or so. Doubt Klopp will go anywhere before then regardless of the money offered.
 
bosnian_red said:
Well don't just take his word for it. Sure he falls out with some. He falls out with the lazy stars, people like Luca Toni who aren't really hard workers, can't even be bothered learning the language. Hardly any different to Fergie is it? He fell out with the board at prior clubs too because Bayern and Barca both don't give the managers complete freedom like what we did with Fergie, they have plenty of people always stepping in and signing players and what not.

Personality wise it's not a big deal. I'd rather someone like him, who will guarantee the respect of the players, rather then someone like Moyes who is a bit of a pussy, or just a 'nice guy'. Almost all top managers are a bit crazy, or strict, or just arrogant people. Mourinho, Fergie, Klopp, Simeone, Van Gaal. All the same. Pep you could say seems like a nice guy but he'd be the exception to the rule if he is, not sure what he's actually like personality wise.

Most Bayern fans say they wouldn't be where they are without him. He laid the foundations for the new team, rebuilt them and made huge changes to turn them into what they are now.
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He also fell out with the likes of Lucio and Van Bommel.
 
I'd welcome van Gaal, if we can't get Klopp. I'd welcome 'anyone' with an Ajax background, for sure. He might (eventually) walk away leaving OT smouldering behind him but he, instead, may be just what our squad needs. Dave tried to be friendly to all sorts - even the media - and it didn't pay off; van Gaal, in contrast, is a perfectionist (which is one thing he has in common with RVP) - LVG might be a SAFlike figure, a proper boss who puts the evolution & excellence of the team before all else.
 
Revan said:
Where will ha play though? I don't think that LVG ever played 442. Rooney isn't good enough to play as a wing forward (he doesn't have the dynamics for that) and I think that Van Gaal will prefer someone with better technique as an attacking midfielder. Of course, there is the possibility of Van Gaal adapting and finding a place for him, but I just can't see it.
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It's not strictly about formation. Rooney is just a player that most managers would find a way to fit him in as he gives so much to the team especially if you get the best out of him. People love criticizing him obviously, but he was hindered by Moyes' style of play as well as everyone else. Get him back to his best and he'll remind everyone how good he is. People make excuses (including me) for everyone, but when it comes to rooney, people on here aren't willing to give him the same benefit of doubt strangely. Can't be arsed to find them all, but loads of managers have commented about how much they like Rooney before.
 
I think people will be surprised with Rooney+van Gaal if he comes. He's very adaptable, and that's key for LvG. If he can fit the philosophy, he'll be fine. I don't think RvP is as much of a golden boy to him as everyone thinks, either. When LvG first became NT manager I'm sure he had an interview and stated that RvP would need to compete for his spot with Huntelaar, and the reaction of RvP is what got him the captaincy. RvP and Rooney will definitely have to prove themselves. Who says he won't drop both?

I also think Welbeck could be integral to his plans if he were to come. Almost like the Bayern equivalent of van Gaal's Müller.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's not strictly about formation. Rooney is just a player that most managers would find a way to fit him in as he gives so much to the team especially if you get the best out of him. People love criticizing him obviously, but he was hindered by Moyes' style of play as well as everyone else. Get him back to his best and he'll remind everyone how good he is. People make excuses (including me) for everyone, but when it comes to rooney, people on here aren't willing to give him the same benefit of doubt strangely. Can't be arsed to find them all, but loads of managers have commented about how much they like Rooney before.
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But people on here view managers praising Rooney as "mind games"
 
bosnian_red said:
Well Van Bommel has always been a cnut so there's not much surprise there. Fergie fell out with Beckham, Keano, Stam, RVN, and many others. Doesn't mean anything.
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Van Bommel was only known to be a cnut on the pitch. He was always a well respected professional off of it.
 
DWelbz19 said:
I think people will be surprised with Rooney+van Gaal if he comes. He's very adaptable, and that's key for LvG. If he can fit the philosophy, he'll be fine. I don't think RvP is as much of a golden boy to him as everyone thinks, either. When LvG first became NT manager I'm sure he had an interview and stated that RvP would need to compete for his spot with Huntelaar, and the reaction of RvP is what got him the captaincy. RvP and Rooney will definitely have to prove themselves. Who says he won't drop both?

I also think Welbeck could be integral to his plans if he were to come. Almost like the Bayern equivalent of van Gaal's Müller.
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This is the same guy that threw a wobbly at Sir Alex for daring to play him in midfield instead of upfront for a few games? I don't think its a question if Rooney is adaptable.. he is, but will he actually be willing to accept a new role LvG would give him?
 
SteveJ said:
I'd welcome van Gaal, if we can't get Klopp. I'd welcome 'anyone' with an Ajax background, for sure. He might (eventually) walk away leaving OT smouldering behind him but he, instead, may be just what our squad needs. Dave tried to be friendly to all sorts - even the media - and it didn't pay off; van Gaal, in contrast, is a perfectionist (which is one thing he has in common with RVP) - LVG might be a SAFlike figure, a proper boss who puts the evolution & excellence of the team before all else.
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I was actually thinking along these lines a week or so back when the stories of the meeting surfaced - he's essentially Moyes' antithesis. Hire him for a few years then when it falls apart, we'll get the synthesis. Boom, managerial dialectics!
Danny1982 said:
Yes, won the double (+ champions league final) and finished 3rd in his 3rd year and he was sacked..

And people are calling us "impatient" with Moyes. :lol:
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He definitely won the double in his first season, he won the Eredivisie in 08/09 with AZ, then the Bundesliga in 09/10 with Bayern.
 
Ubik said:
He definitely won the double in his first season, he won the Eredivisie in 08/09 with AZ, then the Bundesliga in 09/10 with Bayern.
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Yup corrected it. I remembered too that he won the league on his first season, so checked it and corrected it.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Van Bommel was only known to be a cnut on the pitch. He was always a well respected professional off of it.
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So what about Fergie falling out with RVN and Beckham? All managers have their reasons to fall out with players, shit happens. You can't base the quality of a manager because of it. Loads of current Bayern players are very thankful to Van Gaal and how he molded them and turned them into the team they are now. RVP and Van Gaal are also very close.
 
This summer will be very important to us in terms of bringing quality players in, some people seem to suggest he is not great in the transfer market?
:nervous:
 
El-Manos said:
This summer will be very important to us in terms of bringing quality players in, some people seem to suggest he is not great in the transfer market?
:nervous:
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Has he ever really been left to decide transfers for himself? which in and of itself may be an issue? hasnt he generally worked under a general manager? stating the obvious... but we don't have one, does this guy have his own scouting system/network?
 
El-Manos said:
This summer will be very important to us in terms of bringing quality players in, some people seem to suggest he is not great in the transfer market?
:nervous:
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LVG is even less muppet than Fergie. For all my excitment that Moyes time is to an end and he is being replaced by a manager I really like, the muppet part of me is unhappy. No value on market unfortunately for Van Gaal.
 
Revan said:
LVG is even less muppet than Fergie. For all my excitment that Moyes time is to an end and he is being replaced by a manager I really like, the muppet part of me is unhappy. No value on market unfortunately for Van Gaal.
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No wonder the Glazers like him so:lol:. It's evident we need to make signings though, slightly worried that we'll be in a similar position if we fail to strengthen again.
 
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Van Gaal is an abrasive personality but lets face it he's managed at Barca and Bayern. Two clubs where the managers need to be abrasive and look after themselves. The pressure from the boardroom and press is intense.

Perhaps somewhere like United where the board are likely to be a lot more welcoming, give him full backing and let him get on with it he'll be a bit mellower.

I also do think some of our players need a kick up the backside after this season. A LVG type manager may work out well.

Klopp ofcourse remains the ideal choice but incase he's unattainable, LVG for a 3 years or so could be great.
 
Watching that FIFA interview with Van Gaal, he says he always likes to keep one coach from the previous regime, for their knowledge of the squad and promising youth players.

Not revolutionary but thought it was relevant. Don't think he'd have an issue here with the plethora of ex United players he'd have to choose from who are currently coaches here.
 
Dominos said:
Watching that FIFA interview with Van Gaal, he says he always likes to keep one coach from the previous regime, for their knowledge of the squad and promising youth players.

Not revolutionary but thought it was relevant. Don't think he'd have an issue here with the plethora of ex United players he'd have to choose from who are currently coaches here.
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Sounds like a villain. Kill everyone except one to leave a message of what happened.
 
bosnian_red said:
Rooney seems to be a player most managers would love to have. Say what you want about him, but he's still a top class player and always gives his all on the pitch and can play in a number of positions. He'd obviously like RVP more but I think Van Gaal would get them to work. Nothing more then a gut feeling though.
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What good is it to be able to play in a number of positions if he whines and pouts like a little bitch if a manager doesn't play him in the position Rooney wants to play. That's not the kind of player any manager would love to have.
 
The problems at Bayern...

Maybe all of you remember the World Cup 2010. A lot of the Bayern players had star roles in it - not just the Germans but Arjen Robben, too - and they all played until the final weekend. The problems started afterwards. There was not much preparation and a lot of the players had long injuries or had form problems the season after. Robben was out until January (he was the reason why Rummenigge and the ECA were so keen on a financial agreement if players get injured during international breaks), Ribery missed a lot of that first part of the season, too. The Bayern bench then was not equipped like it is today and the injury problems were immense. So the results were not really that good then.

Midseason Bayern was 5th - 14 points behind the first. (Actually if you only count the second part of the season when the injured came back Bayern would have won the league)

The CL group stage run well - Bayern ended it first without any problems and they got into the quarter final of the cup.

In the CL final of 16th Inter was the opponent. And Bayern played great for the first 150 minutes of that tie - but lost it in the end because of 2 counter attacks... Similar story in the cup.

But the real problem (the missing success in this time could be explained and apart from van Gaal's first year we did not make it further than the quarter finals since 2001!) was that van Gaal and Hoeneß had problems with each other. Both true Alpha males. And you can imagine that there is always players that do not get around with the coach or do not like his style - they come out of their holes if they remark that they can find an ear - and at that time Hoeneß door was wide open...

Today Hoeneß tells that van Gaal was a great coach and that it what he did at Bayern was a blessing - but it took him a year or so to talk like this.
 
Snow said:
Sounds like a villain. Kill everyone except one to leave a message of what happened.
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No. Just sounds smart. You want to have persons around that you trust. Guardiola just did the same at Bayern. He has his assistants from the Barcelona time (Domenic Torrent and Buenaventura) - and Hermann Gerland - the same guy who helped van Gaal get adapted to the league and the players. The goalkeeper coach Tapalovic and two of the fitness coaches stayed from the Heynckes time, too. Peter Hermann, Heynckes' second assistant who was with him at Leverkusen, is assistant coach at Schalke now.

But Hermann Gerland was a great choice. If you look what young ones he brought to the professionals (Heynckes brought him to Bayern when he was first coach and Gerland stayed until 1995 - tried to be first coach and came back again 2001). It started with Babbel and Hamann - Hargreaves - Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Trochowski, Misimovic, Hummels, Badstuber, Müller, Alaba... He was a tough defender when he was a player - and a very tough coach for the U23. He even is more of a discipline fanatic than van Gaal (or Guardiola, he just is the same) is.
 
Thanks for the insight, Blackwidow. :)
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Van Gaal is an abrasive personality but lets face it he's managed at Barca and Bayern. Two clubs where the managers need to be abrasive and look after themselves. The pressure from the boardroom and press is intense.

Perhaps somewhere like United where the board are likely to be a lot more welcoming, give him full backing and let him get on with it he'll be a bit mellower.

I also do think some of our players need a kick up the backside after this season. A LVG type manager may work out well.

Klopp ofcourse remains the ideal choice but incase he's unattainable, LVG for a 3 years or so could be great.
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It's Louis van Gaal, there's no way he'll be mellow. He'll be absolutely batshit, like he always is, falling out with players, insulting the media, showing people his balls, this is what he does. He is 62 years of age, he's not going to alter his entire personality because he's coming on a 2 or 3 year jolly at United before he retires.
 
Blackwidow said:
No. Just sounds smart. You want to have persons around that you trust. Guardiola just did the same at Bayern. He has his assistants from the Barcelona time (Domenic Torrent and Buenaventura) - and Hermann Gerland - the same guy who helped van Gaal get adapted to the league and the players. The goalkeeper coach Tapalovic and two of the fitness coaches stayed from the Heynckes time, too. Peter Hermann, Heynckes' second assistant who was with him at Leverkusen, is assistant coach at Schalke now.

But Hermann Gerland was a great choice. If you look what young ones he brought to the professionals (Heynckes brought him to Bayern when he was first coach and Gerland stayed until 1995 - tried to be first coach and came back again 2001). It started with Babbel and Hamann - Hargreaves - Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Trochowski, Misimovic, Hummels, Badstuber, Müller, Alaba... He was a tough defender when he was a player - and a very tough coach for the U23. He even is more of a discipline fanatic than van Gaal (or Guardiola, he just is the same) is.
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That guy is a legend. I remember Van Gaal saying that he proposed to Van Gaal to get Muller, Badstuber and Alaba to train with the first team, and after they trained Van Gaal decided to use them on the first team.
 
Blackwidow said:
The problems at Bayern...

Maybe all of you remember the World Cup 2010. A lot of the Bayern players had star roles in it - not just the Germans but Arjen Robben, too - and they all played until the final weekend. The problems started afterwards. There was not much preparation and a lot of the players had long injuries or had form problems the season after. Robben was out until January (he was the reason why Rummenigge and the ECA were so keen on a financial agreement if players get injured during international breaks), Ribery missed a lot of that first part of the season, too. The Bayern bench then was not equipped like it is today and the injury problems were immense. So the results were not really that good then.

Midseason Bayern was 5th - 14 points behind the first. (Actually if you only count the second part of the season when the injured came back Bayern would have won the league)

The CL group stage run well - Bayern ended it first without any problems and they got into the quarter final of the cup.

In the CL final of 16th Inter was the opponent. And Bayern played great for the first 150 minutes of that tie - but lost it in the end because of 2 counter attacks... Similar story in the cup.

But the real problem (the missing success in this time could be explained and apart from van Gaal's first year we did not make it further than the quarter finals since 2001!) was that van Gaal and Hoeneß had problems with each other. Both true Alpha males. And you can imagine that there is always players that do not get around with the coach or do not like his style - they come out of their holes if they remark that they can find an ear - and at that time Hoeneß door was wide open...

Today Hoeneß tells that van Gaal was a great coach and that it what he did at Bayern was a blessing - but it took him a year or so to talk like this.
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That seems to be broadly in keeping with this piece on what went wrong:


Van Gaal's failings were many
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/raphael_honigstein/04/14/vangaal.bayern/
 
Dominos said:
Watching that FIFA interview with Van Gaal, he says he always likes to keep one coach from the previous regime, for their knowledge of the squad and promising youth players.

Not revolutionary but thought it was relevant. Don't think he'd have an issue here with the plethora of ex United players he'd have to choose from who are currently coaches here.
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Rene would be a logical choice as he knows the club inside out.,
 
Blackwidow said:
No. Just sounds smart. You want to have persons around that you trust. Guardiola just did the same at Bayern. He has his assistants from the Barcelona time (Domenic Torrent and Buenaventura) - and Hermann Gerland - the same guy who helped van Gaal get adapted to the league and the players. The goalkeeper coach Tapalovic and two of the fitness coaches stayed from the Heynckes time, too. Peter Hermann, Heynckes' second assistant who was with him at Leverkusen, is assistant coach at Schalke now.

But Hermann Gerland was a great choice. If you look what young ones he brought to the professionals (Heynckes brought him to Bayern when he was first coach and Gerland stayed until 1995 - tried to be first coach and came back again 2001). It started with Babbel and Hamann - Hargreaves - Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Trochowski, Misimovic, Hummels, Badstuber, Müller, Alaba... He was a tough defender when he was a player - and a very tough coach for the U23. He even is more of a discipline fanatic than van Gaal (or Guardiola, he just is the same) is.
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Are you saying that villains aren't smart? Some aren't but the ones that have used this tactic are.
 
Infra-red said:
That seems to be broadly in keeping with this piece on what went wrong:


Van Gaal's failings were many
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/raphael_honigstein/04/14/vangaal.bayern/
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A lot would not have been a problem without the injuries, without the results caused by this and without the Alpha male story between him and Hoeneß...

Gomez and Tymo are gone because they did not match the system. Not really with van Gaal, not really with Heynckes and not with Guardiola.

Van Bommel was short before his career end, did not perform very well on the pitch anymore - but was the captain and center of the dressing room. It did not end nice - but at the end it was better that it ended like this than if it would have a slow end. It was the right time for Lahm and Schweinsteiger to take over.

The Neuer-Kraft-story was part of his fights with Hoeneß.
 
Not trying to be stupid, but are 2 trophies in the last 15 years or so really what we should be after?

It's actually kind of shocking how few really progressive, 'new' managers are currently around Europe.
 
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