United linked with van Gaal in the meeja

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Blasphemy said:
There's not a manager in football who doesn't come with downsides. Mourinho's a cnut and Guardiola's never managed a squad as poor as ours or so unsuited to his style of football. There's no perfect appointment out there, but there are a lot of appointments better than Moyes.
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Yeah, but "better than Moyes" can't be the criteria.
 
Blasphemy said:
Ah so now we're back to the SAF could do no wrong argument, when you just admitted wasn't true five minutes ago. Quality posting.
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Are you completely retarded?

Ferguson wasn't perfect and I never said he was, he was at the club for 25 years so of course he made mistakes. I doubt you can go through one day without cocking something up.

The isolated mistakes do not change the fact that he was about a perfect a manager as you can get - this is what I said. It's not difficult. No manager will stay at a club for a quarter of a decade without getting a few things wrong, it's impossible. But on the vast, vast majority of occasions Ferguson got it spot on.

Comparing him to Van Gaal is a huge disservice, he was never sacked the way van Gaal was at Bayern or Barclona, and his management style never had the scale of disruption that Van Gaal's has.
 
Blackwidow said:
Manchester United does not have the open training sessions Bayern has. The Bayern fans in the first years were really surprised about the new style training sessions...

If you want to have a longterm success things like this need to be. At Bayern they paid out after a very short time.

I do not know if the Caf will hate him - but there would be very controversial oppinions and heavy discussions starting with the choice of players etc. The ones that want changes and like a special playing style, that like it when somebody promotes youth will love him. The ones that need that superstar including superstar treatment will hate him. The ones that expect success from the first minute will hate him, too.

But if he gets time - he will need 2 or 3 years to fully get his plans through - the time he had at Ajax and Alkmaar but not at Bayern - he will have built something for a future. You need somebody like him to be able to form that. If not Manchester United does it - it will be Tottenham and all will look greedy to Tottenham the next years...

At Alkmaar he wanted to quit and lay down his job in 2008 - but the players and organization and fans persuaded him to go on - and in the next year they won the league!

There is nobody with such an eye for young players - even the odd ones - like he has. He will find that jewel and promote it and take care of it if it is there. You can be sure about that. And nobody that can built up a new structure and a new playing style like he does. He has flaws - but some of his flaws just have to be. Sometimes being diplomatic might only help on the short run but only makes bad things worse...
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Hmmm... I'm warming to him already...
 
Yeah I do want to point out that the issue I brought up was not Sir Alex = LVG but rather about the confrontational nature of the two.
 
Theon said:
The isolated mistakes do not change the fact that he was about a perfect a manager as you can get - this is what I said. It's not difficult.
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That's not what you said though is it?

This is what you said.

Van Gaal's antics have actively damaged his success at clubs, which wasn't the case with Ferguson.
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When clearly Fergie did do things that harmed the club because of personal vendetta's even concerning things which had no relation at all to football with McManus and Magnier or hating Beckham's celebrity life.
 
Blackwidow said:
Manchester United does not have the open training sessions Bayern has. The Bayern fans in the first years were really surprised about the new style training sessions...

If you want to have a longterm success things like this need to be. At Bayern they paid out after a very short time.

I do not know if the Caf will hate him - but there would be very controversial oppinions and heavy discussions starting with the choice of players etc. The ones that want changes and like a special playing style, that like it when somebody promotes youth will love him. The ones that need that superstar including superstar treatment will hate him. The ones that expect success from the first minute will hate him, too.

But if he gets time - he will need 2 or 3 years to fully get his plans through - the time he had at Ajax and Alkmaar but not at Bayern - he will have built something for a future. You need somebody like him to be able to form that. If not Manchester United does it - it will be Tottenham and all will look greedy to Tottenham the next years...

At Alkmaar he wanted to quit and lay down his job in 2008 - but the players and organization and fans persuaded him to go on - and in the next year they won the league!

There is nobody with such an eye for young players - even the odd ones - like he has. He will find that jewel and promote it and take care of it if it is there. You can be sure about that. And nobody that can built up a new structure and a new playing style like he does. He has flaws - but some of his flaws just have to be. Sometimes being diplomatic might only help on the short run but only makes bad things worse...
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They always need time dont they, sometimes they dont get it.
 
No offense to Van Gaal, but I would pick 4-5 managers before I would pick him.
 
Escobar said:
Of course he's doing well but it might be a one off season with a lot of luck. Let's see if he's able to remain successful
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That's my fear too. Remember that Leverkusen manager from 2002 who nearly won the treble?

Yeah I can't remember his name too after his one off season.
 
Escobar said:
Of course he's doing well but it might be a one off season with a lot of luck. Let's see if he's able to remain successful
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He already won two Argentinian League titles, A Europa League and a Cope Del Rey. Where the hell was the luck for him this season? He had to sell his best player in the summer to Monaco, was given none of the money to reinvest and then went and knocked two of the best three teams in world football off their perch across a 38 game league season with a club assembled for less than the cost of 1 of their oppositions players. Where's the luck in that?
 
I think its to early for Simeone but to called him a one season wonder is unfair. Hes won the Europa Leauge and Copa del ray in the last few years.
 
Blasphemy said:
He already won two Argentinian League titles, A Europa League and a Cope Del Rey. Where the hell was the luck for him this season? He had to sell his best player in the summer to Monaco, was given none of the money to reinvest and then went and knocked two of the best three teams in world football off their perch across a 38 game league season with a club assembled for less than the cost of 1 of their oppositions players. Where's the luck in that?
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Exactly, he's done wonders since his appointment at Atletico. One season wonder my arse
 
Simeone is definitely a better pick over van Gaal IMO. Its the same problem as with Klopp though - nearly impossible to get him on board.
 
Blasphemy said:
I don't disagree he was as perfect a manager as we could want.

But clearly he did let his antics get in the way of the club at time, just like Van Gaal does.
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Nowhere near to the same extent as Van Gaal, that's the point. They both have a confrontational trait in them, but lots of managers do and it's too broad a trait as to be meaningful as a comparison.

Mourinho can be confrontational, but like Ferguson it never prevented him succeeding at clubs. Van Gaal is different, for him it's been on another level entirely, causing a complete breakdown in relations and necessitated him getting sacked. Ferguson could be ruthless at times but it's just not the same.
 
I don't think van Gaal really should be the guy to go for. He has a WC team to take care off during the summer and won't be able to start his work here before the pre-season is practically over. On top of that he has a record of sooner or later pissing everyone off at the clubs he works at and would therefor probably not last longer then 2 or 3 seasons.

We should go for a viable solution that has the potential to last for a long time. I would love to say we give Ole a shot but after this season another experiment might be the wrong approach so I can understand people who favor the "experienced" option even when it only lasts one or two seasons and maybe it's the right call, bring in a van Gaal until someone better is available who could make it here in the long run.
 
He's 63 though.

How long will he manage? 4 or 5 years perhaps?

I guess if we got 3 or 4 years out of him, building a solid framework for the next guy to work with, it might be worthwhile. Perhaps he can warm the seat until Klopp becomes available in 2018?
 
marjen said:
He's 63 though.

How long will he manage? 4 or 5 years perhaps?

I guess if we got 3 or 4 years out of him, building a solid framework for the next guy to work with, it might be worthwhile. Perhaps he can warm the seat until Klopp becomes available in 2018?
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3-5 years of success is a great innings in modern football. If we keep up this persuit of the new SAF it's going to run us into the ground.
 
marjen said:
He's 63 though.

How long will he manage? 4 or 5 years perhaps?

I guess if we got 3 or 4 years out of him, building a solid framework for the next guy to work with, it might be worthwhile. Perhaps he can warm the seat until Klopp becomes available in 2018?
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and/or Mourinho falls out with Roman again by that time, you get the feeling if Chelsea don't win the league/CL this or next season, he'd again be under scrutiny, as Chelsea managers often seem to be.
 
Kevin said:
Not sure about maintaining a British core but what he does do is not care about reputation or age and his motto is directly in line with United's philosophy: if you're good enough, you're old enough.

He has a great eye for talent and firmly believes in looking at the youth system first, before going out and buy. He was the one who promoted Kroos, Badstuber and Alaba and went to a CL final with them. His Ajax team was also full of youth products and young players.
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This makes me happy.

Being that we are an English club we will hopefully get some English youngsters and promote some as well to maintain that identity as well as getting some foreigners too.
 
Theon said:
Nowhere near to the same extent as Van Gaal, that's the point. They both have a confrontational trait in them, but lots of managers do and it's too broad a trait as to be meaningful as a comparison.

Mourinho can be confrontational, but like Ferguson it never prevented him succeeding at clubs. Van Gaal is different, for him it's been on another level entirely, causing a complete breakdown in relations and necessitated him getting sacked. Ferguson could be ruthless at times but it's just not the same.
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Who would you rather than Van Gaal? I think after the Moyes situation we need a manager who's won a league title at a major league. I don't want another punt on a promising manager with relative success at a smaller club where we assume he can step up.
 
After the players disgraceful lack of effort under Moyes I'm all for getting in someone with a big ego who isn't afraid of ruffling a few feathers. Especially if that person has the cv to back it up. Van Gaal's abrasive personality could actually be a positive.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
After the players disgraceful lack of effort under Moyes I'm all for getting in someone with a big ego who isn't afraid of ruffling a few feathers. Especially if that person has the cv to back it up. Van Gaal's abrasive personality could actually be a positive.
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I can't help but agree. I think Moyes didn't have the force of will to put all those egos in place, sad as that might be. Someone like Van Gaal, who has shown he doesn't mind smacking a player back down if they get out of hand, might be perfect to arrest this mediocrity that our players have deemed acceptable.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
After the players disgraceful lack of effort under Moyes I'm all for getting in someone with a big ego who isn't afraid of ruffling a few feathers. Especially if that person has the cv to back it up. Van Gaal's abrasive personality could actually be a positive.
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This.

The only concern for me is this world cup job he's got. Hopefully we're able to do business before he's at United with players knowing he is the one coming in.

We'd play good football and that's the main thing.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
After the players disgraceful lack of effort under Moyes I'm all for getting in someone with a big ego who isn't afraid of ruffling a few feathers. Especially if that person has the cv to back it up. Van Gaal's abrasive personality could actually be a positive.
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I agree. I also believe a merry-go-round of managers is inevitable anyway so starting with van Gaal to at least have an instant impact on the players we currently have would be welcome from me.

I wouldn't expect longevity from anyone we employ now, they have to earn that through results.
 
How does he line the team up?

The thing with Moyes is, even if he became a success it would not have been playing the football I wanted to see.
 
One thing I'm happy about now is we will probably see the best out of Mata, Van Persie, Kagawa, Januzaj, Welbeck, Rooney etc

Kagawa will probably stay as Hopefully Van Gaal see's Kagawa as a good player, unlike Moyes

Interesting to see his views on Powell too.

Hopefully He also see's Rooney as an important player.

Also can he revive the careers of Cleverley, Zaha etc? Perhaps even Ando???

Interesting to see how that goes.
 
Alock1 said:
This.

The only concern for me is this world cup job he's got. Hopefully we're able to do business before he's at United with players knowing he is the one coming in.

We'd play good football and that's the main thing.
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Yeah, that's a big negative for me too. We could do without another manager rocking up in July and trying to assess the squad afresh.
 
RedStarUnited said:
How does he line the team up?

The thing with Moyes is, even if he became a success it would not have been playing the football I wanted to see.
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I remember him playing 343 at times at Barca, then 433, at Bayern I think they moved to a more 4231 with Roben and Ribery on the flanks in his time there.?
 
Boo hoo, journos.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
After the players disgraceful lack of effort under Moyes I'm all for getting in someone with a big ego who isn't afraid of ruffling a few feathers. Especially if that person has the cv to back it up. Van Gaal's abrasive personality could actually be a positive.
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Definitely.

Ive felt quite underwhelmed by the prospect of Van Gaal in recent weeks but the idea is growing on me. At least we know he'd have the confidence and strength of character to make an assessment about how to get the best out of our players and then implement it. The most obvious example being how to resolve the Rooney - RVP - Mata conundrum.
 
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