United linked with van Gaal in the meeja

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The Mangala price is media suspicion 40m for an unproven CB is utterly crazy and the only club stupid enough to pay that much would be City.

My values are based on a few things, 1. Reus is prodominantly a winger who can play on the inside rleft? look at players who are considered "better than him" Bale, Ronaldo, Ribery, Lavezzi, Hazard weve already got into the 38m region with Hazard and that was with a ridiculous agent fee so to me 35m represents a realistic amount padded, to the player, with an astronomical wage compared to what he is on, he may well be tempted to push for the move.

Hummels I can agree is harder to guage since he is another darling, but again wed most likely triple his wage, hed be moving to an elite level club with a friend in Reus to work under a previous mentor in Van Gaal. So the figure I came to, look at the top defenders in europe and tell me one single one that was bought for more than 35-40m, I think the most expensive one in recent times was Luiz? 25m. The most expensive Centre back of all time is Thiago at 35m are you telling me Hummels would eclipse Thiago? who came from an elite level club and went to an overpaying sugar daddy club??
:lol:

Do you ever think before you write something, at least for a second? How do you come up with nonsense like that? I mean, it's so obvious that you know absolutely nothing about the players you constantly talk about, that you haven't followed their careers at all. If you're trying to pretend you do, at least have a quick look at wikipedia and make up stories based on the most basic facts which you can find on the internet within a few seconds instead of inventing stuff all the time :lol:. It's incredible. It's also fascinating, I'm really wondering how long it takes until Sphaero gives up on explaining the reality about Dortmund and their players to you.
 
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I'm convinced SolidState is a WUM. It's the only way to explain some of his posts.
 
18m plus chica and Kags. Pretty much a perfect deal for Dortmund.
Apart from that part where they happen to lose their best player (Reus) along with Lewandowski.

I'm sure they're salivating at the prospect of pocket change (in football terms) and two inferior players
 
Im not sure if you are serious or not. Why would Madrid buy Reus and why would Reus want to go to bench warm with Bale and Ronaldo in the squad?? What do you think they are worth together? do you think youll get 60+ for both or either because if you do your in dream land. Youll be lucky to get 30m for Hummels and 35m for Reus. You cant just slap magical figures on players and think "yep thats the market value" if you did that who would bid for him that he would sign for? 2 clubs? United and City? considering Barca and Madrid have players that are arguably better in his position?
Why would Reus warm the bench for Bale when he is a superior player to Bale in almost every aspect?

Both of them together (if BVB decides to sell, and assuming that there aren't clauses) will cost at least 80m though I think that it is more likely to be around 100m. Reus won't go for less than 60m (assumign that he signs a new contract that gets rid of that clause) and Hummels is one of the best in his position (when the likes of Mangala are reported to be worth 30m+ and Marquinhos cost mroe than that, then I think that Hummels will easily go for 40m). If you think that a club can get both of them for only 60m then you are really in deluded land.

On your another post, I don't know who rates Bale, Hazard or Lavezzi higher than Reus. The only winger who is better than him is Ronaldo.
 
Apart from that part where they happen to lose their best player (Reus) along with Lewandowski.

I'm sure they're salivating at the prospect of pocket change (in football terms) and two inferior players

... And if he wants to leave? There basically getting a top quality finisher for nothing. Tell me what striker they could buy that would score more than 15 goals for less than £15m?
 
... And if he wants to leave? There basically getting a top quality finisher for nothing. Tell me what striker they could buy that would score more than 15 goals for less than £15m?

Adrian Ramos. Joins us in the summer for around 10 Mil. €.
 
Why would Reus warm the bench for Bale when he is a superior player to Bale in almost every aspect?

Both of them together (if BVB decides to sell, and assuming that there aren't clauses) will cost at least 80m though I think that it is more likely to be around 100m. Reus won't go for less than 60m (assumign that he signs a new contract that gets rid of that clause) and Hummels is one of the best in his position (when the likes of Mangala are reported to be worth 30m+ and Marquinhos cost mroe than that, then I think that Hummels will easily go for 40m). If you think that a club can get both of them for only 60m then you are really in deluded land.

On your another post, I don't know who rates Bale, Hazard or Lavezzi higher than Reus. The only winger who is better than him is Ronaldo.

Here we go again.... Can we just admit Bale is a top class player. He has outperformed all the cafe youth darlings this year (Gotze, Neymar, Draxler,) and will only get better. Reus will need to come to a club like us before he can be considered at Gareth Bale's level.
 
Here we go again.... Can we just admit Bale is a top class player. He has outperformed all the cafe youth darlings this year (Gotze, Neymar, Draxler,) and will only get better. Reus will need to come to a club like us before he can be considered at Gareth Bale's level.
Or he could outperform Bale in the CL instead.
 
Here we go again.... Can we just admit Bale is a top class player. He has outperformed all the cafe youth darlings this year (Gotze, Neymar, Draxler,) and will only get better. Reus will need to come to a club like us before he can be considered at Gareth Bale's level.
Why would he do so? Dortmund have been better than us in the last 3 seasons. Why would he need to go to a club that is weaker than Dortmund in order to be considered better than Bale.

Dortmund were very near elminating Madrid with their second team. Reus was phenomenal in those games, easily the best player there.

I never said that Bale isn't better than those three you mentioned (heck, has anyone said that Draxler is better than Bale) and he is a fantastic player. Better also than other players like Sanchez or Neymar. Not better than Reus though.

I think that when people talk for players they should at-least watch them playing sometimes because it is clear that a few posters here don't have the slightiest idea about BVB players and the club in general.
 
Why would he do so? Dortmund have been better than us in the last 3 seasons. Why would he need to go to a club that is weaker than Dortmund in order to be considered better than Bale.

Dortmund were very near elminating Madrid with their second team. Reus was phenomenal in those games, easily the best player there.

I never said that Bale isn't better than those three you mentioned (heck, has anyone said that Draxler is better than Bale) and he is a fantastic player. Better also than other players like Sanchez or Neymar. Not better than Reus though.

I think that when people talk for players they should at-least watch them playing sometimes because it is clear that a few posters here don't have the slightiest idea about BVB players and the club in general.

Come on man... Do i really have to explain why playing for us would put him on a far greater scale than he is now? People are well aware of Dortmund even to the point even to the point that the majority of there players don't excel after leaving Klopp.
 
... And if he wants to leave? There basically getting a top quality finisher for nothing. Tell me what striker they could buy that would score more than 15 goals for less than £15m?
Hernandez is light years away from Lewandowski's level. If they're going to supplement his loss by also swapping Reus and a bit of wonga for Hernandez, I'd question the intelligence of the people running that club.

As much as I'd love to see Reus in a United shirt I really don't see it happening - particularly now without the CL. If Dortmund can recover from losing Lewandowski and get by with less injuries next season, that gap will be reduced and they'll be back in with a shout. Let's not forget how close they were to overturning Madrid too. It might look bad as a United fan to say this but I think he'd be mad to leave them for us for football reasons.
 
People are so arrogant at times when it comes to signing players and even managers. It's baffling to me considering our track record.
 
:smirk: The rest of Europe is scared.

I don´t need Europe to be scared. Europe probably did not even bat an eye when we signed a Japanese from the other side of the world for basically nothing, a struggling Polish attacker for free, a Gündogan for 6 Mil. €, a Hummels for 5 Mil. € or a Lewandowski for 4,5 Mil. €.

I don´t need fabricated hype by the media or transfer fees, because I have enough trust in our excellent officials and one of the best coaches in the world. Oliver Kirch, Erik Durm or Milos Jojic are players, whom many on here have probably not even heard of and yet they were vital pieces in outplaying the mighty Real Madrid and bringing them on the edge of defeat after a 3-0 advantage.

Keep believing that United just need to snap their fingers and key players of Dortmund will come running along no matter the situation. Won´t make it more realistic, though, because pretty much everything speaks against Hummels and Reus leaving this Summer.
 
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@ Sphaero - fair point well made.

The powers that be at Utd should look and learn.

Be smart - Invest in scouting and top quality coaching rather than throwing £30M around as if it were small change.
 
This thread is going a bit off topic. Can it go back to just talking about van Gaal please? Thanks.
 
I think van Gaal is the right man at the right time for our club. He will restore our foundation and will build a solid core to our team and I'm sure we will become more comfortable on the ball with him in charge. He's coming at a time when some of our experienced players who've been here for many years are reaching their end of their career with some even leaving this summer. I believe he's the best candidate to rebuild for the future.
 
@Sphaero

When was the last of those players signed? It is probable that you lucked out in the transfer market at that time. I find it unlikely that the Dortmund model will continue to bear fruit ripe enough to keep you at Europe's very top table for a long period of time.

It is all about the money over a period of time, which is why at least two of the players used in your example will not be lining up for Dortmund next season.

I am not sure with Hummel's but with the ongoing speculation surrounding Reus then I would expect that there has been some dialogue and encouragement from his agent. Of course the agent might have a few agendas on the go as reason for that, but I feel that there is some smoke on that front.
 
I don´t need Europe to be scared. Europe probably did not even bat an eye when we signed a Japanese from the other side of the world for basically nothing, a struggling Polish attacker for free, a Gündogan for 6 Mil. €, a Hummels for 5 Mil. € or a Lewandowski for 4,5 Mil. €.

I don´t need fabricated hype by the media or transfer fees, because I have enough trust in our excellent officials and one of the best coaches in the world. Oliver Kirch, Erik Durm or Milos Jojic are players, whom many on here have probably not even heard of and yet they were vital pieces in outplaying the mighty Real Madrid and bringing them on the edge of defeat after a 3-0 advantage.

Keep believing that United just need to snap their fingers and key players of Dortmund will come running along no matter the situation. Won´t make it more realistic, though, because pretty much everything speaks against Hummels and Reus leaving this Summer.

Just going to say, I share your exact same sentiment.

1: United won't get Hummels or Reus with a snap of their fingers, in fact they won't get them at all unless they spend galactico style (and even then doubtfull).

2: United could learn a thing or two from Dortmund about scouting and taking a risk with younger unexperienced, unknown players that aren't big names yet and are actually availble with a snap of the finger and won't cost a fortune. In fact it is shamefull on our half to be a lesser club than Dortmund these days, we have way more money available then you guys, our club is one of the biggest sportsbrands in the world and could attract players and coaches etc alot easier than the Dortmund brand. Yet you guys are in the CL, we aren't, you were in the final last year, we haven't been near it since 2011, you have a hot team playing sexy football that most of our fans wank themseleves silly about and you got a coach there that most guys on here even desire more than their own wife. While we waste our money and effort on players like Cleverley, Anderson and Fellaini, we bring a Scholes back and let a Pogba go for free, we can't figure out anything else but Moyes or Giggs to be our coaches simply because they fit the "tradition" of this club. We don't want to spend our money on players like Hazard or Willian etc but are more than happy to overpay for the likes of Young, Smalling etc on the basis of them being british. We prefer to buy an injurry prone 30+ forward in RVP instead of signing up a promising Lewandowski, an only see what we are really missing when it is too late. We prefer to buy strikers and number 10's to field 3 teams on the pitch instead of looking after our midfield or wings. We can't figure out how to play sexy modern football if our lives depended on it and without our SAF we are as helpless as a baby and even let teams like Liverpool and Arsenal overtake us in the space of one season. We are a big club stuck in old useless traditions, being led by hopeless romantics and we aren't using our good position in terms of finances and club attraction at all, already for a very long time and clubs that in are in far more diffifcult situations like ours: Atletico, you guys for example are overtaking us on the sportive side like Usain Bolt would overtake a fat lazzy guy in a sprint. It is painfull and it is embarrassing. I do my hat of for Dortmund and I can't but turn my head in shame for my own club.
 
While we waste our money and effort on players like Cleverley, Anderson and Fellaini, we bring a Scholes back and let a Pogba go for free, we can't figure out anything else but Moyes or Giggs to be our coaches simply because they fit the "tradition" of this club. We don't want to spend our money on players like Hazard or Willian etc but are more than happy to overpay for the likes of Young, Smalling etc on the basis of them being british. We prefer to buy an injurry prone 30+ forward in RVP instead of signing up a promising Lewandowski, an only see what we are really missing when it is too late. We prefer to buy strikers and number 10's to field 3 teams on the pitch instead of looking after our midfield or wings. We can't figure out how to play sexy modern football if our lives depended on it and without our SAF we are as helpless as a baby and even let teams like Liverpool and Arsenal overtake us in the space of one season. We are a big club stuck in old useless traditions, being led by hopeless romantics and we aren't using our good position in terms of finances and club attraction at all, already for a very long time and clubs that in are in far more diffifcult situations like ours
Did you copy and paste this from the Wiki page for "The United Way"?
 
Just going to say, I share your exact same sentiment.

1: United won't get Hummels or Reus with a snap of their fingers, in fact they won't get them at all unless they spend galactico style (and even then doubtfull).

2: United could learn a thing or two from Dortmund about scouting and taking a risk with younger unexperienced, unknown players that aren't big names yet and are actually availble with a snap of the finger and won't cost a fortune. In fact it is shamefull on our half to be a lesser club than Dortmund these days, we have way more money available then you guys, our club is one of the biggest sportsbrands in the world and could attract players and coaches etc alot easier than the Dortmund brand. Yet you guys are in the CL, we aren't, you were in the final last year, we haven't been near it since 2011, you have a hot team playing sexy football that most of our fans wank themseleves silly about and you got a coach there that most guys on here even desire more than their own wife. While we waste our money and effort on players like Cleverley, Anderson and Fellaini, we bring a Scholes back and let a Pogba go for free, we can't figure out anything else but Moyes or Giggs to be our coaches simply because they fit the "tradition" of this club. We don't want to spend our money on players like Hazard or Willian etc but are more than happy to overpay for the likes of Young, Smalling etc on the basis of them being british. We prefer to buy an injurry prone 30+ forward in RVP instead of signing up a promising Lewandowski, an only see what we are really missing when it is too late. We prefer to buy strikers and number 10's to field 3 teams on the pitch instead of looking after our midfield or wings. We can't figure out how to play sexy modern football if our lives depended on it and without our SAF we are as helpless as a baby and even let teams like Liverpool and Arsenal overtake us in the space of one season. We are a big club stuck in old useless traditions, being led by hopeless romantics and we aren't using our good position in terms of finances and club attraction at all, already for a very long time and clubs that in are in far more diffifcult situations like ours: Atletico, you guys for example are overtaking us on the sportive side like Usain Bolt would overtake a fat lazzy guy in a sprint. It is painfull and it is embarrassing. I do my hat of for Dortmund and I can't but turn my head in shame for my own club.

The risk is far too high for a club that wants to compete consistently at the highest level to use the model that Dortmund and Atletico have been successful with in recent years. The biggest price pay a premium for the (relative) security of knowing that they get a top class player, as opposed to taking punts on lesser known players who may or may not succeed. And that's not to say that we haven't made a lot of punts in the last five to ten years, they just haven't worked out.

At the end of the day, paying the premium is the model that works best if you want to consistently compete at the highest levels. You just need the financial muscle to pull it off, in terms of both liquidity and income.
 
In all seriousness though one thing that does excite me about Van Gaal is the potential impact he could have on existing players who arent quite fulfilling their potential, given he is seen as a developer of talent more than a buyer of ready-made stars. Obviously this summer will be different and we need to make some urgent signings. But if he can take Welbeck, Januzaj, perhaps Cleverley, Smalling, Jones, Rafa etc up to the next level, that will stand us in very good stead.

We have so much potential at the club, it just seems to have stalled this year.
 
The risk is far too high for a club that wants to compete consistently at the highest level to use the model that Dortmund and Atletico have been successful with in recent years. The biggest price pay a premium for the (relative) security of knowing that they get a top class player, as opposed to taking punts on lesser known players who may or may not succeed. And that's not to say that we haven't made a lot of punts in the last five to ten years, they just haven't worked out.

At the end of the day, paying the premium is the model that works best if you want to consistently compete at the highest levels. You just need the financial muscle to pull it off, in terms of both liquidity and income.

I agree with this aswell, yet when a club like Dortmund or Atletico are getting better results with a riskier strategy than something is wrong. I agree a big club competitng for a price needs to spend and spend big and not put all their hope on young experinced players but go for the best of the best. But our money goest to Berbatov, Nani, Anderson, Smalling, Jones, Young, Valencia, RVP, Kagawa, Fellaini and at the end of the day these players turn out not be good enough or they don't fit in the system. If we want as a big club and go for the safe strategy of spending big, than atleast do it on the right type of players. And not just players, also coaches. This club has failed itself and alot of people say it is impossible to compete with the likes of Bayern or Real or Barca, but teams like Atletico, Dortmund prove this is far from true, if you just do the right things, bring in the right players, play the correct way, hire the right coach. Why on earth can't a team like United figure out what is the meaning of those words right and correct, in todays world of football, while so many other teams, with far less resources can ?

Commercially we are topclub, best in the world, fantastic management on that part, really people that know what they are doing. But sportively, not so sure, in fact without SAF there to rely on we are a pretty sad bunch of losers. It has always been the same at this club, oh we aren't spending our money on this or that player (incert any name we have been linked with over the past couple of years: Di Maria, Bale, Modric, Hazard, Silva, Vidal, Sanchez, Fabregas, Thiago, Eriksen, Strootman, Coentrao, Lewandowski, you name it) doesn't matter, I trust in SAF, he knows best, we are still winning, all is good as long as SAF is here. Now that SAF is gone, look in what kind of an absolute mess we are in, there is only 1 topclub in the world that is doing worse than us and that is Milan and in fact they can call in their financial problems as a legitimate reason, what is our reason for being so absolute crap on sportive decision making ? Now again, so many fools at the club calling out for Giggs over LVG (after the downfall under Moyes), really this is the stuff that makes my skin crawl and makes me think that the sportive side of this club is ran by absolute morrons.

We are supposed to be on the same level in terms of finances and being an attractive club as Bayern, Real and Barcelona, why do I always have a feeling any player that is linked with them 'll chose them over us ? Why are they on top of their league and we 7th ? Why are they considered favorites if we play versus them in a CL tie, why do people awe over their football and not over ours ? Why are they consistently in or around CL finals and we're not ? The last couple of years we have just slid down the sportive ladder, why is that ? Lack of funds, no, lack of history, no, what do we lack I ask you ? Capable people to run a club like this, the way it is supposed to be ran, that is what we lack. (again sportive side, commercially we are brilliant)
 
hate all this waiting around.

Hopefully whoever gets the job is well prepared for the transfer market
 
@Sphaero

When was the last of those players signed? It is probable that you lucked out in the transfer market at that time. I find it unlikely that the Dortmund model will continue to bear fruit ripe enough to keep you at Europe's very top table for a long period of time.

It is all about the money over a period of time, which is why at least two of the players used in your example will not be lining up for Dortmund next season.

I am not sure with Hummel's but with the ongoing speculation surrounding Reus then I would expect that there has been some dialogue and encouragement from his agent. Of course the agent might have a few agendas on the go as reason for that, but I feel that there is some smoke on that front.

Four months ago: Milos Jojic for around 2 Mil. € from Partizan Belgrad. Introduced himself very nicely and also faster than others to Klopp´s system and added some much dynamic to our midfield which we lacked since Gündogan´s injury.

The one before him would be Erik Durm, a former striker who joined us last Summer from the reserve team of Mainz for 200k €, who was transformed by Klopp into a FB. He is now a U21 German International and some experts already recommended him for the German squad for Brazil.

We are doing what we are doing for too long to simply call it just luck. I´m not saying that it is not involved, but the main reasons for our success are simply excellent scouting (identifying suited talents before they receive hype) and Klopp´s ability to see strengths in players and use them in his system.

Dortmund´s model is not the most ideal one, but if it continues to work, it is the most cost efficient one. It is also the only one, which could help getting Dortmund into the elite without massive financial help from the outside. It will take a long time to accomplish that, but we are on a good way. We are expected to come near or even breach the 300 Mil. € line in terms of annual revenue (without transfer income) this season, which puts us in the region of Juventus Turin and Liverpool. The overall squad strength has also increased every year up until now.
 
@sphearo

I was talking about the players that you mentioned that have established themselves as top players: Lewi, Gundogen et al, not the prospects that you are hoping will do the same.
 
Can we scrap this how good Dortmund are at improving average players to another thread? Probably an interesting discussion as no one has yet to name me a player that has left Klopp and gone on to perform better.
 
Liam's thoughts on Van Gaal, Klopp and Simeone.
FWIW my thought's on LVG have changed. I've mellowed on him the more I've read about him. He commands respect and gets his stuff going immediately, anyone not pulling in the right direction is out. I still hate his face.

My views on Klopp haven't changed. Clearly a talented manager, doesn't want to leave Dortmund for the foreseeable future, has never managed a properly big club. Still hate his face, mind.

Simeone hasn't changed either. He looks closer to winning big things with them, which is an incredible achievement, but he's done it with a totally different group of players. He's never managed a massive club and he's never really had to handle big players. I've also read that his management style would be very abrasive at a top club. I don't know why but the Spanish journo didn't think he'd be cut out for United.

Happy with that, pal?
 
yeah, like they're going to listen to you, Rooney.

he's probably just crapping himself because he won't get his own way with Van Gaal.
 
Don't believe that. If it were true however, I'd hope LVG fecks him off to PSG.
 
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