Clubs don't control fans. Fining them for things their fans do is a bit stupid IMO, as they really can't do anything about idiot fans going into the stadium and doing these gestures unless they get their season tickets taken away and banned and stuff. Fines won't change anything, regardless of how much.
Manchester City facing Financial Fair Play sanctions
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It seems like the minimum sanction Manchester City could have expected. €45m of losses allowable during the first monitoring period - City lost €181m.
A quick check of the FFP regs later, its hard to see that fines would count as exempted expenditure. The following are exempt
The bluemoon thread is hilarious. Someone actually suggested they should quit the CL themselves and go play friendlies outside of Europe instead.
It's a tough punishment and will force them to fall in line with the rest, 60M isn't not nothing to billionaires by the way, it's a lot of money, also players missing out on the CL squad will be pissed, it'll change any transfer strategy they had planned for the summer to make it work.
They have no choice but to comply here or even face a much worse punishment next time.
They have no choice but to comply here or even face a much worse punishment next time.
Dortmund are actually a perfect example of why FFP is so important. Dortmund almost went bust in the 2000s after chronic financial mismanagement and several years of losses. They sold their stadium and then blew all the money on players while chasing a Champions League dream, much like Leeds, and in the end faced insolvency in 2005, needing several bailouts.
They survived and this time they've incrementally improved their finances by buying well and selling players at high prices to clubs like ours. Now they're Champions League regulars and their finances are excellent, finally shaking off the debts and, they believe, entering a new period of financial strength.
Plus, don't forget one crucial thing. If there were three clubs owned by oil barons in the Bundesliga, Dortmund would have no hope of ever reaching the Champions League and never have been able to grow the club to where it is now. Its only the absence of clubs owned by billionaires that has allowed a club like Dortmund back in the Champions League.
50 million quid isnt easily dismissed even for someone like City. BTW what is the normal squad size for the CL?
25 I think.
What happens to this £50 million?
Think UEFA said it was undecided.
To be fair, there are some sensible points in one of those posts, specifically how this effects clubs compliance in the future. Could this just snowball, eventually forcing those runing the clubs to chuck in the towell and walk away? It presuposes that clubs can radically reduce their wage bill, or increase their turnover at will to put things right but I'm not sure its as simple as that. What if they can't sell these players?
In all fairness the clubs knew it was coming and they should have cut their cloth to suit so I have no sympathy, but its interesting to see what will happen going forward.
It should be used on some kind of grass roots project.
25 + under 21 players who are 'home-grown'
Hmmm ok thanks!
Tbh I would like to see a ban on clubs using a transfer window or setting a wage cap on the Champions league
'It is believed a Champions League squad reduction could see the clubs restricted to using anywhere between 18 and 21 players in Uefa's premier competition. A normal squad size is 25'.
Swingeing stuff.
Swingeing stuff.
That would be good although I believe City have ploughed a lot of money into this kind of thing anyway. I just hope it doesn't get wasted.
Can they appeal the punishment à la Barcelona?
Clubs are fine as long as they show that they are making clear progress towards compliance. Even if they fell short, if they made the effort they would probably get nothing more than a stern talking to.
In the end though a club like City has vast assets in terms of the playing staff. If they chose they could sell Toure, Aguero or whoever in a second for a few bob & save on the wage bill too. The only players they'll find hard to shift are players like Milner who will probably be of interest only to clubs like Everton, who aren't paying £25M and £100Kpw for any player.
Clubs shouldn't be fined for the racist behaviour of theirs fan full stop, it's unfair.
They have a kind of psudo-appeal stage in the next few weeks where the punishment can change either way, then if they still can't agree they can go to CAS. CAS have agreed to fast track any cases of this kind.
Cool, cheers.
I want to know this as well. They appeal and get another year to sort out their shit? At least that would give them a bit more time. If it happens right now, they're in trouble.
Oh please let them do that !
The punishment has been issued and is subject to appeal of which other clubs can counter appeal thus increasing the punishment values, similarly if the appeal is rejected or fails, the punishment is also increased.
Lose, lose situation for clubs like City and PSG who have been borking their finances with "false sponsorship".
Good god, and who do they suppose would clammer to play their relatively small and unknown club?
Hey Real, Barca fancy quitting playing the CL to play some friendlies with Manchester City " yeah sure....wait the ones that play in blue and get knocked out despite spending 2bn on players? nah well stick to something with some weight behind it"
My point is that Hannover couldn't do that. Or Mainz. Or Manchester City. You underestimate how big Dortmund are.
I also don't get why their screw-up prove we need FFP. Do we need regulation that kills competition because clubs might feck up their own finances? Let them.
But one billionaire owner can have a direct effect on a few clubs, maybe even more, as my point earlier mentioned.
These owners are quite new to the game of football, and football ran quite well without it.
What if the Sheiks decided in a few years to pull the plug. It could potentially ruin the club beyond repair.
These owners are not going to stick around forever. It's a toy to them.
What if the club went into financial ruin. Would a small window of 3-5 years of success be worth watching their club go bang
I had heard the same.
At the end of the day, FFP has been in play for 3 years, so they all know the rules. They are working against 3 years worth of audited accounts. The clubs have also been aware of the breaches of FFP for a fews months now. No reason why this could not go straight to appeal and then CAS if needed.
I also don't see how City or PSG could win. UEFA run the CL and therefore set the rules. It is not City's right to be in the competition. I understand competing in the competition is by invite only, so City don't have much of a leg to stand on. I wonder if UEFA are threatening a full explusion from European competition if they don't just agree to the penalties.
Why couldn't Man City do it in the same way Spurs have? They already had an advantage in being handed a purpose built stadium.
Hannover could on the long run. Mainz maybe not, but they are in the Rhein-Main-Area. Hoffenheim could not. You have to see a development that could be made in longer time periods - not in short. Sports and financial abilities have to run hand in hand - not rushed. The problem is that a lot want to invest - and then the sport success follows. But it should be different - first success, earning money through that, further investments, more success...
What an odd example. Those clubs have two titles in their combined 200-odd years existence, they had no more success before the modern money than during it.
Some clubs have always had an advantage in football, due to more income from larger gate receipts. FFP is not there to allow clubs like Flixton FC compete equally with Real Madrid, that would be daft. Its a question of proportionality.
Thank god your not in charge then. When football clubs go bust its the fans that lose, not the people running them. If you care so little for football clubs, fine. but don't expect everyone to feel that way.
That is actually a very good point. Its a UEFA owned competition, and they can decide who and who does not compete.
I don't know exactly what teams agree to when they accept stuff that UEFA put out there. I guess they could appeal the 50m and say FU UEFA and not play in their competitions....Obviously they don't want to do that, but its possible.
I suppose it is my mistake for not having made things clearer in the previous post with the quote.
How much to buy UEFA and just change the rules?
A victory for the football cabal small clubs everywhere!
Not both necessarily but naming 8 out of 21 squad players as homegrown will be a challenge and looking at the current group I'd say it could mean they refuse to sell Richards and keep Rodwell.
It's not really about the health of football. It's just making sure the big boys continue to get the profits. Skim talent off smaller clubs trying to get in the right way, but hey, at least they earned it.
They should split all the money from fines and award it to the teams who comply with the regulations. Us getting 10m from City would be hilarious.
Making us more richer in the eyes of FFP, a rich get richer scenario. I like it!