Manchester City facing Financial Fair Play sanctions

sullydnl said:
You guys sure that the owners can't just pay the fine? That's what I've seen suggested on twitter...

I see some city fans complaining that UEFA are corrupt too. I really hope this hits them hard in the same summer we throw around 150m... :lol:
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Run by United and chaired by SAF?

Are you going all Loonypool on us?
 
sullydnl said:
You guys sure that the owners can't just pay the fine? That's what I've seen suggested on twitter...

I see some city fans complaining that UEFA are corrupt too. I really hope this hits them hard in the same summer we throw around 150m... :lol:
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The fine would have to presumably come from the club rather than the owners private chequebook, given that it's a fine levied on the club.
 
SolidState said:
Yeah. I mentioned that? 20m a year on 100m revenue makes revenue 80m (all rough figures) good luck getting Mangala for 40m then a few brits to meet your sanction. This sanction is designed to make City suffer pretty hard in Europe and for it to be nigh on impossible to get around based on their current model.

It forces their hand to be self sustainable without the sugar daddy.

Tell ya what, well take Aguero for 20m
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Aguero - he's a crock;)
 
Selling one or two of their big players is definitely more likely than it was before.

Won't matter in the long run really but short-term it could be a funny/odd summer for them.
 
MPTutd said:
Can you post a link. Google searching it would make me feel too dirty.
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If you sift through all of the conspiracy theories about this timing coming just as the title race is coming to a close and the fact that Gill was recently appointed, you get this:

At the moment we are very much in the dark and will remain so until we hear something definite from City and UEFA. Our only source is the press, and there we have the usual problems of the common origin of all articles and the fact that they're often speculation anyway. If there is any truth in them, however, there are 3 aspects of the reports which alarm me greatly.

I do not understand the grounds on which we have failed. The club was said to be "relaxed" about FFP, had been in regular contact with UEFA and expected to comply with the regulations. It suggests that UEFA had done nothing to dispel this belief, but now it would appear that they have objected to the Etihad deal or the sale of IP rights or both. The question of "fair" value is a mythical one since all that is real is the "market value" - what benefits Etihad expect to derive, what they are prepared to pay and what City will accept. Interference from UEFA is trying to interfere with Etihad's right to invest it's own money since these monies were to invest in the training complex. The deal clearly was not flagged up as "related" and my guess is that UEFA are taking the unbelievable step of dismissing it as "illegal state aid". Clearly such a decision would only be entertained in UEFA's own kangaroo court, but it would not surprise me. This would appear the only way they could get the deal ruled out permanently. This may give us no choice but to seek legal redress. The ramifications of such steps would be far too wide for this to be accepted by the European courts.

The second concern is that City have clearly been surprised by UEFA's reactions. City thought they had conformed and are obviously shocked, despite their frequent consultations with the authorities. City are playing on a field where the goalposts are never in the same place and on which the referee can change the rules when he likes. In effect we have made decisions on the basis of regulations made public over 4 years ago and these decisions are held to have fallen foul of rules brought in since. It is a principle of law that you cannot be convicted and punished for something which was not an offence when you did it - not unless you lived in the USSR or the third reich and one or two other delightful places.

The third concern is the severity of the sanctions. A heavy fine, a salary cap on the CL squad and restrictions on the size of the squad all seem aimed at reducing the ability of the club to compete, to attract players and to retain those we already have, as well as suggesting to potential sponsors that sponsoring City is not advisable. These are a long way from UEFA's avowed aims and must be defeated absolutely. The courts appear the only avenue of redress.
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Can I just ask how the hell fining us millions of pounds will help us balance our books ? I thought the point was to stop clubs from slipping into financial turmoil but fining massive amounts will surely ruin clubs and put them in debt ?
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If those are the sanctions then I am astounded.

€60m fine - how do UEFA come at this figure? Would this be the same if we had 'done a Portsmouth' and had still overspent but had lost the gamble? Is the money going to help clubs like Portsmouth and lower league clubs? Does it count against us for future FFP calculations?

Squad reduction - As I mentioned before, why not say those 4 places have to be home grown kids then? A reduction in squad size stops players form having a chance to fulfill their dreams, to compete, to do their jobs, and for youngsters to play in the biggest club competition.

Wage reduction - If we accept the above then probably not an issue, but if we have a bigger project in place, like we do, to increase turnover and profitability, then an increase in wage affordability is perfectly legal, logical and just reward.

The last two I can live with, we can get around that easy. The Fine is immoral and unjustified, I would fight to the death over that.

I can't see us agreeing to any of it, especially while Dupont's case is gathering pace and heading for the courts soon.
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They are furious over there, not because they have done wrong, but they all believe that City are 100% not in the wrong, and they will take them to court and they are convinced they will win their appeal. But they feel the fines will make it financially unstable is the general consensus
 
Bader said:
Can't they overspend next season but spend less than they wanted the season after to balance it out?
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There are three areas they need to consider

a) they need to get close to break even on their annual accounts - last season they made a £50M loss. £37M over 3 years is accepted, but they're already well over that, so they need to be heading in the right direction in a big way.
b) they need to deal with the UEFA fine (£16M)
c) they may have had income ignored for coming from a related party or being over market value. We don't know that figure as it hasn't been disclosed, but it could be up to £20M if speculation is to be believed.

In a worst case scenario the savings they need to make is £50M+£16M+£20M over the next season. Best case is no income ignored, and UEFA accepting a c.£20M loss as showing the club moving in the right direction, in which case £30M+£16M to save this summer.

However you square it, that's a major reduction in overall expenditure.
 
Minimalist said:
Selling one or two of their big players is definitely more likely than it was before.

Won't matter in the long run really but short-term it could be a funny/odd summer for them.
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To whom to sell them to though?

PSG are out of the question. Chelsea and any other club who perhaps has an eye on FFP will have to think twice before buying at that price unless it's a well-thought out, calculated purchase. The market simply won't be there for someone to pay £35m and £190,000 a week wages on a player just because they happened to have come onto the market.

I think City may well find it very difficult too sell players unless they go down the road of agreeing to pay part of the players wages for the duration of his contract at his new club which would ease but not completely solve the problem and perhaps raise some more questions.
 
bishblaize said:
Players that went to City before they were in the CL did so because they were part of a club that was obviously going places and wanted to be part of that journey. It'd be very different if there was no prospect of the CL at any point.

I also think its fair to say that players like Ibrahimovic are driven by being the best around, not by being the best paid. There are some players who would stick around, but they're not the ones you want to build your club on.

Besides, Sheikh Mansour and the QTA are in this for the profile a football club brings them & their countries. PSG in particular are only interesting for them as long as they are in Europe. Being the big fish in the French league is not what they paid all that money for. They need to be in the Champions League at least as much as UEFA needs them in it.
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i personly think Ibrahimovic would stay, it unlikly e will get 15mil euros where ever he went next, on top of PSG probably wanting a healthy transfer fee too. So of course they want to be the best, but the also want to earn the most, thats why so many top players went to City and PSG.
it isnt as straight forward as ow where out of europe now, lets flog all these players, because lots of them are on wages above market value, which means they will be very hard to sell on.
Look at the amount of players city have had to subsidence thier wgaes when they have left the club becuase they can't sell them out right becuase they over paid.

so i agree with your last statement, the two sides need each other and will probably come to some amicable agreement, that won't really punish the clubs, but will be enough for uefa to just about save face
 
Plugsy said:
To whom to sell them to though?

PSG are out of the question. Chelsea and any other club who perhaps has an eye on FFP will have to think twice before buying at that price unless it's a well-thought out, calculated purchase. The market simply won't be there for someone to pay £35m and £190,000 a week wages on a player just because they happened to have come onto the market.

I think City may well find it very difficult too sell players unless they go down the road of agreeing to pay part of the players wages for the duration of his contract at his new club which would ease but not completely solve the problem and perhaps raise some more questions.
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Don't really know but Mourinho was on my mind I admit. :lol:

They might not be prepared to sell anyone but I just feel if those sanctions stick, we might see some odd behaviour from City this summer.
 
bishblaize said:
There are three areas they need to consider

a) they need to get close to break even on their annual accounts - last season they made a £50M loss. £37M over 3 years is accepted, but they're already well over that, so they need to be heading in the right direction in a big way.
b) they need to deal with the UEFA fine (£16M)
c) they may have had income ignored for coming from a related party or being over market value. We don't know that figure as it hasn't been disclosed, but it could be up to £20M if speculation is to be believed.

In a worst case scenario the savings they need to make is £50M+£16M+£20M over the next season. Best case is no income ignored, and UEFA accepting a c.£20M loss as showing the club moving in the right direction, in which case £30M+£16M to save this summer.

However you square it, that's a major reduction in overall expenditure.
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What about if they get 4 new sponsers from the middle east?
 
I don't get why Real Madrid and Barca get favourable loans and majority of Tv rights, yet nothing is done.
 
The thing is though, a guy on Sky said over the last 3 years they needed to make a loss of 37.5m....They made a loss of 150m in that 3 years.

Won't they still need to catch up on that still?
 
Bader said:
They are laughing and saying "is that all you can do?"

50m is not a lot in the owner's eyes. Imagine you were billionaires, exactly.

21 man squad in CL is nothing. You do know you field a ln 11 man team each game?!

Wage limit is that you can't field players next that have a higher wage bill in total than this year. Are they stupid?!? Man city have the highest wage bill in the world! If they 2-3 players, there will be more than enough wages to go around.

If any of you is satisfied with this 'fine', you need to get yourself checked out.

People say they didn't thin Uefa will do anything and thus any fine is great. It is your fault that you were ignorant enough to suggest that such an organisation will not stand by its own rules.

There are plenty of english talent out ther to meet the 8 playets required.
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What exactly were you expecting? This is a pretty strong punishment for a first offence, if you actually thought teams would be thrown out and more harsh punishments put on them for their first offence then I'd say you need to get yourself checked out mate.
 
The fact that the fines can be paid by the owners without it affecting next years loss is just stupid.
 
JazzG said:
What exactly were you expecting? This is a pretty strong punishment for a first offence, if you actually thought teams would be thrown out and more harsh punishments put on them for their first offence then I'd say you need to get yourself checked out mate.
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I think some people are so blinded by their hatred for clubs owned by spending billionaires that they're indeed losing some perspective on the reality.
 
JazzG said:
What exactly were you expecting? This is a pretty strong punishment for a first offence, if you actually thought teams would be thrown out and more harsh punishments put on them for their first offence then I'd say you need to get yourself checked out mate.
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I have changed my mind about this 15mins ago.

But this 'first offence' is just made up by cowards.
 
kouroux said:
I think some people are so blinded by their hatred for clubs owned by spending billionaires that they're indeed losing some perspective on the reality.
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I think you were so blinded by my post, you did not notice my posts after that.
 
Igor Drefljak said:
I guess right now that is one guys speculation. Has it been confirmed by a reliable source?
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He's the Chief Sports reporter for the Press Association.
 
These owners are Billionaires ffs. They will give them 50m in the first season (instead of segmented over 3 years) and will give each UEFA member a lambo.
 
kouroux said:
That is if I was talking about you specifically but I wasn't. Otherwise I'd have directly mentioned you but do feel pointed at if you want.
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I would logically assume you was talking about me (in a general group) because you quoted someone who quoted me.
 
Plugsy said:
To whom to sell them to though?

PSG are out of the question. Chelsea and any other club who perhaps has an eye on FFP will have to think twice before buying at that price unless it's a well-thought out, calculated purchase. The market simply won't be there for someone to pay £35m and £190,000 a week wages on a player just because they happened to have come onto the market.

I think City may well find it very difficult too sell players unless they go down the road of agreeing to pay part of the players wages for the duration of his contract at his new club which would ease but not completely solve the problem and perhaps raise some more questions.
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Ed Woodwards office, Tuesday 6th May, 11am. He zips up and dials the CEO at The Etihad.

"Good morning, this is Ed Woodward. Could you fetch Mr Ferran Soriano, run along.......... Mr Soriano, EWW here, I've drawn up the contracts for your players Kompany, Toure, Clichy, Silva, Milner & Dzeko the £20 million bank transfer has already been made, "
 
Can we have some link backs to everyone who posted shite along the lines of "Uefa cant do anything" "wont do anything" etc.

:lol:
 
I like the squad reduction punishment, you look at who makes up their 8 homegrown and there's little talent there.
Wonder if they'll now keep Barry
 
tippex said:
and now this nasty twist....
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Yeah, this is the stuff I was seeing on twitter. Makes the fine relatively useless, doesn't it? The CL restriction seems like a more effective punishment.
 
Bader said:
These owners are Billionaires ffs. They will give them 50m in the first season (instead of segmented over 3 years) and will give each UEFA member a lambo.
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but once the UEFA establish this punishment every consecutive punishment has to be harsher. Thats a massive punishment for the beginning. I still dont really trust them, but if they really go through with this, they show that they mean business. There is no way that City just pays them off every year and doesnt change anything.
 
PedroMendez said:
but once the UEFA establish this punishment every consecutive punishment has to be harsher. Thats a massive punishment for the beginning. I still dont really trust them, but if they really go through with this, they show that they mean business. There is no way that City just pays them off every year and doesnt change anything.
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City won't be punished again until after next 3 years. By that time they would of developed a sucessful academy, had a stadium seat upgrade(or under construction), they would of got new sponsers etc.

That all stemed from violating the FPP rules.
 
That reprieve doesn't make the fine useless. City aren't going to keep breaking the rules each year and paying the fine. Not to mention that if they do, then next time around, it will be a harsher punishment.
 
Bader said:
City won't be punished again until after next 3 years. By that time they would of developed a sucessful academy, had a stadium seat upgrade(or under construction), they would of got new sponsers etc.

That all stemed from violating the FPP rules.
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Surely FFP will be reviewed every year.
I think the fine is over 3 years just so it doesn't have to be paid all at once
 
And you have to say: huge respect for UEFA. That takes balls.
When you heard english media, Sunday Supplement etc, talking it was always: our clubs have the better lawers we are the BEST league you dont want to ban the superstars.
Oh man. UEFA holds the cups, they make the rules.
There are enough big clubs out there. The PL is not the best league anymore and the money pushing gets controlled now. A great day for football. Hard working clubs like Bayern, Dortmund, United and so on deserve this.
All these old British men talking "no one can stop our money league with the big owners". Love it. :lol:

P.S. And even if the owners pay the fine directly its a huge portion of money and a clear signal "we can get you".
 
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