Shinji Kagawa

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I do, Giggs made more penetrative passes than Shinji today from midfield, I love him but that was his worst game in a united shirt.

But how can one take todays game and compare it to competitive games when it was about entertainment and making our youngsters dreams come true and our honour our long servants.

Lacking intensity was his negative today, of course nearly everybody lacks intensity in completely meaningless games. It was a long time since we last penetrated the central areas as consistently as today - of course Hull had nothing to play for either.
 
And here we go again!

Call Kagawa average and you get bombarded by his over zealous fanbois who then proceed to hype up every little thing he does. He was fecking average. Deal with it.

Rooney's a better player in pretty much any position.
Ha! Great response, its evident anyone who disagrees with you MUST be a fan boy, you didnt even seem to read what I wrote! I said he was worse than average, he was shite - but you need to go overboard yet again.
 
One of my favourite players but this performance was no different to any that Cleverley has put in and he is slaughtered for it. People don't realise that our main playmaker is Carirck. Many a time Kagawa would lay the ball off for Carrick and then run forward, exactly the same as what Cleverley does and its to create space, nothing more, nothing less. Controlled the tempo very well, but if you're expecting him to make 50 yard runs playing 1-2s with the keeper, sadly you don't understand the balance a player like him can bring to the middle.
 
Played out of position and played for most of the game with a chunk of nothing and 3 teens infront of him. Bad game, great player.
 
Ha! Great response, its evident anyone who disagrees with you MUST be a fan boy, you didnt even seem to read what I wrote! I said he was worse than average, he was shite - but you need to go overboard yet again.

Heh, great response from you as well. Point out the bloody obvious and get called a Kagawa hater. Then again, that's normal for this thread I suppose.
 
But how can one take todays game and compare it to competitive games when it was about entertainment and making our youngsters dreams come true and our honour our long servants.

Lacking intensity was his negative today, of course nearly everybody lacks intensity in completely meaningless games. It was a long time since we last penetrated the central areas as consistently as today - of course Hull had nothing to play for either.
Exactly. He didn't have any intensity and performed poorly, irregardless of circumstances, I'm not particularly bothered though as the game was more about Vidic and Giggs, dead rubber. Hes a superb player.
 
Heh, great response from you as well. Point out the bloody obvious and get called a Kagawa hater. Then again, that's normal for this thread I suppose.
Well done you still seem oblivious that I AGREE he was shit tonight. Its the fact you've tried to use tonights performance as an example of the way hes played these last few months.
 
What system is this that we can afford to play Rooney, Mata and Kagawa: unless you are suggesting we bench someone
Well when I use the word system Im talking about the style of play and all 3 could happily play together with a short passing game. Also why do they all have to play all the time?. We need a big squad, we need 2 quality players for every position. The days of the same 11 players playing every game unless injured went away 20 years ago.
 
Well done you still seem oblivious that I AGREE he was shit tonight. Its the fact you've tried to use tonights performance as an example of the way hes played these last few months.

No, I didn't. Stop talking shite.

What I did say is that lack of urgency on the pitch has been one of the most annoying aspects of his United career.
 
Dreadful tonight. Never have I seen a player still be so ridiculously hyped after two seasons of average returns. Starting to think it's a distinctively loud minority though.


Sorry but this post is as ridiculous as those "hyping" him up. He played as a central midfielder today. Do you really think he was going to dictate the game? Mata is more suited to central midfield than Kagawa is, and it's clear what kind of style both prefer. Today's performance can be used to confirm what some have said about Kagawa in central midfield: he's too passive, it's as simple as that IMO. Also, Kagawa has had a good end to the season...
 
He'd fit in at pretty much any top team except for us and Chelsea.

We already know that he was brilliant/world class for Dortmund. We already know that he's brilliant for Japan. We already know that he was good under Fergie, despite struggling with injuries and adjusting himself to a new role. And according to Kagawa's former coach in Japan, Barcelona is the team that would fit him the best.

The crappy football we're currently playing does him no favors at all. Even Mata, who's been allowed to play in his favored position, is only a shadow of his own top level.

It's not rocket science. Crappy, slow, and static football makes classy players seem mediocre. Especially technical players who thrive under quick movement.

I agree with parts of what you say here, however Kagawa is slightly different to some other 'classy' players. I don't think every 'classy' player would look awful here, despite our non-exist system.

Silva, for example, would still do the business here in my opinion: The ball sticks to him more; he's harder to knock off the ball; he's more robust; and is much more comfortable holding the ball for a while with his head up, patiently waiting for the pass - aside from being technically superior.
I could imagine Silva coming here and raising our game, rather than being dragged down by it. He'd still be okay in a slow system.

Whereas Kagawa needs to release the ball very quickly otherwise he's liable to be knocked off it. And here, there's rarely anyone available for a first time pass, like at Dortmund.
I'd say Mata is half way between the two. And he's looked less lost than Kagawa, in my opinion.

I obviously agree that our play needs to be zippier. It comes down to centre midfielders. You can't build a quick, intricate passing game without midfielders who trust themselves and are trusted by others with the ball in tight spaces.
Carrick and the rest just don't trust themselves with anyone near them, so half the time they don't show unless they have space. But obviously you out-pass/unlock teams by going into the tight spaces they don't want you to enter, not the acres of free space they allow you.

A couple of centre midfielders, and though we won't be playing like Dortmund, we'll be zippier and more cohesive.
It's exciting, and I think he'll improve - though he'll never look as good anywhere else as he did at Dortmund, in my opinion.
 
I think he was ok tonight in a deep role. Not good or great and neither shit or dreadful. He did his job well. He retained possession well but did not make longer passes which were good enough. He looked to pass to Carrick more than attempt things himself. I think he is an important player for us.
 
Didn't do too great today. Him playing as a CM and Fellaini as a CAM was bad management tonight.
 
He's not suited to playing that deep. I find his long range passing to be sub-par, though his short and one-touch passing is really good.
 
Sorry but this post is as ridiculous as those "hyping" him up. He played as a central midfielder today. Do you really think he was going to dictate the game? Mata is more suited to central midfield than Kagawa is, and it's clear what kind of style both prefer. Today's performance can be used to confirm what some have said about Kagawa in central midfield: he's too passive, it's as simple as that IMO. Also, Kagawa has had a good end to the season...

I didn't really expect alot from him, but basic passes seemed beyond his capability at times tonight. It was a dreadful performance.

He's had a good end, a fantastic game against Bayern. But honestly, some people harp on like he's irreplaceable and the future of the team. On the back of what evidence? He's done next to nothing all season.
 
Didn't do too great today. Him playing as a CM and Fellaini as a CAM was bad management tonight.

I'm half inclined to agree, but we won and Fellaini got 2 assists, once of which he should have scored, sooo....
 
I thought he did alright honestly. It was nice having someone willing to run around and get open for teammates in center mid. He was out of position so I didn't expect anything great from him, and he didn't deliver anything great, but I still thought it was refreshing to see a player like him used in the center. He played quite a few decent balls and saw quite a few more that didn't quite come off, it was nice to see someone attempting these passes for a change. Again, he wasn't fantastic by any means but I still thought it was a decent performance.
 
No, I didn't. Stop talking shite.

What I did say is that lack of urgency on the pitch has been one of the most annoying aspects of his United career.
What you did was use this game as an example as to why he shouldn't play as an attacking midfielder, please explain the correlation between a poor performance in a dead rubber as a central midfielder to his ability to play as a number 10? I have absolutely no objection with you stating he had a bad game nor do I if you question his ability if he has had a string of bad games, but he was voted player of the month here and any chance of a dig you take, get a grip.
 
I think with Kagawa it's a case of it being like when you used to play 'doubles' with your best mate, who was completely on the same wave length.
You'd try ridiculous flicks and tricks, because you just knew where each other would be without looking.

Your passes didn't even need to be 100% accurate because your mate would always be a step ahead of your opponent anyway, so he'd reach it enough to flick it back. And you'd play like world beaters.

Then on Sunday you'd go and play with your proper team without your mate, and you'd suddenly have to think about everything a a lot more.
The flicks aren't being anticipated, and because your team mates aren't on your wave length, you feel as though you have to make you passing more crisp and accurate, which takes away from your innovation.

Watching Kagawa at Dortmund, he actually gave the ball away more than he usually does here, but the passes he was trying were so much riskier.

Obviously this happens to all players when moving teams to some extent, but Dortmund's system is so far removed from what 99% of teams play and Kagawa is so suited to that particular style that it's hard to see him ever being as good unless he plays in the same system again.
He's really not a player who can use strength to hold the ball for five seconds and then wait for the pass, like Silva. Things need to be zippy with him.
 
he was alright(not great) tonight playing out of postion, would have been interesting to see mata ahead of him instead of fellaini
 
I'm half inclined to agree, but we won and Fellaini got 2 assists, once of which he should have scored, sooo....
But his overall play was so bloody poor. He can't keep the ball at his feet for more than a couple of seconds..
 
But his overall play was so bloody poor. He can't keep the ball at his feet for more than a couple of seconds..
True, can't argue with that. There were a few times towards the end of the game where he seemed to lose the ball and have no interest in trying to win it back, or went into 50/50s completely half hearted. That's the most disappointing thing to see for me. When the effort isn't even there to see.
That said, I still thought he offered more in today's more attacking role, than he has done in the holding role all season.
 
A deep lying CM just isn't his role. In fact his long range passing is fairly average, its the short interchanges and weight that he's so good at. Needs to be closer to the net and linking the attack, not trying to pull the strings from deep.
 
But his overall play was so bloody poor. He can't keep the ball at his feet for more than a couple of seconds..

I just don't get the Kagawa hype to be honest.

He clearly isn't a wide player. Not quick enough or good enough moving with the ball at feet. You only have to look at Januzaj to see the difference.

He's had some great performances but just doesn't perform well enough often enough.

Can't see him getting a run in the number 10 role and I'm not sure you can say he deserves to either. He's one I'd move on if we could get decent money.
 
I just don't get the Kagawa hype to be honest.

He clearly isn't a wide player. Not quick enough or good enough moving with the ball at feet. You only have to look at Januzaj to see the difference.

He's had some great performances but just doesn't perform well enough often enough.

Can't see him getting a run in the number 10 role and I'm not sure you can say he deserves to either. He's one I'd move on if we could get decent money.
I think when he has been a no 10 this season, he has definitely proved he can be a great player for us. I think the reason so many people are unsure is because of how inconsistent/poor he can be when he is played on the wing. I think Mata is better but as a no 10 certainly.
 
He's one I'd move on if we could get decent money.

We have very few players in the 24-28 age range bracket as it is. You don't go selling talented players that are a step in the right direction in a stylistic sense. You build around these players, create a style of football that accommodates them, and then let them fight it out for the right to start games. I'm hoping that Van Gaal does this.

There's more than a few older, attacking players that need offloading before we get to a 25 year old full international like Kagawa. At worst, he's a squad option, or it doesn't work out under the new man and a decision is taken then. But there's more than enough games to play and the actual position on the field has never been the issue, more so the kind of player alongside him. More Mata and Januzaj, less Valencia and Young. I think our next guy will get that message.
 
We have very few players in the 24-28 age range bracket as it is. You don't go selling talented players that are a step in the right direction in a stylistic sense. You build around these players, create a style of football that accommodates them, and then let them fight it out for the right to start games. I'm hoping that Van Gaal does this.

There's more than a few older, attacking players that need offloading before we get to a 25 year old full international like Kagawa. At worst, he's a squad option, or it doesn't work out under the new man and a decision is taken then. But there's more than enough games to play and the actual position on the field has never been the issue, more so the kind of player alongside him. More Mata and Januzaj, less Valencia and Young. I think our next guy will get that message.

There are players I would sell before him, but I think he's one that could raise decent money.

His best position is as a number 10 but I'd put Mata, Rooney and perhaps e en Januzaj in there before him and I consider them to be better players based on what I've seen.

I'm not sure he's be keen to stay to warm the bench anyway.
 
He wasn't very good as a midfielder. And I prefer Januzaj and Mata over him in the forward positions. Not sure what happens to him from here. New position? New club?
 
He wasn't very good as a midfielder. And I prefer Januzaj and Mata over him in the forward positions. Not sure what happens to him from here. New position? New club?

I think he should move one. He's a good player but he just doesn't seem to fit here. Probably best for all parties if he went back to Dortmund, maybe as part of a deal for Reus.
 
Maybe next time we could play him in defence and if he doesn't perform then it might confirm that he really is not good enough ...

It's like playing Silva or Nasri alongside Javi Garcia in midfield!
 
He was average, but that is no surprise when he was playing deeper than Carrick in CM. Poor management.
 
The interesting bit is that not once did Moyes play Fellaini is a number ten; then Giggs comes in and plays Fellaini there and Kagawa as the central midfielder. Are fans that stupid or what? Young is played time and time again even though he is quite rubbish, and Kagawa who has shown himself very capable in that ten position cannot get game time even when Mata and Rooney aren't playing. Baffling that is.
 
Thought he was alright personally. It was nice to see a midfielder pick the ball up in midfield and actually move forward with it for a change. Radar was well off with a lot of his passing though.
 
He's a no 10 and we have 2 players who are better then him in that role (Rooney and Mata). We should sell him and bring someone whom we need.
 
He was average, but that is no surprise when he was playing deeper than Carrick in CM. Poor management.

Quite the opposite. Giggs wanted to give debuts to Wilson and Lawrence so there's 2 of the 4 spaces taken. Adnan was due a start so there's 3. Seems to me Giggs played Fellaini up top to try and get him a goal to boost his confidence and end a shit debut season on a high.

Obviously Kagawa was due a game as he was left out completely against Sunderland so he's give him a run out in CM (a position many have said he should be tried in).
 
What you did was use this game as an example as to why he shouldn't play as an attacking midfielder, please explain the correlation between a poor performance in a dead rubber as a central midfielder to his ability to play as a number 10? I have absolutely no objection with you stating he had a bad game nor do I if you question his ability if he has had a string of bad games, but he was voted player of the month here and any chance of a dig you take, get a grip.

No, I didn't. You need to learn to read posts properly before you get all wound up about someone criticizing Kagawa.

I used his lack of urgency (and directness), something which has been fairly obvious most of time as the reason why I wouldn't play him there. Doesn't matter if he's playing as a CM or AM. Those aspects are still a problem.

And yeah I am taking a dig:wenger: fecking hell. When he plays well, I have praised him on this thread.
 
He didnt have a great game but not many players did last night. Unlike Fellaini or Cleverley, he clearly has the talent and proved in the past that he can be a good player for us
 
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