Shinji Kagawa

[Adebesi]

Rooney doesnt have to be converted into a midfielder if he isnt going to play as a 10, he could play in one of the wide positions too, he has done that quite effectively many times over the years.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

Kagawa's reputation as a brilliant number 10 gets inflated with each passing month that he doesn't play as a number 10.

I'm fecking brilliant at golf using that same logic (I hate golf and haven't played since I was in school)

It's weird. I don't want United to sell Kagawa as I would like to see what LVG does with him but the conviction some posters have on here that he is clearly the best no 10 we have or at the least he is clearly better than Rooney is not borne out his displays for United over the last two seasons and places a huge amount of reliance on his form in the Bundesliga which is two years ago.

He's not even managed to break into the first eleven under two different managers on a consistent basis and does not look completely comfortable in the EPL and does not play that role for his national side. For me, it's a pre-requisite for him to manage the first of those two things before we talk about him being the best in his in that position.

Few years back there was a core of posters on here who thought Nani would develop into a better player than Rooney based on his potential. Not many takers left on that score and he was doing the business for United at the time as well.

 

[Blasphemy]

Kagawa's reputation as a brilliant number 10 gets inflated with each passing month that he doesn't play as a number 10.

I'm fecking brilliant at golf using that same logic (I hate golf and haven't played since I was in school)

Kagawa's such a frustrating player. He's got such good technique and technical ability but he so frequently puts it to little actual productive use on the football field.

 

[Brophs]

It'll be interesting when we see what Van Gaal's plans for him are. If he's a roaring success then all the people who said that his pretty average first season (IMO. Don't bother picking me up on this. I know there are lots of you that think he was good/decent/brilliant/sexy/whatever) was down to it being his first season and his underwhelming second season was down to Moyes will be vindicated. Likewise, if a third manager struggles to nail down a position for him/drops him regularly it'd be hard to argue that maybe he's the issue, not all of the other factors ritually advanced on his behalf.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It'll be interesting when we see what Van Gaal's plans for him are. If he's a roaring success then all the people who said that his pretty average first season (IMO. Don't bother picking me up on this. I know there are lots of you that think he was good/decent/brilliant/sexy/whatever) was down to it being his first season and his underwhelming second season was down to Moyes will be vindicated. Likewise, if a third manager struggles to nail down a position for him/drops him regularly it'd be hard to argue that maybe he's the issue, not all of the other factors ritually advanced on his behalf.

Indeed. Although no doubt the Kagawa hardcore will find yet more excuses. Perhaps Van Gaal is just too Dutch to get the best out of him?

 

[ManUArfa]

Players like Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj have an almost telepathic connection. They expect disguised passes and flicks from each other. An example from last night was Adnan's back heel to Kagawa. These players trust that the ball will arrive and so continue the run or maintain the good position in space because they're on the same wavelength.

I still don't think Kagawa looks out of place playing wide left. He plays there for Japan, because Honda plays the 10 position.

He's combined well with Mata regardless of what starting positions the two of them are in, so it's really just a case of getting players of similar intelligence and style of play.

Watching Kagawa play first time little touches to Fellaini and showing himself for the return pass only to see the Belgian lose the ball through bad anticipation or first touch was annoying last night.

 

[bosnian_red]

Indeed. Although no doubt the Kagawa hardcore will find yet more excuses. Perhaps Van Gaal is just too Dutch to get the best out of him?

I think it depends a lot on the signings we make. Van gaal could maybe use him on the wing but as a 10 everyone would admit mata is better. I'm obviously a huge fan of Kagawa, and while I think he's an excellent player and so pleasing I watch, I'm not sure if he can become a key player because we brought in mata along with having Rvp and Rooney. Those are just 3 players you can't drop but it also makes an unbalanced team. Then again, I feel like Kagawa would fit in perfectly with van gaals usual style so we'll see. I had my doubts he'd ever play a huge part under moyes because of what moyes is like but under van gaal I genuinely don't know because of the players we have.

 

[mazhar13]

Kagawa's game relies quite a lot on his understanding with his teammates. With Dortmund, he understood other players' movements, what sort of passes they will play, where they'll play the passes at certain situations...everything, really. The same goes for his teammates understanding everything about him. For this reason, his movement looks really good, and his link-ups with teammates were deadly. This is what got him so many goals for Dortmund as well as a number of assists.

For Japan, it's something similar. With us, however, since we've played so rigidly for the past couple of years, our game has relied more on individual risk-taking rather than team play, hence why Kagawa, Nani, and Cleverley haven't looked so good in the past couple of years.

Kagawa does well with Mata, Januzaj, Welbeck, Nani, Rooney, etc., in the team because they all work together as a team. There's fluidity in the side, and everyone understands each other. Now, compare this to players who play rigidly i.e. Valencia, Young, Fellaini, Carrick, etc., and you see Kagawa not be as good as he could be because he now has to take the risk and do something individually (beat a man, play a diagonal long pass, etc.) in order to be effective. This is something Mata can do because he's more of a risk-taker than Kagawa is, whilst Kagawa is more of an effective user of the ball rather than a risk taker.

Louis van Gaal will make us play as more of a unit, a team, rather than 11 individuals playing their specific roles. Kagawa will be more of a key and effective player in such a team rather than a rigid team made up of 11 individual players. If we're going to continue playing rigidly and rely on individual magic, Kagawa won't do well. If we're going to play more as a team with lots of movement, fluidity, and great understanding between teammates, Kagawa will be a much better player.

 

[Mad Winger]

How many opportunities has Kagawa had to disprove it this season?

He doesn't have to, because of the simple fact that Rooney isn't a no.10. "No.10" is more of a role than it is a position. A different name for no.10 is central attacking midfielder. What this role suggests, is that you have an offensive playmaker, who's expected to score and assist more often then the other central midfielders, who in return does more of the defensive work.

Rooney does not fit this description. Rooney is a striker. The only reason he's allowed to drop deeper, is because he's more mobile and versatile than RVP, Welbeck and Hernandez. He's in no shape or form an offensive playmaker, he never has been, and he never will be. His first touch, technique and short-passing is waaaay too bad to occupy such a role. Rooney scores and assists a lot, but that's because he is a striker. His natural instinct will put him at the end of many balls, and many of his saved efforts will be put in the back of the net by someone else.

With Rooney you know that you'll get 30(+/-) goals/assists per season. For some coaches that goal/assist return is valuable enough to completely discard fluidity down the center. Fergie clearly wanted to move away from this model, as he could see how problematic it would become in the future. Rooney was headed for the lone striker position until RVP suddenly became available. In the very same season, Carrick decided to have the best season of his life, temporarily closing down the gaps in central midfield. Rafael and DDG stepped up as well. Top top it off, all our rivals sucked. It therefore made sense to play Kagawa on the wing, and Rooney behind RVP. We were winning regardless. It would be up to the next manager to figure out how to solve the Rooney/RVP/Kagawa situation.

Then came Moyes, and he handled it the worst way possible.

He's not even managed to break into the first eleven under two different managers on a consistent basis and does not look completely comfortable in the EPL and does not play that role for his national side. .

Moyes is retarded.

Fergie let Kagawa start 72% of the time in the PL, when he wasn't injured. That's definitely enough to be considered a regular, especially when you consider that he was rested for a lot of games after returning from national games for Japan.

He plays on the left for Japan because they have no wingers who hold top level. Besides Kagawa, the only players who can play on the wing are Okazaki(central striker), Kiyotake(slow attacking midfielder), and Inui(winger who spends most of his time on the bench in Germany). Honda doesn't occupy the position because he's a better AM. He occupies it because he's a significantly worse winger than Kagawa, and playing him in central midfield is a terrible waste.

 

[kouroux]

It might be better for him to move on with his career and maybe go back in Germany.

 

[iBoss]

He doesn't have to, because of the simple fact that Rooney isn't a no.10. "No.10" is more of a role than it is a position. A different name for no.10 is central attacking midfielder. What this role suggests, is that you have an offensive playmaker, who's expected to score and assist more often then the other central midfielders, who in return does more of the defensive work.

Rooney does not fit this description. Rooney is a striker. The only reason he's allowed to drop deeper, is because he's more mobile and versatile than RVP, Welbeck and Hernandez. He's in no shape or form an offensive playmaker, he never has been, and he never will be. His first touch, technique and short-passing is waaaay too bad to occupy such a role. Rooney scores and assists a lot, but that's because he is a striker. His natural instinct will put him at the end of many balls, and many of his saved efforts will be put in the back of the net by someone else.

With Rooney you know that you'll get 30(+/-) goals/assists per season. For some coaches that goal/assist return is valuable enough to completely discard fluidity down the center. Fergie clearly wanted to move away from this model, as he could see how problematic it would become in the future. Rooney was headed for the lone striker position until RVP suddenly became available. In the very same season, Carrick decided to have the best season of his life, temporarily closing down the gaps in central midfield. Rafael and DDG stepped up as well. Top top it off, all our rivals sucked. It therefore made sense to play Kagawa on the wing, and Rooney behind RVP. We were winning regardless. It would be up to the next manager to figure out how to solve the Rooney/RVP/Kagawa situation.

This does make a lot of sense tbf.

 

[Ash_G]

I still don't see any reason why mata kagawa and januzaj/a winger of the main striker can't be great. I think Kagawa is increasingly showing he can influence from wide. He and also Mata have shown though that unless you have multiple runners of the ball then you won't get the most out of them. And that for me is not something we've seen. We've rarely seen them play with a three with Januzaj and Nani has been too injured/out of form to play with them either and neither valencia/young will really make many runs from wide to inside of meaning and it's something pretty much absent from midifeld.

The times we do have players come in of the flank they end up around the edge of the area, they're rarely actually making a diagonal run in to the box and without doing that then space isn't created for someone like kagawa to move in to or find a pass. In that situation he can excel and I think for me that's an area as a team we need to address as we're clearly too one dimensional in attack and that is something we really lack. So I wouldn't see any reason to move Kagawa on when he could be a big part of taking the team forward.

His weakness to a greater extent to Mata is that he can't or rather doesn't seem comfortable running at people. That makes him more dependent on the team working to suit him and is something he needs to address imo. You can see immediately with Januzaj how much it adds to his game. And if he's not going to run at people then I think he can work on being a runner in to the box as at times, as with mata when he's played with rooney they all end up at the edge of the box with no one making the run for the other.

But if we bring in a winger who can and is instructed to make those runs and he is given license to drift from wide then I think he's still got a lot to give and for me is starting to look more and more comfortable.

 

[ivaldo]

Why is it people seem to think he cant play on the left?

 

[mazhar13]

Why is it people seem to think he cant play on the left?

They see him more as a winger than as a wide attacking midfielder. He can't play as a winger as he doesn't have the set of skills for that role. He's more suited to playing as an attacking midfielder, which he can certainly do from the left side.

 

[RDCR07]

Well his agent is saying he aint leaving United this summer which is very very good news.

 

[Annahnomoss]

van Gaal usually has very strict wide roles for his wingers, not wanting them to cut inside or drift around freely as he wants them to stretch the defense constantly. He wants them to be able to receive the ball at their feet out wide before they challenge their full-back and move away from the wide area if they want to.

This is a role Kagawa would be horrible at, so unless van Gaal changes some of his fundamental philosophies there is no chance Kagawa can make it at that role. Unless we make up for it by converting a winger in to a LB so they can provide the dribbling on the left side. van Gaal has a history of converting players in crazy manners so don't be surprised if players changes roles completely the next season.

Personally I think Kagawa's greatest chance is in a 4-1-4-1 role with Mata and him centrally. where they are as free to move forward as Xavi/Iniesta or Bayerns midfielder. van Gaal loves possession football and Mata and Kagawa are among the top players in the world in that regard.

With a DM like Strootman behind we would have solved our midfield problems for 30 millions rather than buying two "complete central midfielders" who can play possession football. They'd cost ridiculous sums, and the chance of us attracting Kroos and Martinez would be near none.

With a two man central midfield we would also need at least another rotational option of great quality as the chance is rather high that one of them is picking up longer injuries over a season.

 

[RDCR07]

I wouldn't mind seeing Kagawa in a central midfield role if LVG changes roles.

 

[mazhar13]

van Gaal usually has very strict wide roles for his wingers, not wanting them to cut inside or drift around freely as he wants them to stretch the defense constantly. He wants them to be able to receive the ball at their feet out wide before they challenge their full-back and move away from the wide area if they want to.

This is a role Kagawa would be horrible at, so unless van Gaal changes some of his fundamental philosophies there is no chance Kagawa can make it at that role. Unless we make up for it by converting a winger in to a LB so they can provide the dribbling on the left side. van Gaal has a history of converting players in crazy manners so don't be surprised if players changes roles completely the next season.

I would doubt van Gaal would look to play Kagawa out wide, anyways. He doesn't suit that role in any way.

It seems more likely that van Gaal would play Kagawa as a more attack-minded central midfielder who moves the ball around well, attacks the spaces, and links up the midfield and attack well.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I would doubt van Gaal would look to play Kagawa out wide, anyways. He doesn't suit that role in any way.

It seems more likely that van Gaal would play Kagawa as a more attack-minded central midfielder who moves the ball around well, attacks the spaces, and links up the midfield and attack well.

Yup, especially so as van Gaal isn't the type of manager who replaces his players with superstars. He moulds them around to fit his visions rather and isn't shy to change positions of players.

The wingers Edgar Davids and Clarence Seedorf became central midfielders under van Gaal for example.

 

[Earthquake]

Yup, especially so as van Gaal isn't the type of manager who replaces his players with superstars. He moulds them around to fit his visions rather and isn't shy to change positions of players.

The wingers Edgar Davids and Clarence Seedorf became central midfielders under van Gaal for example.

Schweinsteiger too.

 

[Sixpence]

I don't think we'll see him again in a United shirt. Ever since he got here he's been far too happy to just saunter around the pitch at a testimonial pace popping ineffective little 5 yard passes off. With his ability he should be grabbing a game but he just doesn't and overall doesn't look like he wants it enough.

 

[Mad Winger]

He was good in our first season. He was one of our best players in Europe this season. I'm still convinced that our style just doesn't suit him. He'd be immense for teams like City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Real, Barca and Bayern.

Personally, I'd rather we change our style, because frankly, it sucks. Hopefully Van Gaal can do this.

 

[devilish]

JSV mark 2

 

[Melvyn]

I don't know how people can watch the match right now and not think that it's our playing style that needs a drastic overhaul. Every player has looked poor out there. Mata is only vindicated because he scored a nice free kick.

 

[sizzling sausages]

Actually give him a run in his proper position and he would be good. Or even out left with Mata central. Playing him deep or out left with no movement or pace in central is just stupid.

 

[Mad Winger]

I don't know how people can watch the match right now and not think that it's our playing style that needs a drastic overhaul. Every player has looked poor out there. Mata is only vindicated because he scored a nice free kick.

This so much!

Mata has his freekicks, is allowed to play in his favored position, and starts almost every game. Would he have looked better than Kagawa if he had to play out of position 80% of the time, and spend a considerable amount of time on the bench? I really doubt it. But people are gonna pretend that this is the case, because Mata is PL proven and expensive. He can do no wrong then.

 

[Speak]

I don't know how people can watch the match right now and not think that it's our playing style that needs a drastic overhaul. Every player has looked poor out there. Mata is only vindicated because he scored a nice free kick.

The style can't be changed without new players. Well it can, but we wont be winning much trying to play passing stuff without new players.

 

[Red Shorts]

No MW, it's because he is simply a better footballer

 

[Melvyn]

The style can't be changed without new players.

Yes. New CMs.

 

[17Larsson]

Actually give him a run in his proper position and he would be good. Or even out left with Mata central. Playing him deep or out left with no movement or pace in central is just stupid.

He doesn't help himself with awful performances in the positions that don't 'suit him'. He was crap today. I want to see how he does under LVG though

 

[Kayo]

Mata scores and assists.

Kagawa does neither.

Hope LVG gets so something out of him a he has been average at best since we signed him.

 

[Ekeke]

Trying to play him in central midfield next to Fletcher is about the most naive thing I've seen from us this season.

 

[DevilRed]

Mata scores and assists.

Kagawa does neither.

Hope LVG gets so something out of him a he has been average at best since we signed him.

Maybe a 4-3-3?

 

[Steven Seagull]

This so much!

Mata has his freekicks, is allowed to play in his favored position, and starts almost every game. Would he have looked better than Kagawa if he had to play out of position 80% of the time, and spend a considerable amount of time on the bench? I really doubt it. But people are gonna pretend that this is the case, because Mata is PL proven and expensive. He can do no wrong then.

Kagawa is clearly good enough to play here but the fact Mata can produce these moments on a regular basis means he's always more likely to get a place. Mata has shown he's able to perform better and produce more when outside his comfort zone. It's that simple for me

 

[Mad Winger]

No MW, it's because he is simply a better footballer

He's a better player, but my point is: would he have looked better than Kagawa on the left wing/central midfield, while also spending a lot of time on the bench? Hopefully we'll never have to know.

 

[sizzling sausages]

He doesn't help himself with awful performances in the positions that don't 'suit him'. He was crap today. I want to see how he does under LVG though

Kagawa had begun playing decently from the left recently and then all of a sudden he is moved again. If you are going to ask him to play in a different position you need to give him game time there to get used to it. Not keep moving him around.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

That completely kills the idea of playing Kagawa in midfield.

 

[Speak]

Yes. New CMs.

Yeah.

 

[Ekeke]

That completely kills the idea of playing Kagawa in midfield.

I remember watching Valencia get hammered with Silva in central midfield, conceeding 6 goals

Sometimes managers do make the selections kids make in their computer games

 

[ivaldo]

Of all the absolute shite we have at this club and people want to see Kagawa leave, unbelievable.