Did he work hard though?
Shinji Kagawa
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Well, i've said it couple of times already. I am yet to see Japan play any sort of good, attacking, fluid, whatever football. Even today, with Greece playing with one more man for like a 60 minutes they mostly resorted to crosses from the side. A diminutive japanese team! WTF! If they can play clever, play aruond teams that was the moment to show it.
Kagawa came on, had a decent amount of time as well, like 30 min and you know what, i just looked at that stats 95% of pass accuracy. That says it all. I would be a great stat if he was a Pirlo and his team had won. But being an attacking midfielder who was brought during a 0-0, when his team needed a win and played with more men, that is a clear indication that Kagawa as a top player lack a crucial and most important thing. Courage, decisiveness, boldness if you will. No way he is to succeed at United without that.
And Japan may well be kings of friendly matches. England like that as well, having beaten Spain, played 2-2 with Brazil if memory serves right. It's a real games, competitive ones that count. And only they truly matter. And today Japan looked ridiculous really.
Kagawa came on, had a decent amount of time as well, like 30 min and you know what, i just looked at that stats 95% of pass accuracy. That says it all. I would be a great stat if he was a Pirlo and his team had won. But being an attacking midfielder who was brought during a 0-0, when his team needed a win and played with more men, that is a clear indication that Kagawa as a top player lack a crucial and most important thing. Courage, decisiveness, boldness if you will. No way he is to succeed at United without that.
And Japan may well be kings of friendly matches. England like that as well, having beaten Spain, played 2-2 with Brazil if memory serves right. It's a real games, competitive ones that count. And only they truly matter. And today Japan looked ridiculous really.
He really lacks those qualities, he's supposed to score goals and create goals, yet he has done very little in two years. I don't even think RVP, Fergie, Rooney, Moyes et al have ruined him, he just isn't good enough.
Agree. just not his level. In Dortmund they had a very special team where he was on his place, yet he moved on and Dortmund with Reus and Goetze became even much stronger. But basically i think it was a case of player being much better in a certain team that he was overall. I think it's the same with their RM Blaszczykowski, he looked good for Dortmund, but put him in any other strong team, City, United, Munich, Barca, Real, Chelsea, any other and he would be an extremely average player clearly out of his depth. Same thing i think happened with Kagawa.
Cavani plays on the wing for PSG and still got 25 goals, I know its the french league, but that must say something about his talent.
Lost the ball 16 times.
Dispossessed 2 times and 4 turn overs. Similar to Welbeck, Rooney, Honda etc.
What annoys me about Kagawa having the "drop possession stats" of Rooney/Welbeck in the WC is that he has a great turnover and dispossession statistics for United even this season. Meaning he loses the ball due to his own mistakes least of our offensive players with Mata(who edges Kagawa with 0.1 less per game). The worst in the team by a mile is Januzaj who loses the ball due to individual mistakes two times more often than Mata/Kagawa and slightly more than Nani/Welbeck/Rooney who are poor in this regard as well.
In terms of being tackled/pushed off the ball by the opponent Mata is by far our worst player losing the ball 3 times per game this way. Closely followed by Nani and Rooney.
Really disappointed with Kagawa this World Cup, he is shooting himself in the foot here getting himself dropped and he was already in an outsider position with a need to prove himself, he can't afford it.
That's probably because he actually runs at players whilst Kagawa is too scared to.
Since Kagawa came here he has had great stats in terms of not loosing the ball either by tackle or own fault. Better so than Mata, but I believe it is mainly because they differ so much as players. Mata is more direct and therefore he will try to create a goal a lot faster, which is always riskier than what Kagawa does. Which is why Mata from last season had a lower passing accuracy than Kagawa as well.
Kagawa's game is more safer and deeper down the pitch. Getting his CM's to increase their tempo by being free, finding the pass back to them, receiving it again and then suddenly the team has pace.
That is why I like the idea of Mata and Kagawa in a midfield three with a great DM behind them who preferably has the physicality and long range passing nailed. They'd all provide different thing as long as Kagawa and Mata defends with their hearts on their sleeves.
You could easily swap Kagawa out for a CM who can sit deep and quicken the tempo though. I get what you mean by having a 3 with Mata and Kagawa, but another player can provide what Kagawa does and still be a proper CM in terms of positioning, ball retention and intercepting. I personally prefer Mata because he is direct, however keeps the ball when necessary.
I agree of course, there are some "complete" central midfielder, the absolute world-class ones who could play this role for us. Unfortunately for us it isn't too easy to attract these and we would be launching our entire transfer budget in the central midfield. We need a top class DM, we need an overall top class CM who is good defensively and offensively like Modric.
Considering Kagawa and Mata to share the CM role only makes sense if we:
1. Either don't manage to buy the top class "complete" midfielders which is likely as there aren't any available but Cesc and we missed him already.
2. LVG considers a DM-Kagawa-Mata to be an alright offensive triangle as his primary goal is investing the money he got in other areas. We almost certainly need a winger, depending on how you rate Nani/Young/Valencia, two. We also need a LB which if we end up getting Shaw will be as pricey as picking up the best wingers in the world.
In either scenario the CM trio would have to show it worked at the highest level or they would just get that "complete" midfielder as soon as they can.
I expect to see many farewells by the january window, I can see the likes of Fellaini/RooneyNani/Kagawa/Cleverley/Valencia/Young and so forth being asked to leave if they failed to impress.
19 players were sent out when LVG had his 2 seasons there.
Just 6 players were bought in to the first team the two seasons under LVG(A majority of players who came to the team were instead youths, or prior lent away talents and free agents.)
It will be extremely interesting to see who leaves and who gets that infinite confidence from him, it is usually quite odd.
Dropped by Japan? That's a new low.
Feel like it was more from the manager to make a point that nobody is undroppable, and it backfired. Got subbed on and looked better then all their other attackers (even though they didn't end up winning anyways).
Not really though, he was anonymous again. Had no impact against a 10 man Greece what so ever.
He had that nice pass in behind for the one clear cut chance. Probably all that was needed because other then that, nothing happened in the entire game.
Yeah I knew you where going to mention that pass, but so what, apart from that he did absolutely nothing against an incredibly rubbish side. Bundesliga player of the year, just as good as Mata we should play Rooney out of position for him build our team around him etc etc, he really is not that good, he is no where near top player lever, at least he hasnt been for the past couple of years, all he has are quite tidy games with a good pass here and there or games where he is invisible.
I said before he doesn't make as big of an impact as he should be able to. He has loads of talent and is excellent on the ball, but he just doesn't seem to have the mentality to step up and take charge. Anyways, I don't think anybody ever said he's as good as Mata, because he clearly isn't.
Kagawa allowed Japan to be more fluid and made their attacks more potent once he came on. They upped their pace, dragged the opposition around, and made it more difficult for the Greeks to defend, hence why they had more chances to score than they did without him. With him, there was more movement from the Japanese players, there were more spaces opened up than before, and possession was better retained in the final third. Plus, with Japan frequently trying to create chances by crossing the ball in through the full backs rather than through quick combinations and dynamism, Kagawa made Japan's full backs even more dangerous and allowed them more opportunities to create chances. Before his entry, Nagatomo and Uchida weren't as influential on the attack.
Kagawa pretty much did what he does. If people expected him to try defence-splitting through passes regularly, dribble past 2-3 players often, or take several long shots, then they will never be satisfied with this performance from Kagawa. What this performance showed is that Kagawa isn't someone who can ever take the game by the scruff of the neck and turn things around all by himself. What it showed, however, was that he will improve the team's performance as a whole, make them more dangerous on the attack, control the team's tempo, and increase the opportunities to create chances.
Kagawa pretty much did what he does. If people expected him to try defence-splitting through passes regularly, dribble past 2-3 players often, or take several long shots, then they will never be satisfied with this performance from Kagawa. What this performance showed is that Kagawa isn't someone who can ever take the game by the scruff of the neck and turn things around all by himself. What it showed, however, was that he will improve the team's performance as a whole, make them more dangerous on the attack, control the team's tempo, and increase the opportunities to create chances.
So what? It completely cut Greece open and was Japan's best chance of the match by a distance. You knew he was going to mention the pass because it goes completely against your initial statement. What way is that to make a point
Lost patience...Could care less if he stays or goes.
And people in the newbs were bashing me when I said that starting him ahead of Rooney is just a horrible idea.
Not gonna lie, I've been in the mains a long time and I was all for it.
But, it was all more in hope then anything else. His performances for us so far and anytime I've seen Japan, have just been average.
He's the Veron of this decade...Albeit cheaper and nowhere near as talented. Veron
Simply not good enough to start for us on a permanent basis
Especially now we have Mata. Far superior player
Not gonna lie, I've been in the mains a long time and I was all for it.
But, it was all more in hope then anything else. His performances for us so far and anytime I've seen Japan, have just been average.
He's the Veron of this decade...Albeit cheaper and nowhere near as talented. Veron
I still think he's a decent option on the bench.
(though Deep down in my heart I still think he might make it here)
Most people who want him to play do so because he is not worse than Valencia or Young. And those 2 guys have started or played too many times in the last 2 years for my liking.
Valencia plays in a different position so is completely irrelevant and Kagawa has played more than Young. If people hadn't so much invested in their opinion of him as a player then there would be less calls for him to play. In reality he's been little better than Young if at all. In fact I would say Young had a better first season than Kagawa.
Yup. We should've cashed in whilst Klopp still had the hots.
Started watching the game just as he came on, from match reports prior to his entree I understood that Japan played like shit. He brought some vibe into the team, I've seen him dribbling ( which has happened hardly ever in United shirt ) and he's played magnificent ball to their fullback ( Ushida that was ? ) who basically provided a 100% to their striker who bottled it. Yet another match where Japan are horribly wasteful up front. Kagawa himself looked way above every other player though, that's including Honda who usually outshines him.
That's what I saw too, not knowing why the rest considered him being poor.
Other than perhaps one or two players Januzaj played better than just about everybody. That said, centrally he was not as good as Kagawa.
In my personal opinion a winger needs characteristics Kagawa doesn't possess therefore it's central or sold. I personally think Januzaj should develop out wide for the time being due to increased playing time and our need for quality wide players.
Rooney and Mata might be better than Kagawa but such is their level both must be first choice, I don't see the point in benching either Rooney or Mata because they simply won't be happy and that in itself can cause problems. Kagawa would be content as second choice so for me it makes sense to make him the second choice number 10 and then for LvG to choose one of Rooney or Mata to be first choice and then as for the one left out preferably find a way of fitting him also in the team. E.g. Making use of Rooney's versatility if it's possible he possesses characteristics Louis would want in a player either as number 8 or out wide, if he does not see potential in Rooney to fulfil another role in his system then I would like him to find a formation that allows for RVP, Rooney and Mata.
Was he injured so he couldn't play the full 90mins or did the manager straight drop him?
I'm assuming you watched the post match conference so probably know what the manager said.
He's like our own little Scouser.
So what? It completely cut Greece open and was Japan's best chance of the match by a distance. You knew he was going to mention the pass because it goes completely against your initial statement. What way is that to make a point
Oh come one mate, is that enough to justify anything? Rooney could do 4 of those passes and they wouldnt even get mentioned, he scores and assists and people still moan, yet when Kagawa is invisible for a whole game again yet has one good pass that leads to nothing thats enough? come on he has been rubbish in this world cup and has been average for us all season at most.
Actually it's not because of that, Mata is dispossessed with the ball,when he controls the ball he is not very good at protecting the ball at that specific moment.
While Kagawa i excellent at that, Kagawa is a player who takes a lot of risks in his passing, he will lose the ball a lot and have a low passing success rate and when he is not confident in himself, he is just dreadful.
I think that he is not tough enough to be a top player, he doesn't have the mentality for it.
The level of Kagawa devotion in the Newbies is something to behold.
I tend to think of myself as a pretty hardcore Rooney fanboy - while still retaining a modicum of objectivity when it comes to his performances, I hope - but these guys and girls were something else.
Remember someone once defending a Kagawa performance, for example, based on his 'clever hand signals' (whatever they are) which were clearly more important in creating a goal than the assist and the finish itself.
And then there was the famous video of Kagawa's awesomeness against Olympiakos, which was essentially a montage of him making a series of fairly routine runs into midfield space, and then not receiving a pass that might have been on, as demonstrated by Big White Arrows which someone had super-imposed over the top of it.
It had grown men weeping at the sight of such a monumental genius being so badly misused. . . .
I have nothing against the lad, and do in fact want him to succeed here. I remember when we signed Kagawa, and Chelsea signed Hazard, arguing that we might even have got the best deal, given the relative prices. I had a sneaking suspicion that he'd be a revelation.
But there's only so far you can go in trying to disguise the fact that his United career to date has been underwhelming, and it can't all be attributed to Moyes/the system/Rooney/mercury in retrograde/etc.
Finally people are realizing that he's just not all that. I was hoping he would have a decent WC and we would make a bit of money on him, doesn't look likely.
Kagawa gets pushed off the ball too easily. I'd rather a player who runs at players and lose it a couple times than someone who doesn't want to take risks.
Januzaj is a perfect example of someone who could easily just keep it safe, but chooses to run at players and causes danger. Kagawa is on the peripheral most the time and it isn't good enough.
You're compairing two differents situation, Januzaj is also pushed off the ball easily, like Mata. But they are all different, It's hard to take the ball from Kagawa when he controls it because he will be in mouvement, Januzaj is exciting because he runs at players, Mata is the best because he has Kagawa passing vision but in more effective and he runs at players, he also has a tough mental.
Kagawa needs to be boost mentally all the time, if not he is not really good, but when he is, is excellent. He reminds me a tremendous rugby player Kurtley Beale, you can't trust and therefore can't build your team around him, but you can use him effectively, if you take care of him.
Too many times have I seen Kagawa casually jogging with the ball and being easily tackled. He lacks aggression and urgency at times. I don't agree that Januzaj gets pushed off the ball easily, there's a reason why he is fouled soo much.
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