At least this is a debate featuring two legit clubs; in contrast, when BobbyManc got promoted, City brought out a dvd.
Last edited:
CL 14/15 Group Stage Matchday 4 - October 4th/5th
- Thread starter Piratesoup
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
That makes zero difference. Would Chelsea be this good in Europe without Roman? No. That's it.
Yeah possibly, those were the nearest clubs I could get though.
No, but you make the claim that its all down to money when it clearly isn't. Theres a difference between money being one factor of many and being the ONLY factor.
Money is a universal factor, pretty much any club that aspires to be the best in Europe must have a lot of it.
Basically. I think a lot of the (at least my own) quibbles with sugar daddy owners is the fact that they can use their vast wealth to attract players to the club who had probably barely heard of them. Yaya Toure moving to City for example, the wages they had to pay him, the project they had to present etc. City went from a team aiming for 10th-15th to a side that could attract Robinho, Toure etc.
Chelsea on the other hand bought players that were relative to where they were as a club at first iirc. Duff, Johnson, Joe Cole, Wayne Bridge (Ok City bought him too, fair enough...)
Maybe i'm just exhibiting a "sugar daddies were better in the old days!" view, but that's the way i saw it at the time.
Another reason why we have been more successful than City. We did not get as many mercenary type players, certainly not in the first 3 seasons anyway, we had a core of players who were relatively cheap and who loved the club. We quickly developed a team spirit and workrate that is similar to SAF's United which still lasts with us today.
Look at the way things have gone for Monaco, Malaga and QPR, and the way they may go for City and PSG n future seasons. City could only afford Mangala at an overprice this summer, whereas we managed to get Fabregas, Costa, Luis, and Remy, and break even.
I think City will get there eventually. Iirc Kompany joined them before the takeover, he's obviously got a fair affinity with the club now. Zabaleta, Hart...The longer they're at the top the better they'll become in this regard. My general annoyance with City was actually a while ago when they were going round throwing millions at Kaka and the like.
Half wish he'd said yes now.
Spot on. I was debating this a few months ago in another thread. You can't lump Chelsea in the same group as the likes of City/Monaco/Anzhi
Yeah, I agree with this. Then again, my view is swayed by growing up and living in Stockport for 18 years so maybe I've a natural inclination to dislike City fans more than other United fans do from elsewhere.
I'm probably a bit stranger in that i genuinely don't dislike fans of any club so long as they're alright. A bit of humility etc.
The shaven headed lunatics you get that won't accept that Glenn Johnson isn't 'DA BEZT RITE BAKK EVA!' when he clearly should be playing backgammon or generally doing something else with his time are the worst.
I don't remember Chelsea offering 2 for 1 on Champions League games either to honest.
You've not exactly been that much more successful than City. To say you were took over earlier and from a much healthier starting point, you've won three leagues to our two, performed much better in Europe winning the Champions League + Europa League once, won 4 FA Cups to our 1 and 2 League cups to our 1. Abramovich bought Chelsea in 2003 and Sheikh Mansour bought City in 2008. I don't think it's unrealistic to say that by 2018 we will have matched the amount of league titles Chelsea won in their first 10 years under Abramovich, while matching European success is looking less likely it's not impossible we will win the Champions League by then. Then winning the FA Cup and League Cup is just a bit of a lottery and an irrelevancy in comparison to be quite honest but we'll probably win at least another one of them by 2018. Like I said, considering you started from a better position, I don't think you can say Chelsea have been more successful than City by any great degree.
Real Madrid were really poor in the second half by their standards, should have had at least 3 by half time though when they were playing some lovely stuff.
As for Arsenal..............
As for Arsenal..............
English clubs are really a joke this season......the germans can be really proud of their clubs
Chelsea
Okay they're doing a "normal job" for the group stage in regard to the opponents (Although i still would like to kill the whole club for the draw against Schalke.....it had cost me 1830 quids....the stake was 20 quids.....feckin rentboys......i blame @ItsEssexRob )
Manchester City
Another tough group or not. They should have beaten Roma at home and of course the result against CSKA Moscow was a disaster too.
If the results are going their normal way in the group
Bayern Munich vs Roma - Home win
Manchester City vs CSKA Moscow - Home win
CSKA Moscow vs AS Roma - Away win
Manchester City vs Bayern Munich - Draw (Maybe Bayern Munich will rest some players)
Matchday 6
Roma (7 points) vs Manchester City (6 points)
Maybe they're lucky and have one point more than Roma but however this match will then show everything you need to know where City are in Europe.
Arsenal
They will go through no doubt about that. Yeah you can lose in Dortmund and they were great against Galatasaray. But it's unacceptable that Arsenal are struggling so much against a side like Anderlecht in two games. Of course you can struggle once against Anderlecht like in the first game......but the result tonight is unacceptable.
They're really must beat Dortmund in three weeks to show they can compete against level 2 teams (Level 1 teams are Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern Munich & Chelsea in my eyes).
And like said they must hope to get Leverkusen or FC Porto/Shakhtar Donetsk then in the next round.
Liverpool
Of course you can lose twice against Real Madrid. You can lose also away against Basel (Many english clubs had problems with them in the last seasons). But they were poor against Razgrad at home and lucky their goalkeeper was stupid.
And if i hear some Liverpool players/fans "Oh a draw away to Razgrad.....Real Madrid will beat anyway Basel....and then a home win against Basel and we're through" then i'm going crazy
They must go to Razgrad and WIN THE MATCH!!!!!
1) What if Basel will get a draw against Real Madrid and Liverpool will play draw against Razgrad....then Liverpool must win 2-0 or 3-1 against Basel and i can't see that at the moment
2) They're needing confidence in this competition.
Chelsea
Okay they're doing a "normal job" for the group stage in regard to the opponents (Although i still would like to kill the whole club for the draw against Schalke.....it had cost me 1830 quids....the stake was 20 quids.....feckin rentboys......i blame @ItsEssexRob
)Manchester City
Another tough group or not. They should have beaten Roma at home and of course the result against CSKA Moscow was a disaster too.
If the results are going their normal way in the group
Bayern Munich vs Roma - Home win
Manchester City vs CSKA Moscow - Home win
CSKA Moscow vs AS Roma - Away win
Manchester City vs Bayern Munich - Draw (Maybe Bayern Munich will rest some players)
Matchday 6
Roma (7 points) vs Manchester City (6 points)
Maybe they're lucky and have one point more than Roma but however this match will then show everything you need to know where City are in Europe.
Arsenal
They will go through no doubt about that. Yeah you can lose in Dortmund and they were great against Galatasaray. But it's unacceptable that Arsenal are struggling so much against a side like Anderlecht in two games. Of course you can struggle once against Anderlecht like in the first game......but the result tonight is unacceptable.
They're really must beat Dortmund in three weeks to show they can compete against level 2 teams (Level 1 teams are Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern Munich & Chelsea in my eyes).
And like said they must hope to get Leverkusen or FC Porto/Shakhtar Donetsk then in the next round.
Liverpool
Of course you can lose twice against Real Madrid. You can lose also away against Basel (Many english clubs had problems with them in the last seasons). But they were poor against Razgrad at home and lucky their goalkeeper was stupid.
And if i hear some Liverpool players/fans "Oh a draw away to Razgrad.....Real Madrid will beat anyway Basel....and then a home win against Basel and we're through" then i'm going crazy
They must go to Razgrad and WIN THE MATCH!!!!!
1) What if Basel will get a draw against Real Madrid and Liverpool will play draw against Razgrad....then Liverpool must win 2-0 or 3-1 against Basel and i can't see that at the moment
2) They're needing confidence in this competition.
And Vidal is a idiot!!!
You've not exactly been that much more successful than City. To say you were took over earlier and from a much healthier starting point, you've won three leagues to our two, performed much better in Europe winning the Champions League + Europa League once, won 4 FA Cups to our 1 and 2 League cups to our 1. Abramovich bought Chelsea in 2003 and Sheikh Mansour bought City in 2008. I don't think it's unrealistic to say that by 2018 we will have matched the amount of league titles Chelsea won in their first 10 years under Abramovich, while matching European success is looking less likely it's not impossible we will win the Champions League by then. Then winning the FA Cup and League Cup is just a bit of a lottery and an irrelevancy in comparison to be quite honest but we'll probably win at least another one of them by 2018. Like I said, considering you started from a better position, I don't think you can say Chelsea have been more successful than City by any great degree.
Of course you can because that view would be based on actual facts and not predictions like you did. Obviously the better comparison should be on the same number of years.
Shocking discipline in the side yesterday, played like amateurs defending all night long. When we went 3-0 up decided to play with even less shape and organisation, fecking joke of a performance
You've not exactly been that much more successful than City. To say you were took over earlier and from a much healthier starting point, you've won three leagues to our two, performed much better in Europe winning the Champions League + Europa League once, won 4 FA Cups to our 1 and 2 League cups to our 1. Abramovich bought Chelsea in 2003 and Sheikh Mansour bought City in 2008. I don't think it's unrealistic to say that by 2018 we will have matched the amount of league titles Chelsea won in their first 10 years under Abramovich, while matching European success is looking less likely it's not impossible we will win the Champions League by then. Then winning the FA Cup and League Cup is just a bit of a lottery and an irrelevancy in comparison to be quite honest but we'll probably win at least another one of them by 2018. Like I said, considering you started from a better position, I don't think you can say Chelsea have been more successful than City by any great degree.
Even if you ignore the 4 fa cups the 2 league cups the 3 titles, the Champions league, Europa league and 2 comm shields. Our overall success has been better, us and United basically kept Englands co-efficient up over the past 8 years with all the semis, finals and wins we had. However the most important thing is that as a sugar daddy club you become self sufficient and savvy. I would be worried about the future implications of FFP for clubs like PSG and City, and this summer has shown its affect on City for the first time.
No matter how much or how long you succeed, teams like Chelsea, City and PSG will be plastic for me forever. I will never feel respect for this clubs like i do for United, Bayern, Barca etc. Not in hundred years. (maybe just if they lose all their money and players, get relegated and fight back in a Dortmund-esque style over a couple of years)
"Just a bunch of plastics".....
No matter how much or how long you succeed, teams like Chelsea, City and PSG will be plastic for me forever. I will never respect feel respect for this clubs like i do for United, Bayern, Barca etc. Never ever! (maybe just if they lose all their money and players, get relegated and fight back in a Dortmund-esque style over a couple of years)
"Just a bunch of plastics".....
Then you are a disrespectful football fan. I am interested in what teams do on the pitch not how they got some of their money, football is a game not a business. So you had respect for us in the late 90's when we were winning cups and getting to the top, but suddenly not when we went from near the top to the very top?
Basically its sour grapes. The only thing left to bash certain clubs with is how they got their money, its petty and pathetic.
I understand the notion that Chelsea actually have an own identity even though they won the lottery a decade ago while City definitely still lack something like that. Chelsea instantly turned into an European top team and annoyingly never went away again and at the moment seem to take a sensible financial approach, but still continue to do well in all competitions. The transition from Abramovich' toy to what looks like a self-sufficient club in the past few years deserves some respect in my opinion, because few 'sugardaddy clubs' managed to pull it off. You just need to look at Italian football to see how deep you can fall the moment club owners stop investing their own money into these type of clubs. City have some way to go if they want to do the same, act within FFP, keep the performance level in the league and significantly improve in Europe.
It's still funny to see a Chelsea fan calling City 'plastic' though. Poor choice of words.
It's still funny to see a Chelsea fan calling City 'plastic' though. Poor choice of words
.I understand the notion that Chelsea actually have an own identity even though they won the lottery a decade ago while City definitely still lack something like that. Chelsea instantly turned into an European top team and annoyingly never went away again and at the moment seem to take a sensible financial approach, but still continue to do well in all competitions. The transition from Abramovich' toy to what looks like a self-sufficient club in the past few years deserves some respect in my opinion, because few 'sugardaddy clubs' managed to pull it off. You just need to look at Italian football to see how deep you can fall the moment club owners stop investing their own money into these type of clubs. City have some way to go if they want to do the same, act within FFP, keep the performance level in the league and significantly improve in Europe.
It's still funny to see a Chelsea fan calling City 'plastic' though. Poor choice of words
That was the point.
As you said, Chelsea is doing good work. No one can decline that. They even start to sell players to work with FFP and to get their own money. When i see how Paris is working with FFP then i can feel respect for Chelsea in that regard. But still i will never forget where Chelsea is coming from and a Chelsea fan shouldn't ever have the right to call someone plastic.
I'm really gutted after the Atletico game. Malmö played some of the best football I've ever seen them play. We had shots cleared on the line, hit the post. I think we really deserved something from this game.
Mark Clattenburg though, what an absolutely shit referee he is.
First half, he referees in a shirt almost identical in colour to the Atletico players, so both Mandzukic and Turan headed the ball to him once each. He then changed his shirt.
He misses a very clear penalty for Malmö, instead opting to give us a free kick on the edge. The free kick turns into a hand ball for Atletico, no penalty given there either. Every single 50/50 is given to Atletico. It's almost like he wanted to prove that the atmosphere didn't affect him and went too far the other way.
At the end of the day, Atletico had 2 really decent chances, and they scored on both. That's the difference in quality between the elite and Malmö, I guess. They don't need all those chances that Malmö had and didn't convert.
Very disappointed.
Edit: I'm disappointed with the result, not with the players or with the atmosphere! I can barely talk today due to the singing. I'm very proud of the supporters. At least we win the CL in stadium atmosphere!
Mark Clattenburg though, what an absolutely shit referee he is.
First half, he referees in a shirt almost identical in colour to the Atletico players, so both Mandzukic and Turan headed the ball to him once each. He then changed his shirt.
He misses a very clear penalty for Malmö, instead opting to give us a free kick on the edge. The free kick turns into a hand ball for Atletico, no penalty given there either. Every single 50/50 is given to Atletico. It's almost like he wanted to prove that the atmosphere didn't affect him and went too far the other way.
At the end of the day, Atletico had 2 really decent chances, and they scored on both. That's the difference in quality between the elite and Malmö, I guess. They don't need all those chances that Malmö had and didn't convert.
Very disappointed.
Edit: I'm disappointed with the result, not with the players or with the atmosphere! I can barely talk today due to the singing. I'm very proud of the supporters. At least we win the CL in stadium atmosphere!
Last edited:
How is this man still being considered for CL games?
I'm looking forward to Ajax - Barcelona tonight. Last year, we managed to win at home and maybe, just maybe we can pull a stunt like that off again. Is anyone else tuning in or are the Dutchies not exactly interesting? Not meant in a disrespectful way, just curious.
I will watch the Bayern - Roma game obviously but i will surely watch the highlights afterwards.
Good luck to Ajax! Always liked the club.
Maybe?? With Enrique as coach, you have even better chance of winning.
My prediction is 2-1 to Ajax.
And that won't be any upset or 'stunt'
Embrace the plastic, man. It's not going away, it's part of your history and you'll have to come to terms with it eventually. It'll always be the spot on your white shirt. Well, that and me thinking you just got lucky vs. Bayern in that final. :P
If it's any consolation, I think City deserves the plastic attribute more than Chelsea. So don't get riled up by it. Could be worse. You could be 15th in the league and never play CL.
I would not be that surprised to be honest, since Ajax can fight when they need to (and if de Boer makes the right choices in his selection) and Barcelona is not playing well at all. We'll see what we see, but if we managed to snag a win, I'd say it's a 2-1 too. Gonna go for a lovely Schone goal from a free kick and a El Ghazi screamer.
But that might be wishful thinking. hehe
Hope we field a weaker side as well tonight, given we have a much healthier position and are playing an awful team. The last person Brendan wants to be trying weird tactics on is Jose. We have to put these minnows in their place at the weekend.
It's not predictions. Look at what City have won in six full seasons since Sheikh Mansour bought us. 1 FA Cup, 1 League Cup and 2 League titles. In the first six full seasons Chelsea had under Abramovich they won 2 league titles, 2 FA Cups and 2 League Cups. They also performed much more admirably in Europe during those six seasons as well, but like I said, given the fact they started from a much better position than us, I don't think you can say Chelsea have performed better than City by any great degree.
My prediction was that in the next 4 years we will win one league title, at least one FA or League Cup, and we could win a Champions League; we have the quality to do so, all we need is to play with confidence and a bit of luck.
Scholesy
You would need much more than just a bit of luck...
Chelsea had a lot of luck - yes - but they had a great mentality and a match plan whereas City in Europe is just clueless.
Parking the bus and counter attacking seems to be the only possible method for the EPL teams in the last seasons to get any further than into the round 16 of the CL.
Well yeah we look clueless right now but my point was we have the quality to win it. It's not that unlikely that within the next few seasons we start to improve our performances in Europe. It's basically a question of when, not if.
City are going to have to be a bit more solid defensively to even threaten winning it. Toure in a midfield two is a problem. As is the fact that Nastasic and Mangala do not look convincing to me at all.
We signed Fernando with the intent to play 3 in midfield. He was injured the first few games though. Defensively, Zabaleta-Kompany-Demichelis-Kolarov is good enough for the time being but hopefully Mangala will live up to his potential and turn it from a solid defence into one of the best in Europe.