CL 14/15 Group Stage Matchday 4 - October 4th/5th

BobbyManc said:
Well yeah we look clueless right now but my point was we have the quality to win it. It's not that unlikely that within the next few seasons we start to improve our performances in Europe. It's basically a question of when, not if.
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Easier said than done. If you look at the teams which have won the CL over the years and decades, apart from maybe a couple of exceptions, those teams had come close in previous years, suffered late in the competition, learnt from it, and finally won it (and still needed a bit of luck ON TOP of all the above mentioned).

United in 99 lost a semi to Dortmund in 97, we also lost both group games to Juventus (THE dominant team of that era), then in 98 we at least managed to beat Juventus once, and in 99 we finally managed to kick them out of the semis and win the whole thing.

In 2007 we performed brilliantly until the semis, in the 2nd leg we were too tired against a well rested Milan while our defence was injured (shock horror). But we kind of gave it away in the first leg despite our 3-2 win as we conceded 2 goals at OT. Next year we learnt from it, focused on the defence and hardly conceded any goals in our winning campain that year.

RM lost 3 semis before winning the Decima.

Bayern Munich lost 2 CL finals before winning it in 2013.

Chelsea lost countless semis and a final before winning it.

So if we follow that pattern, teams like Dortmund and Atletico who came very close to winning it are much better prepared to win it in the next few years than City.
And then there are still RM, Bayern, Chelsea, ...

City on the other hand in their 3-4 years of CL haven't made any progress. And your top performers such as Toure, Silva, Zabaleta, Fernandinho won't be the same players in 2-3 years as they are in their prime right now.

I really don't see City winning it any time soon. Too many things lacking for that: Lack of learning in the competition, management not on a level tactically to win it, weak mentality at least in the CL, not the youngest squad, a lot of other quality teams.
 
BobbyManc said:
We signed Fernando with the intent to play 3 in midfield. He was injured the first few games though. Defensively, Zabaleta-Kompany-Demichelis-Kolarov is good enough for the time being but hopefully Mangala will live up to his potential and turn it from a solid defence into one of the best in Europe.
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It is not a team - but 11 single players that are thrown together without a lot teamplay. You win out of individual class but not because of special tactical sense of the players, teamwork or workrate. That might be fine in the EPL were a lot of the teams work like this - but it is not enough for Europe.

The other teams there have great individuals, too - but add tactics and workrate to it.
 
united_99 said:
Easier said than done. If you look at the teams which have won the CL over the years and decades, apart from maybe a couple of exceptions, those teams had come close in previous years, suffered late in the competition, learnt from it, and finally won it (and still needed a bit of luck ON TOP of all the above mentioned).

United in 99 lost a semi to Dortmund in 97, we also lost both group games to Juventus (THE dominant team of that era), then in 98 we at least managed to beat Juventus once, and in 99 we finally managed to kick them out of the semis and win the whole thing.

In 2007 we performed brilliantly until the semis, in the 2nd leg we were too tired against a well rested Milan while our defence was injured (shock horror). But we kind of gave it away in the first leg despite our 3-2 win as we conceded 2 goals at OT. Next year we learnt from it, focused on the defence and hardly conceded any goals in our winning campain that year.

RM lost 3 semis before winning the Decima.

Bayern Munich lost 2 CL finals before winning it in 2013.

Chelsea lost countless semis and a final before winning it.

So if we follow that pattern, teams like Dortmund and Atletico who came very close to winning it are much better prepared to win it in the next few years than City.
And then there are still RM, Bayern, Chelsea, ...

City on the other hand in their 3-4 years of CL haven't made any progress. And your top performers such as Toure, Silva, Zabaleta, Fernandinho won't be the same players in 2-3 years as they are in their prime right now.

I really don't see City winning it any time soon. Too many things lacking for that: Lack of learning in the competition, management not on a level tactically to win it, weak mentality at least in the CL, not the youngest squad, a lot of other quality teams.
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Through bad luck. :angel:

Ranieri cocked up in 2004 vs Monaco, ghost goal 2005 Vs Liverpool, well beaten in 2006 Vs Barca, penalties in 2007 Vs Liverpool, a slip in 2008 Vs Utd, cheated out of it in 2009 Vs Barca, well beaten in 2010 and 2011, won in 2012. :cool:
 
TheShedEnd said:
Through bad luck. :angel:

Ranieri cocked up in 2004 vs Monaco, ghost goal 2005 Vs Liverpool, well beaten in 2006 Vs Barca, penalties in 2007 Vs Liverpool, a slip in 2008 Vs Utd, cheated out of it in 2009 Vs Barca, well beaten in 2010 and 2011, won in 2012. :cool:
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It is always bad luck...

You fight your luck. That is what you did in 2012...
 
Blackwidow said:
It is not a team - but 11 single players that are thrown together without a lot teamplay. You win out of individual class but not because of special tactical sense of the players, teamwork or workrate. That might be fine in the EPL were a lot of the teams work like this - but it is not enough for Europe.

The other teams there have great individuals, too - but add tactics and workrate to it.
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100% this!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Piqué dropped again for Barcelona. Looks pretty bad for him now, future must be in doubt if this continues.

He can't complain though, he's been shit.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Piqué dropped again for Barcelona. Looks pretty bad for him now, future must be in doubt if this continues.

He can't complain though, he's been shit.
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They ought to drop half their team. Iniesta's currently injured but should be dropped anyway, as should Busquets, Alves, Pique and Pedro.
 
BobbyManc said:
It's not predictions. Look at what City have won in six full seasons since Sheikh Mansour bought us. 1 FA Cup, 1 League Cup and 2 League titles. In the first six full seasons Chelsea had under Abramovich they won 2 league titles, 2 FA Cups and 2 League Cups. They also performed much more admirably in Europe during those six seasons as well, but like I said, given the fact they started from a much better position than us, I don't think you can say Chelsea have performed better than City by any great degree.
My prediction was that in the next 4 years we will win one league title, at least one FA or League Cup, and we could win a Champions League; we have the quality to do so, all we need is to play with confidence and a bit of luck.
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Who are you kidding, unless you are a proven psychic, you cannot say with absolute certain you'll win this or that amount of trophies in the next few years. Anything could happen you know.
 
kouroux said:
Who are you kidding, unless you are a proven psychic, you cannot say with absolute certain you'll win this or that amount of trophies in the next few years. Anything could happen you know.
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I just pointed out what has actually happened in the first six seasons under our respective ownerships. That isn't a prediction.
 
No Robben in Bayern's squad today. Got the taco shits apparently. :(
 
kouroux said:
And you used that information to make hypothesis. It was a prediction.
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No, read what I put again. They're separate points. My first point is comparing City's first six seasons with Chelsea's six seasons, taking into account the context of the clubs, the difference in success isn't much. That is an opinion based on what has happened.

My second point is a prediction, yes. I predict that by 2018 our first 10 years will also compare reasonably well to what Chelsea won in their first 10 years under Abramovich, again taking into account the context of the clubs.
 
Going for 1-2 to us. and City better win, Ive backed them massive in order to make back the 50 quid I lost on them in Moscow.
 
I actyally had my post made about 4 minutes ago.... I couldnt post it though before the games started
 
.. This is rather concerneing.. right now they arent even in the Europa spot. Want them to be busy
 
At leasst I didnt back City - 2 like I was thinking about.
 
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