I don't really see anyone discussing the formation tonight so I thought I'd start a thread.
So how come it didn't work tonight?
So how come it didn't work tonight?
4-4-2
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Don't think it was particularly balanced with the player selection to be honest. 433 would have been better.
De Gea
Valencia - Jones - Rojo - Blind
Fellaini - Carrick - Di Maria - Januzaj
Wilson - Falcao
Where's the imbalance?Valencia - Jones - Rojo - Blind
Fellaini - Carrick - Di Maria - Januzaj
Wilson - Falcao
Januzaj in central midfield and Di Maria as the #10. Carrick and Fellaini were poor and as a result, Wilson and Falcao weren't up to much.
Put Rooney, Mata, Herrera in there and move Di Maria back and it looks much better.
Put Rooney, Mata, Herrera in there and move Di Maria back and it looks much better.
So you've got a average right wing back (at best) playing right back and a centre midfielder on the right wing. Yep, there's no imbalance.
And we didn't play a flat 4-4-2 anyway.
I don't particular like the diamond to be honest, though if we are to play it you need a more mobile CM than Fellaini in the right midfield spot.
I'd prefer 4231 / 451 with a bit of width. Width is essential, and our fullbacks aren't good enough to provide it on their own.
I'd prefer 4231 / 451 with a bit of width. Width is essential, and our fullbacks aren't good enough to provide it on their own.
Blame the players, not the system.
In the second half we were much better and looked dangerous in possession. Shame we couldn't find that final touch.
Jones, Valencia, Di Maria, Januzaj, Fellaini, Falcao, and, to a lesser extent, Wilson should all have a long, hard look at themselves.
In the second half we were much better and looked dangerous in possession. Shame we couldn't find that final touch.
Jones, Valencia, Di Maria, Januzaj, Fellaini, Falcao, and, to a lesser extent, Wilson should all have a long, hard look at themselves.
I think this is right. Di María looks better when he's playing from deep. Januzaj wasn't playing very deep, and Fellaini was pretty anonymous, so in the end it was more like a 4-1-3-2, with a big gap between the 1 and the 3.
Ah right, so what would you have played tonight instead?
You can't see what's wrong with that?
No idea, but that team should be beating Cambridge, I’m fecking fuming tonight.
Even tonight, against a team that is in the second division, our players were afraid to take a risk, a manager from division two outsmarted LVG. I’m starting to think the problem isn’t with the formation, but the manager.
We've scored two goals and conceded four against three lower league teams.
Even tonight, against a team that is in the second division, our players were afraid to take a risk, a manager from division two outsmarted LVG. I’m starting to think the problem isn’t with the formation, but the manager.
We've scored two goals and conceded four against three lower league teams.
Fellaini isn't a winger?
Bollocks. The players play to tactics.
----------Valdes---------
Rafael-Jones-Rojo-Shaw
-----------Blind----------
--Di Maria-----Herrera--
----------Januzaj--------
----Wilson----Falcao----
Because, it basically means feck all. When the defenders have the ball the midfield pushes so high up we might as well be playing 4-0-6.
I really don't get why we do this.
Because the gap between Carrick and the rest of the midfield was huge for a lot the game, meaning the centre backs either played long ball or safely out to Valencia and Blind who couldn't get decent balls in. Herrera or Blind in the midfield would have given us way more balance.
We have no consistency in selection in terms of formation and personnel to get a good judgement on whether something does or doesn't work.
The only thing we've seen in a run of games with a fairly consistent line up in those games is the 532 and we can clearly see there's a pattern of very few chances created. This is the first time we've played a back 4 in months it feels like, hard to draw any conclusion on the formation's success.
The only thing we've seen in a run of games with a fairly consistent line up in those games is the 532 and we can clearly see there's a pattern of very few chances created. This is the first time we've played a back 4 in months it feels like, hard to draw any conclusion on the formation's success.
Blind is one of our only players who uses the ball well in the middle. By that I mean recycles it properly and probes with both his movement and passing. Alot like Herrera. He should have played through the middle.
Di Maria should have been more wider with Fellaini off the front men.
Fellaini shouldn't have been on the pitch full stop
Di Maria should have swapped with Januzaj. Think that would have made a big difference. That said, we didn't play well today. Lacked cohesion. Played too far away from each other.
The formation doesn't matter if the players don't offer passing options in possession and just stand around as far away from each other as possible.
Look at Bayern, they change formation many times each game, but they always overload the area near the ball, so the player in possession has a short pass to play and the chance for quick interplay to beat a tight defence.
Look at Bayern, they change formation many times each game, but they always overload the area near the ball, so the player in possession has a short pass to play and the chance for quick interplay to beat a tight defence.
Carrick was sitting so deep this was hardly 4-4-2
I'm just going with the line up given. I can understand him playing due to the type of game but he should have used him in the penalty box rather than how he did. Like his Everton days. Would have given us a better go to ball in the first half.
I would've loved to have herrera instead of felliani, for a start.
The formation wasn't bad really, we weren't threatened at all, we had the ball most of the game, which is why he loves 3-5-2 in the first place.
The midfielders today didn't really tick together, felliani on the right and di maria in the middle didn't look right, it seemed like the right formation but with the wrong combination of players.
The formation wasn't bad really, we weren't threatened at all, we had the ball most of the game, which is why he loves 3-5-2 in the first place.
The midfielders today didn't really tick together, felliani on the right and di maria in the middle didn't look right, it seemed like the right formation but with the wrong combination of players.
No conviction, nobody willing to take charge, no bravery from any player, only Rojo dared to look fearless.
The system/formation/process can sleep conscience free tonight, the players however ... We need some bigger characters capable of taking the game by its scruff and dragging us into life.
Sad to say but we need more Gerrard.
----------------------De Gea---------------------
--Valencia------Jones-------Rojo-------Shaw---
-----------------------Carrick---------------------
----------Herrera------------Blind/Di Maria-----
----------------------Januzaj---------------------
------------Wilson--------------Falcao-----------
--Valencia------Jones-------Rojo-------Shaw---
-----------------------Carrick---------------------
----------Herrera------------Blind/Di Maria-----
----------------------Januzaj---------------------
------------Wilson--------------Falcao-----------
4-2-3-1 - blind and carrick as the two in front of a back 4. herrera , rooney and di maria with RVP/falcao up top with overlapping play from the fb's one of which can not be valencia. blind will have a shot and can tackle , carrick wouldn't have to be alone picking up the ball. push rooney further forward.
4-4-2, 3-5-2, 4-2-3-1, 0-0-10. It shouldn't matter. We were playing Cambridge FFS. With the players we fielded, we should've walked this tie regardless of the tactics.
Well when you have Fellaini out on the wing for 70 minutes it's not going to be great regardless of the formation is it? Anyways, formation wasn't at fault, I don't think the players were either. Simply the style and lack of urgency and willingness to take risks and make things happen.
Like I said before the game, the team selection wasn't adventurous enough and had far too many defensive minded players in. Teams are calling our bluff and camping in their own half, which makes most of our players redundant. Managers are reading LVG like a book.
Completely agree.
I think the reason that was happening though is because of how Cambridge set up. Each time we turned over possession, they retreated quicker than Van Gaal's sphincter and held shape with 4 deep defenders (actually just in their own area) with 5 midfielders sitting barely just in front of them.
This meant there was absolutely zero space to run into for our attackers. It also meant that if our midfield got the ball, they had all the time in the world to pass it around in front of Cambridge, but it wouldn't create any space as they set up in such a way that whatever United player had the ball, if he looked to play forward he had one player closing him down and two players closing off each angle. So he passed it sideways, and the next player would step up and two shift behind him, same problem. It was an incredibly negative tactic but it's incredibly effective. You don't need to be brilliant footballers to do it, you just need to be drilled a bit on organisation and disciplined.
You then add that to a tight and short pitch, a surface with a load of potholes in it, howling rain and it's not going to be a vintage performance where players zip it around and break down the opposition.
No conviction, nobody willing to take charge, no bravery from any player, only Rojo dared to look fearless.
The system/formation/process can sleep conscience free tonight, the players however ... We need some bigger characters capable of taking the game by its scruff and dragging us into life.
Sad to say but we need more Gerrard.
You couldnt remember some ex United player?
Don't know why Fellaini is getting so much hate for starting. Won us the game last week and Herrera hasn't played much. This is the last thing we can win, LVG fielded what he thought was one of our strongest teams.
Yep, but as I’ve said in some other thread when the manager installs negativity in the team it’s hard to click out of that. The team is afraid of taking risks and it wasn’t until Herrera came on that we started to click. Herrera is a risk taker IMO and he finds himself on the bench week on week. I’m not saying the players are blame free, of course they aren’t, but the instructions come from the management team.
And im slightly drunk and pissed off.
Its standard stuff, he's the 1st to blame.
As we create nothing anyway, why don't we try playing with 1 striker in a 4-3-3 of some sort? Get an additional midfielder/wide forward in there and see what happens. Can't be worse than what we're serving anyway.
But two of Rooney, RVP and Falcao must be dropped so it won't happen, I know.
But two of Rooney, RVP and Falcao must be dropped so it won't happen, I know.
So you'd have had Carrick and Blind in midfield? Two defensive midfielders against Cambridge? And that would have helped our penetration?
---------------De Gea-------------
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
--------Carrick Blind----------
Herrera Mata Di Maria
-----------Rooney-----------
Anyone like the look of that?
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
--------Carrick Blind----------
Herrera Mata Di Maria
-----------Rooney-----------
Anyone like the look of that?