FreakyJim
90% of teams play better football than us
You think we look different now?For context...
The Moyes Golden era.
You think we look different now?For context...
The Moyes Golden era.
Chelsea never had any problems..Why shaft him? To appoint Giggs? Where would that leave us?
Also, we'd look a very suspect job to any potential suitors should we sack a second manager in a row so hastily. Not that there'll be many top managers available in the summer...
You think so? They appointed more shite managers than good...Chelsea never had any problems..
I think we will scrape top 4, it'll be ourselves and Arsenal.
I think he will make quite a few changes in the summer and get rid of a few names i.e. Mata for example. At this stage in time I am not terribly sure as to LVGs judgement due to the fact he's freezing out the wrong players and that worries me.
I don't see top 4 being an issue under him but in terms of revamping the entire side, I can't tell if he is being pragmatic or if he just has poor judgement I.e. dropping Herrera.. is that out of some need to let Herreea recover slowly and acclimatise or if he doesn't fancy him.
This time 2016 is the best time to judge him. I think he will still be there and that is when we will have a better grasp of what he stands for and what he is about. I for one never saw him as a 352 negative manager.. the Netherlands gig was a one off and I thought he's only doing this as a means to an ends philosophy. . Not because he believes in this formation in the long term.
If by january 2016 I don't see any improvements or any significant changes in personnel or style, I will not want him here. As of now I still have faith he will turn it round.
Is anyone keeping a list of names of the drama queens and/or impatient idiots on this forum? I would love to see it. @Damien is such a list possible?
Ha. Fabulous.That's what this thread is for. So we can laugh at them in a year or so.
Or be laughed at.
I've got a list in my head of a few of the most negative, myopic drama lamas but it would be unfair to write it down here as its bound to Getsme in trouble and that would just be Insanity on my part.
I've got a list in my head of a few of the most negative, myopic drama lamas but it would be unfair to write it down here as its bound to Getsme in trouble and that would just be Insanity on my part.
You can put me on that list, I'm impatient.
I'm skeptical about the need to gut and rebuild the entire club to play a certain vision instead of (at least for now) adapting and working with what we have right now. I'm concerned about the decline or stalled development of previously talented and highly rated players after arriving at MUFC. I'm worried about some of our best players and prospects leaving.
What practical value is a manager that needs loads of time, money by the hundreds of millions, and complete control over the squad to produce results? A truly gifted manager can make do with an imperfect squad and get them punching above their weight. We have seen nothing resembling that in the last two years.
He got us to play like this within 2 weeks without any new player.
6 months later there's no sign of that football to come.
That's what this thread is for. So we can laugh at them in a year or so.
Or be laughed at.
I've got a list in my head of a few of the most negative, myopic drama lamas but it would be unfair to write it down here as its bound to Getsme in trouble and that would just be Insanity on my part.
No, instead you talk about people behind their back, how am I being a 'drama Lama' BTW?That's what this thread is for. So we can laugh at them in a year or so.
Or be laughed at.
I've got a list in my head of a few of the most negative, myopic drama lamas but it would be unfair to write it down here as its bound to Getsme in trouble and that would just be Insanity on my part.
And ended up with the manager they got rid of in the first place.You think so? They appointed more shite managers than good...
I thought Friday night vindicated Van Gaals decision to go 352 to some extent. Everybody has been crying out for the dimond 442, Januzaj to start etc and the result was arguably the worst performance of the season.
Its not like the performances when playing 352 or 442 or 433 are like day and night. They arent.
We have put poor performances because we havent had players fit, players have played in unfamiliar positions (sometimes LVG selection rather than nessecity) and we have had a lot of younger players playing along side alot of new players. The players who have been key to our success over the years in rio, vida, evra are no longer around carrick missed the first part of the season and Di Maria, Rojo, Falcao and Blind all came in late. What did people expect other than dijointed performances. We will never get consistancey until the team selection is consistant.
Whilst not being in the champions league and league cup might be a blessing in desguise retrospectivley due to the injuries the lack of games also hasnt helped getting some momentum going.
Taking the positives, he came in and quickley identified that Welbeck, Hernandez, Cleverley, Anderson, Nani, Fletcher are not up to scratch. I am sure a number of others are on the cull list too but its simply not possibly to clear out a dozen players in one go. The players which he selected in Rojo and Blind look like brilliant business at less than £30m for the pair which gives me confidence going forward in whoever we sign.
Last summer we saw half a dozen in and half a dozen out. I suspect this summer will be the same. I expect our business to be done much earlier however. Van Gaal will want his squad more or less in place when we return to pre-season, not on september 1st. I dont expect much this window, maybe this dragovic or an equivelent type signing. Pogba / Hummels etc will not be happening.
So i am still very much in the pro Van Gaal camp. We are sat in 4th with everybody moaning about performances. With the qaulity that we have we will click at some point and the performances will come. Injury situation clearing i expect that improvement to be imminant.
Lets not forget, he had a job on his hands, he said it could take a while.
I disagree that it has vindicated him playing 352. I think it was a bit of a freak result given CU played out of thier skins for 90 minutes, united had to adapt to the system whilst trying to play againt a team that would have made it difficult for any team to play football. CU were fecked after HT due to the amount of closing down and running around they did in the first half. These results happen in the FA cup, so to dismiss the diamond based on a game like this would be farsical.
I appreciate it sounds like I am making up excuses for a top class squad not getting a result, but when they come to OT and have to play on a big pitch and hopefully try and play football, they will get battered.
Janujaz was, for me, one of the bright spark on Friday night. He is tricky, got pace and a brilliant first touch. His let down was any final ball, but given that CU had some many behind the ball, it would have been very difficult to pick out a player. Our overall slow play helped CU get behind the ball in numbers, but I think this is more to do with LvG playing it safe to protect our defence - something that he needs to address.
I hope he plays 4 at the back against Leciester.
On a side note: Just seen a stat that we are currently behind Burnley as the 2nd most long balls in the league and and amazing 350+ over this stage last season. Maybe this is the philosophy?
Wouldn't that be Manchester City?there is also a stat that says we have played by far the most short passes in the league!
Wouldn't that be Manchester City?
That's what this thread is for. So we can laugh at them in a year or so.
Or be laughed at.
I've got a list in my head of a few of the most negative, myopic drama lamas but it would be unfair to write it down here as its bound to Getsme in trouble and that would just be Insanity on my part.
This strikes me as an unfair characterisation of Van Gaal.What practical value is a manager that needs loads of time, money by the hundreds of millions, and complete control over the squad to produce results? A truly gifted manager can make do with an imperfect squad and get them punching above their weight. We have seen nothing resembling that in the last two years.
It seems to me a lot of people, not only on here but also ex pro's, media, etc., misunderstand Van Gaal and his so called 'philosophy'. Van Gaal would prefer to play an attacking passing game in a 4-3-3 system. However, in order to play that system you need defenders who can pass and who are technically proficient. At the moment United don't possess enough of those type of defenders. And to be quite frank, there are probably very defenders in World football at the moment who have those qualities and yet could cope with the physical nature & hectic of the Premier League.
It seems to me a lot of people, not only on here but also ex pro's, media, etc., misunderstand Van Gaal and his so called 'philosophy'. Van Gaal would prefer to play an attacking passing game in a 4-3-3 system. However, in order to play that system you need defenders who can pass and who are technically proficient. At the moment United don't possess enough of those type of defenders. And to be quite frank, there are probably very defenders in World football at the moment who have those qualities and yet could cope with the physical nature & hectic of the Premier League.
So, laying your chips on the table .. he might fail, but he might succeed.This seems like so long ago to me it seems like a blur, I'd almost forgotten I watched all this (probably because everyone says you can't pay attention to pre-season) … but it was very informative to see it again now, thank you!
At this point LvG was about a week back from the World Cup without a break (I was impressed IMA) and had not had time to implement his "philosophy" on the players which, in hindsight, seems to be:
With the attacking mentality we had pre-season (pre-LvG) from that team I'd simply replace Welbeck with RvP or Falcao and switch Fletcher for Carrick, then all you've got to do is either add Adnan or AdM for Toni and it would work with 3 at the back (Rojo for Evans of course) or go 4 with Shaw (drop Young move AdM left of a 4312)
- slow play down whenever possible,
- players off the ball should remain stationary or move sideways (but NEVER forwards)
- passing forward is forbidden when there is a chance to pass sideways (or preferably backwards)
- taking on an opposing player when there is a risk of losing the ball (lowering vital possession stats) is forbidden
Laying my chips:
1) LvG will persist bloody mindedly against all the evidence and not make the CL places … sacked
OR
2) He will finally prove he is more than just a one trick pony and start respecting our history of entertaining attacking football and we might still grab 3rd +FA cup this season, be up there battling for the league and CL next season, and naturally … treble winners in his final year when he retires at the top … Herzlich Willkommen Herr Klopp
Disagreed. I think this is pretty stupid to think that a simple change of formation will make us playing better. Most people on the caf “hate” 3-5-2 but that’s a shorthand. There’s nothing wrong with any formation if you have players who feel comfortable in it. Our problem is that we, or rather van Gaal, chose the wrong players to do job that they are not suited to- whatever formation we use. I’ve been saying this for a long time, any formation with all of Mata, Rooney, RvP, Falcao will not work in the EPL. They are too similar to each other and lack in the same areas.I thought Friday night vindicated Van Gaals decision to go 352 to some extent. Everybody has been crying out for the dimond 442, Januzaj to start etc and the result was arguably the worst performance of the season.
Its not like the performances when playing 352 or 442 or 433 are like day and night. They arent.
That’s true, joining the club after the WC and short preseason hadn’t helper either. There is a lot of things that went wrong, including injuries at the start of the season, but I think that he had enough time to build something. So far I don’t see a progress but at least results are decent.We have put poor performances because we havent had players fit, players have played in unfamiliar positions (sometimes LVG selection rather than nessecity) and we have had a lot of younger players playing along side alot of new players. The players who have been key to our success over the years in rio, vida, evra are no longer around carrick missed the first part of the season and Di Maria, Rojo, Falcao and Blind all came in late. What did people expect other than dijointed performances. We will never get consistancey until the team selection is consistant.
That I agree with 100%.My point was maybe not quite so clear. What i meant was that irrespective of formation, the performances are flat, we are not moving the ball quick enough and are very slow in our build up. I have said elsewhere, the formation doesnt change this. The mindset of the manager/players changes this. You can play 532 and be a very attack minded side or you can play 433 and place alot of emphsis on being tight at the back. Players make teams not formations.
That’s exactly the point that makes me a little annoyed. We all agree that we have defenders who are not very good on the ball. So, the most obvious solution would be to just build a midfield that can collect the ball from them and take care of the rest. But what do we do? We just play there Carrick on his own and a bunch of players who just stand in line with the opposition defenders. Or we just throw Mata and Rooney there. I honestly don’t know what makes him think they are good midfielders, Rooney has a good long passing ability but not sure what’s the case with Mata. Another LvG idea is Januzaj in the middle and Di Maria up front. Baffling decision making if you ask me.It seems to me a lot of people, not only on here but also ex pro's, media, etc., misunderstand Van Gaal and his so called 'philosophy'. Van Gaal would prefer to play an attacking passing game in a 4-3-3 system. However, in order to play that system you need defenders who can pass and who are technically proficient. At the moment United don't possess enough of those type of defenders. And to be quite frank, there are probably very defenders in World football at the moment who have those qualities and yet could cope with the physical nature & hectic of the Premier League.
I trust in LVG and I do think he will come good.
I must say I dislike the 352 and I think Herrera should be starting, he makes the midfield tick but in the first game he came back from the cracked rib he was not good and I think LVG may have lost a bit of faith in him....but he was just coming back from a cracked rib and was wearing a corset thing. He needs a run of games in the side.
If we played a 3 man midfield of blind, Herrera and Di Maria we would be kicking ass as that is a midfield that can take on anyone.
Once LVG gets in the defensive replacements we require (clyne and godin for me) we'll have a decent spine for the side to build on.
I think we'll make top 4 this year and challenge for the title next year.
Yes but we played Evans-Blackett (who was sent off) as CBs and Rojo as LB. I agree with your point but there are a lot of aspects that have to be considered in Leicester tragedy.That essentially was our midfield in the Leicester game.
Disagreed. I think this is pretty stupid to think that a simple change of formation will make us playing better. Most people on the caf “hate” 3-5-2 but that’s a shorthand. There’s nothing wrong with any formation if you have players who feel comfortable in it. Our problem is that we, or rather van Gaal, chose the wrong players to do job that they are not suited to- whatever formation we use. I’ve been saying this for a long time, any formation with all of Mata, Rooney, RvP, Falcao will not work in the EPL. They are too similar to each other and lack in the same areas.
That’s true, joining the club after the WC and short preseason hadn’t helper either. There is a lot of things that went wrong, including injuries at the start of the season, but I think that he had enough time to build something. So far I don’t see a progress but at least results are decent.
That I agree with 100%.
That’s exactly the point that makes me a little annoyed. We all agree that we have defenders who are not very good on the ball. So, the most obvious solution would be to just build a midfield that can collect the ball from them and take care of the rest. But what do we do? We just play there Carrick on his own and a bunch of players who just stand in line with the opposition defenders. Or we just throw Mata and Rooney there. I honestly don’t know what makes him think they are good midfielders, Rooney has a good long passing ability but not sure what’s the case with Mata. Another LvG idea is Januzaj in the middle and Di Maria up front. Baffling decision making if you ask me.
In my view van Gaal has not addressed our issues. I generally disagree with his idea for the team so far. The diamond is not perfect, but we had no problems in building from the back. What I would do is to try to use players in their preferred positions and find a balance defensively. I seriously don’t think we would be that bad with Blind/Carrick behind Rafael, Shaw, Smalling and Rojo. They are good defenders, just too much is being asked from our CBs right now. And seriously, there are literally a few (if any) defenders who would excel in our current system.
The funny thing is, our defence has been blamed for most of our problems, but recently not because they can’t defend, but because they don’t move with the ball forward. Any setup that allows (or forces) Phil Jones to move with the ball up to opposition box (because no other options are available) is idiotic in my opinion.
You don’t need suberb ball playing defenders to play 4-3-3. However, 3-5-2 is probably the only setup that actually requires CBs to travel forward with the ball and good passing skills. Which makes his decision to stick to it even more bizarre.
I trust he will come good, but to do that IMO he has to change his approach. Right now the results are okay, but we play one of the worst football around, despite having (at least) top 5 squad. Don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
I doubt even the most attack minded managers would play that midfield 3. QThat essentially was our midfield in the Leicester game.