American Cops Doing What They Do Best

bpet15 said:
I'm trying to wrap my pea sized brain around this one as I just haven't seen any statistics of people being disproportionately targeted - really not even sure how that stat would be kept. There is no question that minorities are disproportionately arrested but they also commit disproportionately more crimes. A 2012 NYPD report shows that 96% of shooting victims are minorities and 89% of all murder victims are minorities with 86% of suspects being minorities. The stats are similar when incorporating all violent crime. From this I can deduct that there will be more arrests of minorities than non-minorities simply because they are committing more of the crimes.

It is a very sad world indeed and all of us can do things to make it better but I just don't have a viable solution to put on the table as of yet.

If I am searching for an accountant to do my taxes, I am not going to search the slums of Brazil to try and find one...why should it be different for criminals? Doesn't it make sense that we have a much larger police presence in areas that are proven hot beds for crime?

No flames please as I truly am trying to understand the other sides thinking...I just haven't been able to do so yet.
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I'll respond tonight from a computer.
 
adexkola said:
Wrong. Anything other than a direct and imminent attempt to take someone else's life should NOT be met with deadly force, and the public have every right to protest, regardless of the person's actions prior to any police casualty.
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No right or wrong, just a difference of opinion.... and whilst I take your point, I also feel that it does nobody any favours to see protests to the extent that we have seen recently where the "victims" have been almost (erroneously) sanctified by the protesters, who seem to be either oblivious or indifferent to the circumstances which have led to the incident.

Responsibility has to be on both sides, yes lethal force should be restricted to extreme situations, but that shouldn't give carte blanche to people to act illegally, stupidly and with indifference to the consequences of their actions.

Regardless of right or wrong of police actions, people who place themselves in these situations have to accept their portion of the blame.

It is like poking a bear with a stick then complaining when the bear rips your arm off, the bear might be racist and you have to ask do we really want that type of bear around, but the fact is it is a bear, it is in front of you, you can chose to keep your arm or lose it!


What I would also like to add that the vast majority of African Americans, Hispanics and other minority races are wonderful human beings and law abiding citizens who are tarnished and repressed by awful statistics and media manipulation, so too the vast majority of police officers are wonderful people who try to be fair and treat with an open hand, and want nothing more than to go home to their families after a days work.... no matter where you look in life it is always the few bad apples that spoil the barrel, thanks to the media that is all we ever hear about.
 
Zed 101 said:
No right or wrong, just a difference of opinion.... and whilst I take your point, I also feel that it does nobody any favours to see protests to the extent that we have seen recently where the "victims" have been almost (erroneously) sanctified by the protesters, who seem to be either oblivious or indifferent to the circumstances which have led to the incident.

Responsibility has to be on both sides, yes lethal force should be restricted to extreme situations, but that shouldn't give carte blanche to people to act illegally, stupidly and with indifference to the consequences of their actions.

Regardless of right or wrong of police actions, people who place themselves in these situations have to accept their portion of the blame.

It is like poking a bear with a stick then complaining when the bear rips your arm off, the bear might be racist and you have to ask do we really want that type of bear around, but the fact is it is a bear, it is in front of you, you can chose to keep your arm or lose it!


What I would also like to add that the vast majority of African Americans, Hispanics and other minority races are wonderful human beings and law abiding citizens who are tarnished and repressed by awful statistics and media manipulation, so too the vast majority of police officers are wonderful people who try to be fair and treat with an open hand, and want nothing more than to go home to their families after a days work.... no matter where you look in life it is always the few bad apples that spoil the barrel, thanks to the media that is all we ever hear about.
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The entire point of the argument is cops shouldn't be bears.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
They're at it again.

Mainly linking this story because the video still used as the main picture is absolutely mental. Looks like something from Grand Theft Auto.
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That's horrific. Why is there no attempt to get the driver out either? A car engulfed in flames and they run away. How pathetic.

Edit: Actually read the article as well.

In the video, the officers don't appear to identify themselves to Martin when they approach the car — nor do they attempt to extinguish the fire.

"All three of those cars had large fire extinguishers in them and standard equipment," Iredale said. "Not one of these agents ever even tried to spray any of the fire extinguisher solution on that car."

"These agents approached in unmarked cars, in plain clothes and never identified themselves by the display of badges or even the simple statement 'Border Patrol,'" he added. "This was a senseless act in a senseless way for somebody who had violated no law and who lost their life needlessly."
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Remember though guys, as @Americano said, racism can't actually exist inside the police force because it's not possible or something.

San Francisco’s chief of police has moved to dismiss eight officers who allegedly sent and received racially charged and homophobic text messages that included references to lynchings, white power and burning crosses.

Chief Greg Suhr called the text messages “reprehensible” and “hateful” at a press conference on Friday, during which he sought to distinguish the misconduct of a few officers from the rest of his force.

“There were eight standing officers who engaged in such repulsive conversations via text messages,” Suhr said. “I have suspended them and they have been referred to the police commission with a recommendation of only termination – as it should be. Their conduct is incompatible with that of a police officer.”

Suhr’s recommendations come at a time of heightened scrutiny on the relationship between police officers and minority communities, snapped into focus by high-profile police killings in New York, Cleveland and Ferguson, where a US Department of Justice investigation revealed racist emails sent by police officers in the department there.

Fourteen San Francisco officers and department employees are alleged to have sent or received the text messages in 2011 and 2012. The messages included slurs against black people, Mexicans, Filipinos and gay people, police said. The phrase “white power” was used repeatedly.

One read: “All niggers must fecking hang.” Another said: “Cross burning lowers blood pressure! I did the test myself!”

The scandal reached the highest echelons of the force, with Suhr recommending the removal of a captain, a sergeant and six officers. The longest-serving officer had been on the force for 23 years. Suhr called it “particularly disheartening” that such individuals were involved.

Seven officers have been suspended; the eighth has already resigned. The San Francisco Chronicle reported that three of the eight officers implicated have either resigned or announced their intention to do so.

“I imagine more of them, if not all of them, are considering the same thing,” Suhr said on Friday.

At least two officers exchanged single text messages that were deemed inflammatory but “did not rise to the level” of the messages shared by the eight officers Suhr wants removed, he said. These officers have been moved to desk jobs.

“They can provide their explanations to the commission and the commission can decide if those officers should be terminated as well,” Suhr said.

Another four officers were involved in the scandal but Suhr said their actions did not warrant firing.

The revelations stem from a federal corruption case against former police sergeant Ian Furminger, who was convicted in December 2014 of stealing money and property from suspects and sentenced to 41 months in prison, pending appeal.

The text messages were disclosed in court filings during Furminger’s trial when prosecutors revealed that the 20-year department veteran had sent and received a series of racially charged text messages between October 2011 and June 2012. Prosecutors said the messages revealed that Furminger was a “virulent racist and homophobe”, belying “the fantasy that he is a person of character”.

In one exchange, Furminger asked an unnamed officer if he should be worried that the husband of his wife’s friend, who was black, had visited his home, according to court filings.

“Get ur pocket gun. Keep it available in case the monkey returns to his roots. Its [sic] not against the law to put an animal down,” the officer advised.

Furminger replied: “Well said!”

“You may have to kill the half-breeds too,” the unnamed officer responded. “Don’t worry. Their [sic] an abomination of nature anyway.”

George Gascón, the San Francisco district attorney and a former chief of police, announced that his office would investigate the alleged misconduct in the SFPD as well as other local law enforcement agencies.

“In order to ensure our criminal justice system is fair and equitable, my office is conducting an immediate assessment of every prosecution within the past 10 years where these officers were involved,” Gascón said in a statement after the text messages were revealed.

County prosecutors may have to review hundreds of current and past convictions involving the officers to determine if their contribution to such cases was tainted by racial bias.

Jeff Adachi, San Francisco’s public defender, said on Friday that he believes some 1,000 cases involving the officers need to be re-examined.

“The characterization of these hateful statements as innocent banter is dead wrong,” Adachi said. “This casual dehumanization leads to real-life suffering and injustice. It foments a toxic environment in which citizens fear and distrust the police, brutality reigns, and good officers are less effective.”

Adachi also called for the department to undergo 24 hours of training so its members could recognize cultural and racial bias in the field as well as submit to an annual review to screen for such bias. He also recommended officers be required to report colleagues whom they witness invoking racial bias.

Adachi said: “Training and reinforcement is the only way to ensure that racial bias by police does not harm our citizenry.”

San Francisco police chief calls for officers' firing after racist text allegations
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Hectic said:
Remember though guys, as @Americano said, racism can't actually exist inside the police force because it's not possible or something.
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In a different thread I said something along the lines of not all cops are racist. I certainly stick by that, I know some personally and they are anything but racist. Having said that, this thread disgusts me. Clearly there is urgent need of a clean up in the force. Sad to see. Hopefully people start to see and take note of these stories. You'd think that with social media a senator or someone else high up would see these things and make it his or her mission to change things. One can only hope.
 
fecking hell. Sick.

I wonder if a US cop has ever been done for murder when their wasn't video evidence? They seem to get off most of the time even when there is one.
 
That is just unreal. "Suspect" is clearly running away and the officer just fires away. fecking hell.
 
Wowi said:
That is just unreal. "Suspect" is clearly running away and the officer just fires away. fecking hell.
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He can't be arsed to run and chase?

Besides, why do the victim runs away? Wouldn't their odds of being shot or being foul handed increased by folds with running away? The cops can be racially discriminative, there's no way you can find out, but running away will just makes matters worse.
 
FFS, even if the man took the taser and ran away from the cop, there's no justification to shoot him in the back once let alone eight times.

Makes me wonder how often these kind of incidents have been occurring in the US. Fifty years? 100 years?

I was at lunch with three military officers on Monday and they began talking about Ferguson and how stuff like that sickens them. No not the racial profiling and systemic scamming by the county, but how the race card is played and how the government sided with blacks in this scenario. I guess coming from a white man's perspective it's easy to look at it narrow-minded, as all three are white. I don't see it their way but I chose to not counter-argue - it would have been pointless.
 
RIP Walter Scott. What scares me is if there wasn't a video, what would happen to the police office.

Absolutely horrific.
 
It's sad that my immediate reaction is "thank god there was a clear unedited video of what happened"

I wonder what the apologists will say now?
RIP
 
MrMarcello said:
FFS, even if the man took the taser and ran away from the cop, there's no justification to shoot him in the back once let alone eight times.

Makes me wonder how often these kind of incidents have been occurring in the US. Fifty years? 100 years?

I was at lunch with three military officers on Monday and they began talking about Ferguson and how stuff like that sickens them. No not the racial profiling and systemic scamming by the county, but how the race card is played and how the government sided with blacks in this scenario. I guess coming from a white man's perspective it's easy to look at it narrow-minded, as all three are white. I don't see it their way but I chose to not counter-argue - it would have been pointless.
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Or anywhere else in the world too. Surely not just a US issue.
 
That is the worst one yet...but somehow it's even worse than what that video shows. Here is the full video. It shows the officer dropping his taser, firing the shots, running back to where he dropped the taser to pick it up and then place it next to the body, when he calls in he says “Shots fired and the subject is down. He took my Taser,” according to police reports. They also claimed they performed CPR on him, but none of the three officers in the video did that.

Full video below, showing him planting the taser next to the body:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/u...-charged-with-murder-in-black-mans-death.html
 
Hectic said:
That is the worst one yet...but somehow it's even worse than what that video shows. Here is the full video. It shows the officer dropping his taser, firing the shots, running back to where he dropped the taser to pick it up and then place it next to the body, when he calls in he says “Shots fired and the subject is down. He took my Taser,” according to police reports. They also claimed they performed CPR on him, but none of the three officers in the video did that.

Full video below, showing him planting the taser next to the body:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/u...-charged-with-murder-in-black-mans-death.html
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Is it normal for a headline to read "Black man's murder"? Why not just "officer charged with murder" without reference to the victim's skin colour?
 
holyland red said:
Is it normal for a headline to read "Black man's murder"? Why not just "officer charged with murder" without reference to the victim's skin colour?
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I'd imagine a headline relating to skin colour sells more copies/clicks in the current climate.
 
Hectic said:
That is the worst one yet...but somehow it's even worse than what that video shows. Here is the full video. It shows the officer dropping his taser, firing the shots, running back to where he dropped the taser to pick it up and then place it next to the body, when he calls in he says “Shots fired and the subject is down. He took my Taser,” according to police reports. They also claimed they performed CPR on him, but none of the three officers in the video did that.

Full video below, showing him planting the taser next to the body:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/u...-charged-with-murder-in-black-mans-death.html
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It's scary how casual the officer acts throughout the whole situation. It looks like he's done it all before.

There's no "Oh shit what have I done, what can I do?" before he picks up the taser and puts it next to the body... he just picks it up casually, drops it by the body without barely a thought. Even Mackey from the Shield isn't that calm.
 
There's a growing debate questioning the locker room culture of cops in which they coach themselves to use terminology such as "he reached into his car, I thought he was pulling out a gun", or "I feared for my own safety", etc...to legally protect themselves when they kill a suspect or citizen. Its an important debate to be had as removing that protection from cops would probably force them to be far more careful.
 
Hectic said:
That is the worst one yet...but somehow it's even worse than what that video shows. Here is the full video. It shows the officer dropping his taser, firing the shots, running back to where he dropped the taser to pick it up and then place it next to the body, when he calls in he says “Shots fired and the subject is down. He took my Taser,” according to police reports. They also claimed they performed CPR on him, but none of the three officers in the video did that.

Full video below, showing him planting the taser next to the body:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/u...-charged-with-murder-in-black-mans-death.html
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So he planted the taser next to the guys body? Absolutely disgusting
And he did it so casually as well - like he's done it before or learned from someone else who's done it before too.

It reminds me of the case that happened in December where the police officer said the guy had a gun on him so he killed him, but no gun was found on the scene until hours later.
 
He acts like he's just shot a dog.
He doesn't seem to have anger or hatred towards him just complete disregard for his life, like he has no importance at all.

That is scary shit
 
Raoul said:
There's a growing debate questioning the locker room culture of cops in which they coach themselves to use terminology such as "he reached into his car, I thought he was pulling out a gun", or "I feared for my own safety", etc...to legally protect themselves when they kill a suspect or citizen. Its an important debate to be had as removing that protection from cops would probably force them to be far more careful.
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Stick a recodring device on each cop - buttonhole camera or similar and they have to be checked to work before they go on duty
If an officer happens to damage his camera and a suspect falls down the stairs or reached for his tazer etc then obviously a full blown investigation should be launched to check if it is an amazing co-incidence or something more sinister
 
sun_tzu said:
Stick a recodring device on each cop - buttonhole camera or similar and they have to be checked to work before they go on duty
If an officer happens to damage his camera and a suspect falls down the stairs or reached for his tazer etc then obviously a full blown investigation should be launched to check if it is an amazing co-incidence or something more sinister
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A lot of cops now have body cams. This sort of thing will probably prompt there to be a rule that all cops must have them.
 
Raoul said:
A lot of cops now have body cams. This sort of thing will probably prompt there to be a rule that all cops must have them.
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It makes sense as the technology is readily available, inexpensive and in 99.99% of cases the evidence would aid prosecution whilst in 0.01% of cases it could prevent a huge miscarriage of justice.
No doubt you would get a a number of officers quitting saying they don't want to be monitored like that but as the government / establishment line with internet surveillance etc seems to be if you do nothing wrong you have no need to worry the police would not seem to have much of argument against it - plus would you really want somebody running round with a gun who did not want recording evidence that would back up why he had to make potentially a life and death decision.
 
Raoul said:
There's a growing debate questioning the locker room culture of cops in which they coach themselves to use terminology such as "he reached into his car, I thought he was pulling out a gun", or "I feared for my own safety", etc...to legally protect themselves when they kill a suspect or citizen. Its an important debate to be had as removing that protection from cops would probably force them to be far more careful.
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It really is. Look at the statement released before the video was available:

Slager thinks he properly followed all procedures and policies before resorting to deadly force, lawyer David Aylor said in a statement.
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“This is a very tragic event for all of the families,” Aylor said. “I believe once the community hears all the facts of this shooting, they’ll have a better understanding of the circumstances surrounding this investigation.”

Slager “felt threatened and reached for his department-issued firearm and fired his weapon,”
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Even his lawyer removed himself from the case after the facts were established.
 
Hectic said:
It really is. Look at the statement released before the video was available:



Even his lawyer removed himself from the case after the facts were established.
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Wasn't his original lawyer provided by the police department though as originally they thought he had followed procedure? - I would assume they would withdraw the lawyer immediately upon seeing the video and pressing charges?
 
Sky1981 said:
He can't be arsed to run and chase?

Besides, why do the victim runs away? Wouldn't their odds of being shot or being foul handed increased by folds with running away? The cops can be racially discriminative, there's no way you can find out, but running away will just makes matters worse.
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I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that it's partly the victim's fault for running away? I obviously have no idea why he's running away and maybe he shouldn't do that, but shooting should always be the last resort for a cop and when a person is running away from you (even if he had stolen your taser (which he didn't)) he's clearly not a deadly threat to you. The fact that this cop seems to have no issues whatsoever with outright lying about the chain of events and acts so calm is frankly scary to say the least. As someone else said, it makes you wonder how many times he's done something similar in the past without being filmed.


In general, I have a lot of sympathy for US cops. Being cops in a country where firearms are so widespread must be incredibly hard sometimes, because even a routine stop can turn into much more if the suspect is armed - you always have to be alert. But that video is just plain execution for absolutely no reason, and to make matters even worse he tries to stage the scene in order to justify his actions.
 
Sky1981 said:
He can't be arsed to run and chase?

Besides, why do the victim runs away? Wouldn't their odds of being shot or being foul handed increased by folds with running away? The cops can be racially discriminative, there's no way you can find out, but running away will just makes matters worse.
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:lol:
 
And at no point did they see the amateur cameraman (or woman) right by them?

I dunno, I'll have to take a proper look again but that all seemed a little "staged" to me. Too many wtf moments there.
 
Mojo_ said:
And at no point did they see the amateur cameraman (or woman) right by them?

I dunno, I'll have to take a proper look again but that all seemed a little "staged" to me. Too many wtf moments there.
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Staged?
 
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