Gay Marriage

The Black Pearl said:
@The Black Pearl
What rights will the little child of two married people have when it comes to maybe wanting to know who their real daddy and their real mammy are?

Nothing changes. At all.
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If you're on about surrogacy within infertile hetrosexual couples well then I personally am not in favour of that either.

If it's not meant to be well then it's not meant to be. You just have to get on with life.

I have no problem with homosexuals, they were born that way and that's fair enough but it's not natural for them produce children and they should have to understand that.

It's all fairly black and white to me.[/QUOTE]
Adoption carries the same issue of a "real" mam and dad though. The main point though is that these arguments are being thrown about and are irrelevant to the referendum.
 
The Black Pearl said:
@The Black Pearl

If you're on about surrogacy within infertile hetrosexual couples well then I personally am not in favour of that either.

If it's not meant to be well then it's not meant to be. You just have to get on with life.

I have no problem with homosexuals, they were born that way and that's fair enough but it's not natural for them produce children and they should have to understand that.

It's all fairly black and white to me.
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I agree with all of this.

Edit: just curious though, how would your views change when considering the prospect of adoption -- for gay as well as straight couples. It is a bit similar.
 
TBP said:
If you're on about surrogacy within infertile hetrosexual couples well then I personally am not in favour of that either.
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There'd have been no human progress whatsoever if the prevailing attitude was "Well, good or bad, it's all down to fate so let's leave things as they are".
 
I'm not sure I understand some of the issues being raised here. In Ireland, is it currently illegal for 1) a heterosexual couple to have a child via surrogacy? 2) For a homosexual couple? 3) If Yes wins, will the legal position on surrogacy change?
 
naturalized said:
I'm not sure I understand some of the issues being raised here. In Ireland, is it currently illegal for 1) a heterosexual couple to have a child via surrogacy? 2) For a homosexual couple? 3) If Yes wins, will the legal position on surrogacy change?
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1) no
2) no
3) no
 
To clarify for anyone out of Ireland. This referendum is about changing the definition of the word marriage in the constitution.
naturalized said:
Then... what's the problem?
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No one knows.
 
I'm sure we all guessed that was a Mail story even before reading the link. :D Besides, I'm more interested in their reporting of the Peppa Pig reign of terror.
 
:lol:
 
Jippy said:
The Guardian has been avidly covering too. They seem to have turned the comment function off though. The DM's comment section was all too predictable.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...liver-verdict-on-bert-and-ernie-gay-cake-case
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This one was good but got downvoted of course:

Homosexuality is unnatural!! It says so in a book where a snake can talk, someone comes back from the dead, this guy walks on water and a virgin has a baby! I am not gay but I do think that everyone has a right to find love wherever it may be.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cake-GUILTY-discrimination.html#ixzz3aatf3BGH
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Shamwow said:
This one was good but got downvoted of course:
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:lol:That is pretty good. Can't find it now, but there was one about the fact you have to swear on the bible in court, but he is getting done for following its teachings.

This guy is angry.
Luke, Portsmouth, about an hour ago

Why didn't they just say that they checked and the copyright violation means that they can't fulfil the order? It's not a lie, Jim Henson's Workshop and Sesame Street have gone on the record to state that Bert and Ernie are effectively asexual and are not homesexual, hetrosexual or anything - they're just exceedingly good friends - a pox on the gay rights lobby for raping the memories of childhood.
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Gay, biased judge apparently.
WhoCares, Reading, United Kingdom, about an hour ago

Surely it¿s Brand infringement to use Burt and Erne on a Cake no matter what is added in writing next to it. How did their lawyers lose that case. A gay judge?
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Tom M, Manchester, about an hour ago

It would be Karma if the producers of Sesame Street cordially invitied Mr Lee and his partner into a courtroom to answer a few simple questions on the subject of copyright, just to see that smug grin taken off the activists face.
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PC GONE MAD.
paddynme, yorkshire, about an hour ago

PC gone mad, are we not allowed to have our own opinions now? i am fed up of this nonsense and being told what I can and can't say, what happened to free speech? Each to their own, and its a disgrace this got this far!
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adexkola said:
Going by a dictionary definition, the word homophobia is thrown around too lightly.
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It's a bit like that Louis CK skit on racism (see Louis CK) thread. A lot of people of a certain age are a little bit racist. A lot of them are also a little bit homophobic. No big deal in either scenario, so long as they recognise their own prejudices and don't allow them impact on anybody else. Which comes back to the point I made earlier. It's fine being a bit uncomfortable with the idea of gay people getting married. To each their own. Where they cross the line is acting on that prejudice to do something which will proactively prevent equal rights. Getting off their arse, walking to a polling station and voting no. Just don't bother. Stay at home. Nobody is judging them. If the idea of gay marriage weirds them out, just stay out of it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's a bit like that Louis CK skit on racism (see Louis CK) thread. A lot of people of a certain age are a little bit racist. A lot of them are also a little bit homophobic. No big deal in either scenario, so long as they recognise their own prejudices and don't allow them impact on anybody else. Which comes back to the point I made earlier. It's fine being a bit uncomfortable with the idea of gay people getting married. To each their own. Where they cross the line is acting on that prejudice to do something which will proactively prevent equal rights. Getting off their arse, walking to a polling station and voting no. Just don't bother. Stay at home. Nobody is judging them. If the idea of gay marriage weirds them out, just stay out of it.
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Not a lot of people think like that though - they see something they don't like and they can do something about it, so they will go and vote no.
 
RobinLFC said:
Not a lot of people think like that though - they see something they don't like and they can do something about it, so they will go and vote no.
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That's crossing the line, though. You* might not like the idea of gay marriage but a lot of people do. Specifically the people who would like to get married. Stopping them from doing that goes beyond a bit of harmless prejudice into something a bit less forgivable. IMHO.



*Not you, personally, obviously!
 
I agree with whichever side is arguing that, yes, marriage is pretty gay.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's a bit like that Louis CK skit on racism (see Louis CK) thread. A lot of people of a certain age are a little bit racist. A lot of them are also a little bit homophobic. No big deal in either scenario, so long as they recognise their own prejudices and don't allow them impact on anybody else. Which comes back to the point I made earlier. It's fine being a bit uncomfortable with the idea of gay people getting married. To each their own. Where they cross the line is acting on that prejudice to do something which will proactively prevent equal rights. Getting off their arse, walking to a polling station and voting no. Just don't bother. Stay at home. Nobody is judging them. If the idea of gay marriage weirds them out, just stay out of it.
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I agree.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's crossing the line, though. You* might not like the idea of gay marriage but a lot of people do. Specifically the people who would like to get married. Stopping them from doing that goes beyond a bit of harmless prejudice into something a bit less forgivable. IMHO.



*Not you, personally, obviously!
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Couldn't agree more.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's a bit like that Louis CK skit on racism (see Louis CK) thread. A lot of people of a certain age are a little bit racist. A lot of them are also a little bit homophobic. No big deal in either scenario, so long as they recognise their own prejudices and don't allow them impact on anybody else. Which comes back to the point I made earlier. It's fine being a bit uncomfortable with the idea of gay people getting married. To each their own. Where they cross the line is acting on that prejudice to do something which will proactively prevent equal rights. Getting off their arse, walking to a polling station and voting no. Just don't bother. Stay at home. Nobody is judging them. If the idea of gay marriage weirds them out, just stay out of it.
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Think everyone is - including plenty of racial minorities having negative views about their own race and sexual minorities their sexuality. No one yet has grown up in a society without prejudice with regards to race and sexuality (don't see how that'll ever happen) and you can't be immune to your upbringing. The best you can do is be aware that crass assumptions about race, sexuality, and indeed gender, are unwise, and challenge them when you catch yourself making them, be they positive or negative.

Sorry, I'm on a break from writing a social science/psychology essay - it's hard to get yourself out of the mode of GCSE level hypothesising...
 
The Black Pearl said:
@The Black Pearl
If you're on about surrogacy within infertile hetrosexual couples well then I personally am not in favour of that either.

If it's not meant to be well then it's not meant to be. You just have to get on with life.

I have no problem with homosexuals, they were born that way and that's fair enough but it's not natural for them produce children and they should have to understand that.

It's all fairly black and white to me.
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If you stand by that ideology, never go to the doctors when you're ill. It's not natural for us to have survived smallpox, or the common cold either.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Think everyone is - including plenty of racial minorities having negative views about their own race and sexual minorities their sexuality. No one yet has grown up in a society without prejudice with regards to race and sexuality (don't see how that'll ever happen) and you can't be immune to your upbringing. The best you can do is be aware that crass assumptions about race, sexuality, and indeed gender, are unwise, and challenge them when you catch yourself making them, be they positive or negative.

Sorry, I'm on a break from writing a social science/psychology essay - it's hard to get yourself out of the mode of GCSE level hypothesising...
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Yeah. That's all true. Although I'd imagine there are degrees of racism/homophobia and that - in general - people of a certain age might have to work harder to damp down inner prejudice than you uber-liberal kids. Age as well as upbringing being the two biggest factors.

I had one black kid in my class at school, only a handful in my class at university and lived in a generally very white area (which would apply to almost all Irish people my age). When I moved to a part of London which was full of black people it took me a while to stop doing the sort of internal routines that Louis CK refers to in his bit in that other thread.
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah. That's all true. Although I'd imagine there are degrees of racism/homophobia and that - in general - people of a certain age might have to work harder to damp down inner prejudice than you uber-liberal kids. Age as well as upbringing being the two biggest factors.

I had one black kid in my class at school, only a handful in my class at university and lived in a generally very white area. When I moved to a part of London which was full of black people it took me a while to stop doing the sort of internal routines that Louis CK refers to in his bit in that other thread.
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Same here. The Jewish kid, African kid, and jehovah's witness kid at my school had to sit out assembly in another room. We had one black family in my town and they suffered all kinds of abuse. Jim Davidson did the Chalky routine and the Black & White Minstrel Show was still running.

Different times.
 
Grinner said:
Same here. The Jewish kid, African kid, and jehovah's witness kid at my school had to sit out assembly in another room. We had one black family in my town and they suffered all kinds of abuse. Jim Davidson did the Chalky routine and the Black & White Minstrel Show was still running.

Different times.
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That's exactly what Louis Ck is getting at. You're a little bit racist because you grew up in a place/era were racism wasn't frowned on the way it is today. But you'd never actually do or saying anything racist because you're not a complete dickhead.

We're talking about racism now, when the thread is about gay marriage. Swap homophobic for racist and the same stuff applies.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's exactly what Louis Ck is getting at. You're a little bit racist because you grew up in a place/era were racism wasn't frowned on the way it is today. But you'd never actually do or saying anything racist because you're not a complete dickhead.

We're talking about racism now, when the thread is about gay marriage. Swap homophobic for racist and the same stuff applies.
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Gays got ridiculed as bad as other races in that time too. Mr. Humphries, Larry Grayson etc.
 
Grinner said:
Gays got ridiculed as bad as other races in that time too. Mr. Humphries, Larry Grayson etc.
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For sure. Not one single kid in my school came out while they were there (a bunch of them did after they left). Which is shocking really. The progress that's been made in the relatively recent past is great to see.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
For sure. Not one single kid in my school came out while they were there (a bunch of them did after they left). Which is shocking really. The progress that's been made in the relatively recent past is great to see.
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I find it astonishing how quickly that happened. I'm 25 - when I was 7-8 homosexuality was still seen as one of the worst things a person could admit to. By the time I was 14, me being openly bisexual at my school generally led to nothing worse than a slight excess of curious questions.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I find it astonishing how quickly that happened. I'm 25 - when I was 7-8 homosexuality was still seen as one of the worst things a person could admit to. By the time I was 14, me being openly bisexual at my school generally led to nothing worse than a slight excess of curious questions.
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Very eloquently put. Crikey, no-one did in my school, which was one of the biggest comprehensives in the country. Saying that one lass did on the last day of sixth form, wearing a out and proud T-shirt or something.
We also only had one black kid and a handful of Asians in a headcount of nearly 2,000.

@Pogue Mahone Know what you mean about coming to London for the first time. My brother lived in Streatham Common at the time, which was an eye-opener, given I'd only ever seen a very small number of black people in 'real life' before.
 
Mockney said:
If you stand by that ideology, never go to the doctors when you're ill. It's not natural for us to have survived smallpox, or the common cold either.
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Whats pricking around with the manufacturing of human life just so that two men can rear a child got to do with smallpox or the common cold?

I've lost count of the amount doctors and consultants that I've been too on both sides of the Irish Sea and I have had to learn to accept things about life that I think homosexuals should as well.
 
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