Dictating the play is perhaps the wrong description, but I do think he's the type of player who can be heavily influential as our main creative outlet from behind the striker. He's struggled to display that here, but his assist figures at Chelsea were superb. He's not a Silva-type player for dictating the game, but he is a very technically proficient player who has often good output too.
Juan Mata - Shall he be our #10?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Dictating the play is perhaps the wrong description, but I do think he's the type of player who can be heavily influential as our main creative outlet from behind the striker. He's struggled to display that here, but his assist figures at Chelsea were superb. He's not a Silva-type player for dictating the game, but he is a very technically proficient player who has often good output too.
Apart from winning the champions league and 2 player of the year awards in that position, right ?
Bizarre post.
With LVG in charge there is probably a higher chance of Mata playing LCB than as a no. 10.
Also to those saying mata isn't a creative force and more of second striker who can drag players in the box and free up space for the striker.
That's exactly the type of player LVG wants as his number ten. Why do you think depay is playing there now ? For creativity ? No.
That's exactly the type of player LVG wants as his number ten. Why do you think depay is playing there now ? For creativity ? No.
I would like to see him given a chance there, but based on this summer I'm going to guess he and Pedro will get the most minutes on the wings (a bit of speculation involved, I know...).
Flank him with two forwards like Depay and Pedro and he'll get a bucket load of assists for us.
He's a good goalscorer certainly but I don't he's much of a creator in the current setup. It's too slow for him to do much when he gets the ball and as already mentioned another issue is the positions he takes up are too advanced.
At United. Should go without saying really.
Haven't you heard? He was only that good because they were so shit. Or something.
Also, as a caveat, he would need Schneiderlin behind him to shore up midfield if this were the case. I don't think a Carrick/Bastian pairing would be mobile enough against a good opponent with Mata as the #10.
Should our best #10 play as a #10? Yes.
He went missing a lot when playing as a number 10 for us.Would rather play Januzaj/Pereira there and it's not even because they're our youngsters.His performance last season only geared up after he was shifted to the right.
I honestly believe that LVG would prefer Herrera there as he offers defensive contribution. Not sure about Depay though.
Should it? If we're talking about him as a #10 then referring to the period where he was one of the league's best players while playing as a #10 seems just as relevant as the much briefer period where he played as a #10 for us in a totally dysfunctional team.
Succinct.
I know it's unlikely but I'd love to see this given a go:
Depay-----------Rooney-----------Pedro
-----------Mata----------Herrera--------
---------------Schneiderlin--------------
Depay-----------Rooney-----------Pedro
-----------Mata----------Herrera--------
---------------Schneiderlin--------------
He was also Chelsea's player of the year as a right winger. Why should we ignore that then?
Besides, his Chelsea form was more than 2 years ago. So, I'd consider his performances for United a lot more relevant especially given the system he played under Di Matteo is a world away from what LVG plays. It's not even worth comparing.
Moving a player who was dropped as a #10 and then successfully played as a winger to great effect back to the #10 role makes absolutely no sense. Especially as he's displayed very little creativity in his time at United.
His best season at Chelsea was playing in the middle behind Drogba, iirc. AM or SS is his best position imo.
Yep, it's not a crazy concept. Same could be said of Bale at Tottenham.
Chelsea had no balance or discipline. No manager during that poor patch was able to get a consistent system going. The three behind the striker were allowed way too much freedom. But their league showings were terrible.
It was also the furthest thing from the slow ultra-possession football here at United currently.
Probably explains why - despite apparently being the best player in the league over a couple of years - he was still just an impact sub for Spsin, behind Silva and Cazorla in the pecking order.
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I thought his work from the center at Chelsea was really good. It was his best season when he played there. That and when he was on the left.
He'll always go missing in a central role (especially in a slow, possession-based team). He has weaknesses that ensure it.
He didn't play with Drogba and he was also Chelsea PotY from the right. He's played almost his entire career from wide areas. Not sure what the problem is.
Wish we could do that but it's a bit too open for the prem imo. Would be pretty fun to see though, could be a "we don't care how many you score, we're going to score more" style of play
wtf are you talking about they won the champions league in 2013 with mata playing as their no.10
Another bizarre post.
mata isn't a player that should never be criticised, he's not without flaws and I can understand why LVG wants to keep him on the right after last year. However, you're taking it to silly places if you say mata's success as chelsea came in part because the team around him were poor and made him look better.
Player of the year, twice.
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It's worth looking at again now that we're able to field 2 strong holding midfielders behind him.
Wish we could do that but it's a bit too open for the prem imo. Would be pretty fun to see though, could be a "we don't care how many you score, we're going to score more" style of play
Schneiderlin would though offer great protection for the back four, arguably better than Carrick does, against the teams that are buggers to break down, West Brom, Southampton etc, it could just break the door open whilst not leaving us stupidly exposed at the back.
We're seriously using that Chelsea Champions league fluke as an argument? Really? I'd much rather use the piss-poor league showings.
Its also interesting how Mata goes from Chelsea's most influential player in the league to about fifth or six most influential in the Champions league, and they do poorly in the league, but win the Cup.
Yes, Mata sucess at Chelsea was, in part, down to the fact Chelsea's players spent half the league season in gung-ho, tactic-free mode.
Hopefully with a solid central midfield behind him now will give him more freedom to do damage. I don't think Van Gaal is a Mata's biggest fan but I think he realizes his value to the team until he can possibly bring in more signings...He's definitely a Top 4 player but I'm not sure he is a championship winning level player.....Mata on his day, such as against Liverpool is a sight to behold...But I still feel he hasn't shown enough on a consistent basis to prove he is dynamic enough to have a massive long term future in the first XI here but maybe he can find more consistency this season
No. He's not creative enough.
True enough for teams that sit back, probably not an option against your bigger teams that will actually attack. Would be a lot of fun to watch.
Probably the majority of games over the first 1/3rd of the season, which is why he was then benched for 2 months before being shifted out wide.
So the fact that the United team was dysfunctional doesn't count at all? Last year we had static strikers, played a diamond/3-5-2 when he played as a #10 and we did not have an adequate midfield behind him. Now we have signed Depay, have sorted the midfield, moved Rooney (who is a lot more mobile than Falcao and RVP) and are on the verge of signing Pedro. The circumstances are completely different to those he 'failed' under. I don't see why we shouldn't give him a chance there again. Rooney last played as a striker three years ago, we have moved him back up top, why shouldn't what Mata achieved two years ago not count when the same has counted for Rooney?
I would love to see him being used as a #10 but unfortunately in LVG's system we wont play with an out and out #10 since he prefers three central midfielders with one pushing forward when we attack.
yes - LvG won't play him there.
I've always been of the opinion that mata needs a certain amount of protecting. The midfield he played ahead of at Chelsea was strong, powerful and dominant. At United hes not had the support really. I think any number 10 needs players behind him who can link up well with him. I think this could be a great season for Mata if he plays number 10 with the midfield we now have.
But Mata didn't have this problem under Moyes, it could be Van Gaal's instructions to be more like a second striker.
I'd rather see him on the wing for now just because I want Herrera to be our third midfielder. I think he offers a lot on the wing and combines particularly well with Herrera so ideally for me they both would start, with Depay taking the left wing role.
Unless we're using a 2-man forward line, or one of the '3' in a 4-3-3 tucked in, I think his attributes can't actually be exploited through the middle because he's not the type who's going to pull all the strings, play endless intricate 1-2's and balls to work space for himself or others, but he is the type who is absolutely lethal following in on a dangerous #9 who occupies two men by himself and allows Mata's natural cunning movement and opportunism to flourish. He was absolutely flawless at that for Chelsea, but we're a different team altogether and our #9 is not going to occupy two CB's by himself - Mata would have to do a lot more work in that role for us to make equivalent chances to what he got at Chelsea, and he's not got the game or the physical attributes for that.
A forward like Rooney brings too much attention to Mata to be the creative hub unless the wide-forwards are devastating (as you and a number of people have said). I can't see him working through the middle for us in this particular team. Mata needs a forward who will run the channels or stretch the field all game, or one who can easily do battle with both opposing centrebacks to really flourish.
This too.
All of the bolded is bang on, for me.
Depay plays there for his explosiveness, dribbling and overall dynamism. A player like Depay will have opposing teams in fits trying to swarm him before he gets the ball out of his feet and goes on an unpredictable and problematic run right at the heart of their team. Mata can't do any of those things, and in the build up, there's a lot more time to stop him or simply brush him off the ball. Depay is going to win a lot of free kicks for us through the middle, because it'll take a proper blunt force to knock him off the ball.
I don't think he's the solution to the #10 position for us, but the reason why he'll be played there is obvious and could be huge for us if it comes off as he will free space for Rooney and our wide forwards in a way Mata will never be able to do.
I don't remember that midfield being particularly strong, powerful or dominant. Mikel, Ramires, Lampard, and probably someone I'm forgetting.
They had their dominant games here and there, but they were largely mediocre in the league, and in that Champions league run, they spent half of it being anything but dominant.
I agree that Mata needs protecting, but that comes via playing style. A more direct, counter-attacking system that sees the ball moved forward quickly from defence provides him protection. This is brcausevit creates fewer direct contact situations when he receives the ball.There's space to run into, and there aren't men right on his shoulder. He'll receive the ball just over the half way line, in a three on three situation, for example. He's built up steam and momentum.
Whereas in a slower, possession-based system, he's constantly without space, and he struggles with the direct contact and harrying in that congested midfield. He cant build momentum, and is weak.
The two guys sitting behind him have little to do with that.
Yeah you're probably right. Who did they have? I dtill think Mata is our best option if we play to his strengths though.