Understand the sentiment but not everyone is equipped to deal with that. To take it to a weird extreme, you could show a video of one of the many violent rapes committed in 'the jungle' in Calais. Would you agree with that?
Battlefield Calais: 'the swarm'
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-attitude-to-refugees-what-will-10482757.html
Probably the same pics as the ones in the Washington Post.
But I barely kept it together when I saw these - it's only 1 child and it's not like there was anything externally gruesome about it - and we've all seen so much worse.
Regardless - I felt so useless/impotent.
I do urge everyone to have a look - not out of moral righteousness or some kind of sick voyerism, but to see how tragic things are at an individual, human level.
Probably the same pics as the ones in the Washington Post.
But I barely kept it together when I saw these - it's only 1 child and it's not like there was anything externally gruesome about it - and we've all seen so much worse.
Regardless - I felt so useless/impotent.
I do urge everyone to have a look - not out of moral righteousness or some kind of sick voyerism, but to see how tragic things are at an individual, human level.
I think it speaks volumes that many of tomorrow's paper's carry these awful images on their front covers, including the likes of the Sun.
The media are disgusting. They will stop at nothing to sell a paper.
Most of the same media has spent the past couple of months equating offering shelter to refugees fleeing war torn nations with immigration.
Whipping the average person into a frenzy and scaring the political establishment from doing ANYTHING or saying ANYTHING humane.
Now the same media pretends to be some kind of moral authority and wants to berate the politicians for not acting???
It would be truly hilarious if the issue wasn't one of life and death.
How do you think the media works? It plays to popular opinion. Yes, the left and right will report stories with their own slant, based on their agenda, but you get moments that transcend that. This is one of them. The DM has been quite vitriolic about us 'losing control of our borders' etc...but they are not stupid. Even the most flint-hearted DM reader will be saddened by that image (I cynically think, and forgive me for this, that it helps that the poor tot is very fair-skinned).
The DM or its ilk cannot go in hard against the 'swarm' on the back of that image. Of course they have to play on the human tragedy- they won't be welcoming refugees over here en masse, the easier route for them is to gun for Cameron for not wiping out Isis or renegotiating EU border controls, like he could have unilaterally, in reality.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-didnt-balls-stop-6349213
I've said before on here, we get the media we want and deserve. People moan about the side-bar of shame on the DM, for exemple but it has been one factor behind it becoming the biggest news website in the world. I can't moan, I have the highest post count in the DM thread, but I like to point out their shit, and tbf @SteveJ is second, and he's more of a champagne socialist.
Horrible. How do people think we shouldn't aid the refugees when they see whats going on in the news. We need to take a leaf out of Germany's book who have handled this brilliantly.
Well, the rape thing is a bit more gratuitous and I can see why people wouldn't want that splashed every where as it is humiliating for the victim and for some really weird people, they get a kick out of it or it's a fetish. With what we're seeing in particular, it's a problem on our doorstep that we're putting to the back of our minds. It's a different scenario, and I think the lack of visibility has led to apathy, or even disdain by most of us. I mean, people are dying just to live. If that isn't as sad as it sounds, then pictures like the above should make us do something. Collectively, we can make a difference, and I'm not saying let's go out and fight or anything, but we need to do something. Considering the lurkers on here, and the amount of people who are in difference positions of power (like yourself!) I'm sure it might stir something in one of us to actually do something. Like I mentioned, maybe it'll amount to a charity donation, or a FB post about it, or attending this, even though they seem like small gestures it's better than nothing or turning a blind eye to it. It's better that than people complaining about them ruining their holiday or something.
And are calling on others to take more. It's tough for them though, they've not had the colonial past that we had, nor has Sweden, which gets shedloads of migrants or refugees (forgive me lumping them together). Britain brought in loads of South Asians as workers post-war and France has a longer history of immigration with its colonial past. These countries are not used to it.
Who was it that said we should re-colonise Africa?
Here's a petition, https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105991
Like I said, it's better than nothing, and who knows if our 1% can make something happen.
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Like I said, it's better than nothing, and who knows if our 1% can make something happen.
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Good idea, signed.
Ffs, so I should agree to a three sentence argument. Come on mate, that's bollocks. I may or may not agree with the cause, but am not sure this shit is helpful really.
Net migration was 318,00 last year apparently http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/latest-immigration-statistics
That's the equivalent of two new Blackpools (spurious argument in itself against it http://www.citymayors.com/gratis/uk_topcities.html )
Where the feck are we going to put all these people?!
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I'm not sure that petition actually is better than nothing.
Is it? The US isn't queueing up to take in a load of the refugees from the countries we in part jointly fecked up. You're more bothered about building a new Berlin wall to keep the swarthy southerners out. We don't have much space in the UK- my garden is only around 20 square foot and that's considered a luxury in W14 ffs!
Sorry eboo, I may have totally misread your post there. Tis late and I've been up since 6:50- feck being short-staffed.
There's still time to delete your posts before anyone notices.
Think I missed that boat. World opinion can turn on a sixpence though. The sad truth is that if that body had been a plump black guy rather than a pale toddler, no-one would probably have given a shit.
Thanks feck! I think that the bad analogies have already sailed tbf. Go and kill and kill some cats!
Thanks feck! I think that the bad analogies have already sailed tbf. Go and kill and kill some cats!
Please, make it stop!
This is a burn the ships moment here Dwayne, we just have to push forward and not look back.
It's Lord Jim all over again.
With 100k signatures, it'll get to parliament. I agree with you somewhat, we can't just let them all in willy nilly, but a compromise can be reached. And this compromise can only be reached if enough voices are heard and there's enough noise made by people like us. The boy who drowned is a symbol of this tragedy, and it's fecking diabolical it's allowed to happen. Germany has done a lot more than us to help, in fact, we haven't done much at all. Whether it's a petition, a march, a FB post or even raising awareness here - you never know who's reading, it's incumbent on us to do something.
I admire your sentiments but just can't help feeling irritated by the grief porn on social media that those images have kicked off. I'm not even sure why it's so annoying. I'm sure every "RIP" is well intentioned but there's something about people indulging in very public displays of emotion about distant tragedy via the medium of Facebook that jars, horribly.
People just don't know how to react to such horror. Understandable really, the images are shocking.
The countries of the EU, and Turkey really considering the role they play in the refugees passing through, need to get together and figure something out to help with this mess. I'd happily see these refugees welcomed here but we need to do something with the system and housing to be able to do that. I live in Bristol and there is barely enough housing and jobs to go around for the people who already live here, however much we want to help.
We can't just shoehorn these people anywhere into the country, we need to think it through properly and actually come up with a system for resettling refugees that actually works for our country and for them. There's surely no point just sending them off into cities where there are barely any opportunities to make a decent living, that only makes it harder for them and the people that already live there.
It's times like this I wish I didn't know how many empty houses were in the cotswolds and central London, mostly owned by Russians and Arabs and our own super rich. My clients like that will often own 3 huge houses in Chelsea and Kensington alone. It's such a waste when space in London is at such a premium.
We can't just shoehorn these people anywhere into the country, we need to think it through properly and actually come up with a system for resettling refugees that actually works for our country and for them. There's surely no point just sending them off into cities where there are barely any opportunities to make a decent living, that only makes it harder for them and the people that already live there.
It's times like this I wish I didn't know how many empty houses were in the cotswolds and central London, mostly owned by Russians and Arabs and our own super rich. My clients like that will often own 3 huge houses in Chelsea and Kensington alone. It's such a waste when space in London is at such a premium.
I'm not sure how to react myself but immediately showing them to all my friends, interspersed with pictures of cats and hilarious prank videos of the day would be low down the list.
How many millions of refugees could Europe possibly accommodate? How many will try getting there, especially if the doors open?
In other words, would allowing more people in legally really change what we're seeing now?
In other words, would allowing more people in legally really change what we're seeing now?
Europe and North America accepted something over 2 million refugees over the course of the Indochina wars of the 70s I believe. If there was a will then something could surely be done.
Not to change the nature of this discussion, but I think it's fairly clear that a major reason for the difference this time round is that most of these refugees are Muslim. Some countries are more honest about this than others, e.g. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...yrian-refugees-but-they-have-to-be-christian/
Not to change the nature of this discussion, but I think it's fairly clear that a major reason for the difference this time round is that most of these refugees are Muslim. Some countries are more honest about this than others, e.g. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...yrian-refugees-but-they-have-to-be-christian/
If someone from Croatian goverment has said anything similar to that I think we would have been thrown out of EU. And I'm not kidding.
Czech and Hungarian authorities are not much better it seems.
On the other hand they are right in the sense they didn't have anything with the mess in Syria or in Iraq.
This issue is integral to this discussion. I'm sure Eastern European politicians openly admit what many in more Western parts feel, but cannot express publically.
I also imagine many of the people publicaly calling for refugees to be taken in also really mean they are happy for refugees to be taken in, so long as it's not on their street.
From Jippy's favourite rag and linking back to how uncomfortable I feel about images of dead children used to score points on social media, check this shit out:
http://dailym.ai/1LWJ1bS
http://dailym.ai/1LWJ1bS
It's a bit absurd that theres any question around whether we help them or not.
If we in the UK are so constrained that we can't take them in then we should be financially supporting the countries who can. How much is Tony Blair worth these days? Sure his assets could build a few homes.
If we in the UK are so constrained that we can't take them in then we should be financially supporting the countries who can. How much is Tony Blair worth these days? Sure his assets could build a few homes.
Another issue is that the wealthiest states of the Arab world in the Gulf don't appear to accept ANY refugees from these conflicts, e.g. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34132308
A cartoon from that article, the caption reads "Why don't you let them in, you discourteous people?!":
A cartoon from that article, the caption reads "Why don't you let them in, you discourteous people?!":
That's a strong argument used here, where illegal immigrants end up in mass numbers in already impoverished suburbs. Typically, those who argue for assimilation do not live there.
The only way to help these people in a sustainable way is back in their home countries. Creating safe zones militarily is more viable than handling millions of refugees in Europe.
I completely agree, I despair at our selfish behaviours. Of course we need to look for long term resolutions but we have people dying and suffering now, today.
I think you're right. Seems like the best option, by far.
This seems like a very good idea. Is this actually being discussed? I'd be more than happy to see a large budget set aside for this purpose