I think you're right. Seems like the best option, by far.
This seems like a very good idea
This must rank as the highlight of my CE contribution...
Even if this is carried out, it would address part of the problem and at a heavy price. I think we will find that the majority of immigrants do not face any danger to their lives, hence safe zones do not address their motives. They are after better living standards. Where people do flee war zones, creating safety zones will involve loss of lives to the military forces involved, with the odd beheadings to boot.
I wrote quite a long response to your original reply but got so aggrieved I deleted. It summed up that I agree but the politicians won't do it and they'd be a lot of difficult issues with it
The peace in the middle east goal hasn't got any closer in decades of effort and is arguably worse. I just hope humanity is shown in the short term to deal with the refugees effected now whilst a long term plan of action is put together
Im a little confused by it all too Seems to be a few different countries they are fleeing from at the same timeThis may sound like a weird question but it is a genuine one.
Are the people at Calais not different to Syrian refugees we are seeing fleeing into Turkey, Greece, Macedonia and now Budapest?
In other words, do we not need to make a distinction between 'Migrants' and 'Refugees'? Purely going on the picture from Calais, are the majority there not from Africa rather than Syria?
I only reason I ask is I see this thread addressing the pictures from Turkey yesterday. It strikes me this is a very different event than the Calais event.
Im a little confused by it all too Seems to be a few different countries they are fleeing from at the same time
With all due respect, there are countless countries on the way from Eritrea to the UK or Sweden. What you get there are not people running for their lives. I doubt ME refugees are persecuted in Greece and Hungary either, for that matter.
This is about people seeking better life.
I thought the Syrian refugees are literally seeking refuge from ISIS. And Eritreans are a combination of economic migrants and refugees seeking refuge from the war in their country.
I think you are over simplifying things to say this is just about 'people seeking a better life'.
I thought the Syrian refugees are literally seeking refuge from ISIS. And Eritreans are a combination of economic migrants and refugees seeking refuge from the war in their country.
I think you are over simplifying things to say this is just about 'people seeking a better life'.
we may be looking at something akin to a military draft in Europe. I really wouldn't rule out an EU wide draft at some point in the coming years.
We all are, writing a couple of paragraphs on mass migration on an historic scale.
However, Syrians are safe from ISIS in Turkey, Greece, Hungary, Macedonia and Serbia yet their destination is Germany or Sweden. Eritreans running away from compulsory military service cross half of Africa and Southern Europe before you see them on the news across the channel.
As far as I know the wars between Eritrea and Ethiopia have been cold for over a decade. What people there are fleeing from is a government ranked only slightly less repressive than North Korea.
It won't come to that. The wars in Iraq, Syria and likely Libya will probably extend into the next decade, but before that ever becomes necessary, Europeans will have built longer, higher walls, and have voted into power many of the so-called 'anti-immigration' parties which are currently gaining popularity across the continent.
The whole thing is a mess. A human tragedy. I can see a situation where the only way this crisis will be reversed is through military intervention in Syria, Eritrea, Lybia and so on. But for that to happen we may be looking at something akin to a military draft in Europe. I really wouldn't rule out an EU wide draft at some point in the coming years.
Those continuing across into Germany and Sweden are generally doing so because they have family members or friends their. Can you blame them moving within Europe once they reach it? Lets not forget there are 1m Syrians refugees in Lebanon. The reality is Europe is only beginning to get a taste of the Syrian REFUGEE crisis. You've kind of made my point for me. Its too simple to paint all of this 'migrants' with the same brush. Some are economic migrants, some are refugees and no doubt some are 'chancers'! My original post asked a genuine question and I think your response illustrates what I was getting at. People are confusing the different issues whether its Calais, Greece, Italy, Germany, Budapest or the tragedy in the Med all of these individual human stories are different. My reading of this crisis and this historic mass movement of people is that there is one common denominator driving the whole thing: failed states. And as I said in an earlier post, the West is going to have to intervene militarily if it wants to reverse this movement of people. Its a hugely complex topic, I don't agree with you that is simply about 'people looking for a better life'. It it hadn't been for the failure of their home nation the vast vast majority of these people wouldn't be on the move.
Do you think the anti-immigration parties will really come into power? I'm not so sure. I think people's reaction to the human side of the crisis may prevent that. Its hard to know, people are scared of immigration too so maybe that will happen.
I don't think we disagree much. When one lives in a failed state earning $2 a day he will seek better life in countries where young football players are transferred for sums equivalent to his failed state's annual health budget.
I think you will find increased support for both extremes with centrist / populist parties scrambling around for a coherent message that does not annoy either extreme view too much.. Ideally I'd say a populist leader galvanising opinion behind a balanced view but I don't think that's realistic... Its going to be about flip flopping and clinging to powerDo you think the anti-immigration parties will really come into power? I'm not so sure. I think people's reaction to the human side of the crisis may prevent that. Its hard to know, people are scared of immigration too so maybe that will happen.
This is true. But I guess where we might disagree is on Syria. It wasn't a failed state until recently. I don't think you can compare Syrian refugees with migrants from Eritrea where the state failed ten years ago or more!
And I don't make a simple comparison. Having said that, thee final destination of Syrian refugees kind of strengthens my point. Let them in and your country will be the destination for their family members back home, whether their lives are in danger or not. They could easily settle in a range of countries if it's safety they are after.
The Brexit vote will be gaining ground from all this, mainly because the EU has shown itself to be such a shambles. Asylum seekers should be processed in the country they arrive in but as none of the countries want them so they haven't bothered processing them, which has led to the mess we're seeing today.It all makes the Brexit vote a lot more interesting if the EU decides that the UK must take a quota of refugees by law.
It should be the perfect time to renegotiate though...It all makes the Brexit vote a lot more interesting if the EU decides that the UK must take a quota of refugees by law.
They travel through to Germany and Britain etc for a number of reasons. Some do have family links, some favour the UK because of the language, the UK and Germany have relatively low unemployment and some will chose the UK for the benefits no doubt. The people of the more powerful European nations are likely to be more accepting as well due to larger existing immigrant communities.
Countries like Italy and Greece are not playing by the rules though, they are supposed to process the migrants but choose to just let them go, better as the problem of other European countries.
You are right though in saying that it isn't simply a choice determined by being away from ISIS or a war zone. They want to hit the best places to live they can. Seems like human nature to do so though.
Net migration was 300,000Didn't the UK allow in more than 300,000 migrants last year?
Net migration was 300,000
Gross about 600k with around 300k leaving
The net 300k includes refugees asylum seekers, legal non eu immigrants eg workers spouses etc who meet immigration criteria and eu nationals who have free movement
Spot on. I'm liberal as feck when it comes to marraige rights, you name it. But encouraging hundreds of thousands to spill into countries across Europe, many of whom are in economic trouble as well isn't healthy. The far left approach of "let them all in!" is nonsense. Immigration needs to be handled in a proper fashion, you need to bed these people in, otherwise you'll have a divided nation where different demographics don't mix.The sad truth is that no matter how devastating images like we saw today are, Europe cannot import the ME and Africa to its own back yard.
It should be the perfect time to renegotiate though...
You want help with refugees
We want restrictions on economic migration and access to benefits
If you can present a compromise that clearly differentiates the two and incorporates some compromises around benefits and nhs access or how long eu nationals have to find work they should be able to win the vote I think
Edit... Just to say if he keeps on using words like swarm and not negotiate taking sufficient refugees he won't get any help on internal eu migration and may even have to campaign for an out (perhaps secretly they don't think that's the worst possible outcome)
Asylum seekers 31,000 in 2014Any estimates of illegal immigration/asylum seekers?
That's the problem. No serious european politician is addressing this, on the one hand you have most towing the PC, liberal "let them all in" line, on the other you have racist parties that make the other side look like a joke.I don't think it will be that easy. I think that we will be hearing a lot more from Mr Farage in the next 12 months.
That's the problem. No serious european politician is addressing this, on the one hand you have most towing the PC, liberal "let them all in" line, on the other you have racist parties that make the other side look like a joke.
I think the reason that the exit campaigns have shunned farrage (forcing UKIP to do their own) is that virtually every answer ref immigrants he gives will probably start... I'm not racist but... And most moderate voters will only hear the first and third words and not want to be associated with himI don't think it will be that easy. I think that we will be hearing a lot more from Mr Farage in the next 12 months.
UKIP... Winning the hearts and minds of racistsI urge all of you to google what Peter Bucklistche (sp?) tweeted (and then deleted) about the Syrian toddler who drowned. He is a cnut. feck him and feck UKIP.
I urge all of you to google what Peter Bucklistche (sp?) tweeted (and then deleted) about the Syrian toddler who drowned. He is a cnut. feck him and feck UKIP.
The Brexit vote will be gaining ground from all this, mainly because the EU has shown itself to be such a shambles. Asylum seekers should be processed in the country they arrive in but as none of the countries want them so they haven't bothered processing them, which has led to the mess we're seeing today. .
