Ronaldo is a very good example, because he passes the ball back a lot, he only provokes in one v one when he knows that he has chance of succeeding, unlike Di Maria he rarely dribbles for the sake of it. The only top players who dribbles regularly just to position themselves are Verratti and Messi, they both do it in dangerous areas but they know what they are doing, Di Maria doesn't.
Will that sort of goal be coached out of Martial?
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According to the post-game interview with Young, LVG told him to dribble at the defenders when he was sent in. I think he wants his wingers/strikers to attack directly; but he doesn't want his midfielders to commit their bodies to out-of-position moves by excessive dribbling. However, with some forwards able to see they need to drop and cover, maybe Herrera could be allowed some penetration. Time will tell.
Quite honestly the Caf has become boring because you are just on a good buzz when some ignorant moaner shows up. Not silly. Tiresome.
Yeah van Gaal will destroy him and we will sell him to Sunderland for 2 million pounds in 2 years from now.
Seriously, van Gaal has a good record with young players. He is a strict coach and loves to play exactly like he wants, but that doesn't mean that just because our attacking players don't perform, it's always the fault of LvG and that his top players are not allowed to do some magic. He doesn't want us to lose the ball when it's unnecessary, that's it. I am pretty sure he isn't pissed when Martial runs circles around defenders and scores goals like the one against Pool.
Seriously, van Gaal has a good record with young players. He is a strict coach and loves to play exactly like he wants, but that doesn't mean that just because our attacking players don't perform, it's always the fault of LvG and that his top players are not allowed to do some magic. He doesn't want us to lose the ball when it's unnecessary, that's it. I am pretty sure he isn't pissed when Martial runs circles around defenders and scores goals like the one against Pool.
Very true, both Verratti and Messi are far more intelligent than Di Maria. Hopefully Martial turns out the same way.
What an awful thread! I honestly can't believe this place these days.
it really is a joke. This is why people can't stand the negative bullshit. Because it's gone far beyond reasonable and rational criticism which we all tend to indulge in when things are not perfect.Lets just enjoy what Martial is going to provide. Hopefully he can do that more often and be very consistent. If he is producing the goods, don't think LvG or anyone else will try and change him too much.
Truth is it's not the coaching that will take it out of him. He's just going to find it hard to keep repeating such a feat simply because he's so young. It always happens.
Ronaldo had a majestic debut, but then had a very up and down next few seasons where he ocellated between very good and rubbish.
Januzaj's debut away from home was as good as it gets for an 18 year old in the premier league. Two lovely goals to win us 3 points away from home. It was classy a feck. Since then he's faced tough times and defenders have gotten the better of him.
Rooney was the best teenager of the lot. His debut was even better than Januzaj's, and basically the best debut I've ever seen form a young player. Magical night. Even he had some frustrating mimenrs particularly in front of goal, although Rooney was on a different level to Januzaj and Ronaldo, and just freakishly complete.
So yeah, it was the dream debut. But don't go round expecting him to perform like a premier league top performer like Sanchez already. We were ahead and Liverpool needed a goal and he had space even though he utilised it magnificently and showcased true skill. He will often be facing 10 men packina bus, much like Memphis did in the first half, and he will struggle with it. But hopefully he develops also over time and produces stuff like this every now and then.
Ronaldo had a majestic debut, but then had a very up and down next few seasons where he ocellated between very good and rubbish.
Januzaj's debut away from home was as good as it gets for an 18 year old in the premier league. Two lovely goals to win us 3 points away from home. It was classy a feck. Since then he's faced tough times and defenders have gotten the better of him.
Rooney was the best teenager of the lot. His debut was even better than Januzaj's, and basically the best debut I've ever seen form a young player. Magical night. Even he had some frustrating mimenrs particularly in front of goal, although Rooney was on a different level to Januzaj and Ronaldo, and just freakishly complete.
So yeah, it was the dream debut. But don't go round expecting him to perform like a premier league top performer like Sanchez already. We were ahead and Liverpool needed a goal and he had space even though he utilised it magnificently and showcased true skill. He will often be facing 10 men packina bus, much like Memphis did in the first half, and he will struggle with it. But hopefully he develops also over time and produces stuff like this every now and then.
I disagree with some of your views here.
Players are not coached to not take risks, they are coached with 2 simple ideas in mind. The more you have the ball, the less opportunity for the opposition to hurt you and the most important one you need to score more than them to win. Under that guise, you do not want players to run around l Ike headless chickens, read Adnan, who can not think while on the ball. There is no point in players running into a brick wall of opponents or running down their wing to the line and then crossing when no one is in the box. LVG wants players to use their head. We saw Shaw, Darmian, Schweinsteiger and Herrera all take on people, run into open spaces to create opportunities. Ashley and Anthony also went at people. The likes of Rooney, Depay and Carrick have not done this frequently enough which may reflect their own level of confidence. I would love to know where people get this LVG coaches safety first. I have not heard it from one player.
I don't think Martial will change his game as he's in a different position physically to our other players. It looks like he'll play up front which means he'll be asked to use his pace to get in behind players. Therefore at times his pace may leave him isolated 1 v 1 with then the goal ahead of him.
That's a much different situation to say Mata or Memphis who have a number of players to still work the ball through.
Looking at the Martial goal as soon as he ran at Skrtel he had no further options. He had to take him on and try to make things happen. As the front man that will happen a lot.
But I also watched the highlights of what he was involved with and there were a couple of occasions where he looked up, wanted to go past a man but opted for keeping the ball. And that's absolutely fine because at times you do need to do simple things.
Messi doesn't run with the ball every single time he gets it. Sometimes he plays it more simply. To become one of the top players in the world it's as much about doing the right things as it is looking great going past people. It also makes you more unpredictable and defenders can't commit either way as they don't know what you are going to do.
That's a much different situation to say Mata or Memphis who have a number of players to still work the ball through.
Looking at the Martial goal as soon as he ran at Skrtel he had no further options. He had to take him on and try to make things happen. As the front man that will happen a lot.
But I also watched the highlights of what he was involved with and there were a couple of occasions where he looked up, wanted to go past a man but opted for keeping the ball. And that's absolutely fine because at times you do need to do simple things.
Messi doesn't run with the ball every single time he gets it. Sometimes he plays it more simply. To become one of the top players in the world it's as much about doing the right things as it is looking great going past people. It also makes you more unpredictable and defenders can't commit either way as they don't know what you are going to do.
So people's proof of Van Gaal discouraging dribbling is Mata who can't beat players with dribbling and Rooney who can't beat players and Di Maria who was shit. Or Herrera who isn't a dribbler
This is probably a condensed version of what was mentioned, but LvG favours safe passing from players he deems to be non-creative. This is part of his problem with Herrera as they both seemingly disagreed on the pitch what role he should be in. Strikers almost certainly wouldn't fall under this remit so I would consider Martial safe in this regard.
And the only one in our line-up capable of doing so [Young] has been doing it now more than ever.
If/When Martial and Pereira get some solid gametime, I'd expect to see them taking players on too.
And the only one in our line-up capable of doing so [Young] has been doing it now more than ever.
If/When Martial and Pereira get some solid gametime, I'd expect to see them taking players on too.
I think the main argument though seems to be based on Memphis. Who for one reason or another doesn't seem to have taken off yet in the way we'd have hoped. He doesn't seem to take players on like we all expected him to and so far seems fairly ineffective.
I don't get where this strange myth comes from. We favour possession football but that doesn't mean players can't take opposition players on.
Like are people actually serious when they think LVG doesn't want our players to dribble? I mean I'm sure he would be angry if a player received the ball at the halfway line and has plenty of options but decides to dribble and loses the ball.
But erm yeah no you're being a bit silly.
Like are people actually serious when they think LVG doesn't want our players to dribble? I mean I'm sure he would be angry if a player received the ball at the halfway line and has plenty of options but decides to dribble and loses the ball.
But erm yeah no you're being a bit silly.
I think striker will be his exception. Striker role is to make something happen and score, I can read his philosophy, I can....
Depay seems to have complete freedom though. See the game vs Newcastle. If that's the evidence people are using then it's a lost argument as soon as it begins.
And the left winger seemingly, basically the one player on the pitch who can dribble is dribbling. People want Mata and Rooney to do then they'll be disappointed.
Was it coached out of Robben at the WC ?
To me it looks like Depay desperately wants to do something brilliant on his own every single time he gets the ball up front. But that's obviously not possible so he ends up losing the ball a fair bit or otherwise spend too much time on the ball waiting for an opening.
Inevitably as the kid struggles to produce this magic all the time, it will be claimed that it has been coached out of him.
Just like Ronaldo had all that skill on his debut, but then it was coached out of him by Sir Alex which meant he did it off and on when he went against instructions,and then when Queroz came he sorted him out and made him into a top player.
Coaching.
His skill was never coached out of him at United. He was just attempting stepovers all the time.
Well yeah, sortof my point. Just like depay's for example isn't being coached out either. It's just that he isn't pulling what he wants to off and isn't losing confidence. Same will go for martial. If he can he will produce moments of brilliance. The manager isnt a moron to stop him from doing brilliant things. He might struggle to though but it wont be the coaching that will stop him.
Even a so-called "risk averse" Manager like LvG will accept players taking chances in the final 3rd , if a team has any ambition to score goals, it can't always been done with continuous passing......ask Arsenal !
The Kid will be fine as long as he does not lose confidence and belief and nobody tucks into him after a below par game, which he's bound to have quite a few of......
The Kid will be fine as long as he does not lose confidence and belief and nobody tucks into him after a below par game, which he's bound to have quite a few of......
Did you see how LVG & Giggs reacted to Martial's goal? They smiled broadly at each other and were only short of high-fiving, they're going to encourage Martial to use his natural ability as often as possible.
Memphis doesn't really seem like a player who wants to take players, though. His close control is pretty weak, and he's far better when he can exert his physicality and speed over distances with space ahead, like say, Bale does. He isn't really a deft, twinkle-toe kind of winger and as a result doesn't attempt to dribble frequently. That said, us overplaying him [he's freakishly fit for a 21 year old but coming into the BPL and playing 90 minutes for almost every game will take its toll] and a confidence issue is probably also effecting his dribbling. Nothing went his way against a pretty inform Clyne last game. He'll get there.
It was coached out of Rooney too
I certainly hope not. We may have conceded the fewest shots of any side in the league and averaged the 2nd most possession, but we've also recorded only the 13th most shots on goal and 16th most dribbles. We need all the attacking flair we can get.
Ofcourse not. The 10, wingers and striker all have freedom to be creative in the final 3rd. They only need to watch where they do it, so that they don't lose the ball in positions that will lead to trouble (close to de Gea). Martial was out wide and alone up the pitch, if he'd lost the ball there wouldn't be a problem so attempting a dribble is fine with van Gaal.
No manager worth their salt would do anything but enjoy that type of goal. Young has been running at defenders successfully since Van Gaal arrived and it seems he is very much in his good books.
Off topic but are you going to the game Moro? Sorry if this was asked before.
Yep! The last time I will be able to wear my PSV Memphis shirt to a match
Yep! The last time I will be able to wear my PSV Memphis shirt to a match
Lol. Confused as to whom to support?
Eh? I thought you had signed for us now?Yep! The last time I will be able to wear my PSV Memphis shirt to a match
@NL Max Wanted to thank you for your post last year explaining LVG's philosophy ( I was in the newbies - just got promoted). I thought you had said that you wanted to do another post this year after the transfers. Keenly awaiting your interpretation of what the manager is thinking. Thanks!
LVG does not have anything against dribblers, LVG wants the player to make the right decision after completing the dribble. Also, LVG wants them to know when to dribble and when not to dribble. Am pretty sure everyone will agree with that.
Yes LVG will teach him to stand statically in the center and never run with the ball on his feet and only take shots when he is in 1 meter range from the goal. That's how he role's. I also heard that he teaches everyone to pass the ball back to our GK no matter where on the field they are that's the one pass every player needs to master and he is good to play under LVG.
believe it if it fits your narrative
believe it if it fits your narrative
Highly unlikely, LVG has been saying all summer we lack players who have speed and can beat a player, he will be encouraging him more than anything.
OP was spot on. No freedom, no playing his natural game. Martial is officially a part of the philosophy.
Yet another player who had a bright start and got moved for no reason. He's tired though.
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