Will that sort of goal be coached out of Martial?

LR7 said:
Yes you're being silly. LvG was absolutely buzzing about his "dribbling one-on-one" after the game so it'll be encouraged.
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So, what about when Di Maria used to do his dribbling and lose possession. Then he got benched. Then he got sold.
LVG is "buzzing" because the ball went into the net. What will happen when the ball doesn't go into the net and he loses possession (like what happened with Di Maria)?

pierrethesnack said:
Martial seems to fit the bill, unlike di Maria.
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Di Maria was a better player than Martial. Di Maria was/is at the peak of his powers. In what way does Martial fit the bill...better than Di Maria? Can you elaborate?

Sarni said:
Yes. Van Gaal will also tell him never to score a goal again.
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That's silly.
What LVG tells his players is to think, "can you score?" If there is doubt then its better to side or backwards pass. This way, we can keep probing, while maintaining possession and hopefully a better opportunity to score will appear.
We have seen this in several attacking players who use the side/back passing strategy. Do you think they are doing this because off their own free will or because they have been told to play like this?
 
sunama said:
So, what about when Di Maria used to do his dribbling and lose possession. Then he got benched. Then he got sold.
LVG is "buzzing" because the ball went into the net. What will happen when the ball doesn't go into the net and he loses possession (like what happened with Di Maria)?
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Di Maria used to do it deep in midfield and that would piss LvG off. He's always said he has no issues with dribbling in the right areas i.e. far enough away from our goal.
 
sunama said:
So, what about when Di Maria used to do his dribbling and lose possession. Then he got benched. Then he got sold.
LVG is "buzzing" because the ball went into the net. What will happen when the ball doesn't go into the net and he loses possession (like what happened with Di Maria)?



Di Maria was a better player than Martial. Di Maria was/is at the peak of his powers. In what way does Martial fit the bill...better than Di Maria? Can you elaborate?
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Sure. Of course I'm not saying Martial is a better player, that would be ridiculous. What I mean is that from the little I've seen from Martial he seems a bit less of an instinct player. I can easily see him being patient and able to adapt to the somewhat sluggish possession game we often resort to, without getting frustrated. Di Maria, as great as he is, seems completely dependent on being given the freedom to roam and do whatever the feck he wants, and when that doesn't work, there isn't much else he can do. So while Martial is obviously nowhere near Di Maria's level at this moment, I just think he looks much better suited to our game.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
From what I have seen of Martial, he loves to run at defenders and try and take them on and beat them. When it works it can end up in a great goal or assist, like we saw yesterday. However, it is high risk and, more often than not, it ends up with his team losing possession.

Martial will not really have had much coaching from LVG and his staff yet - can't even speak English - so he was just playing his natural game.

I am slightly worried that once he starts playing regularly and the other side of his natural game emerges (i.e. we lose possession sometimes) LVG will start instructing him to play safer - like all our other players now do.

Am I just being silly?
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Young has played under LVG a year and constantly runs at players, he did it straight after he came off yesterday. He even said LVG told him to run at his man on Sky Sports.

Depay has known LVG for a few years, due to LVG being his coach for the national team, he still runs at players.

You occasionally seen players like Mata, Rooney, Herrera try to beat there man.
 
Di Maria wasn't benched cause he was dribbling. He was benched cause he was giving away 5 yard passes in our own half, over hitting crosses and taking hopeless shots from 40 yards. Has LVG stopped Young from taking players on? He's taking on more players than he's ever done for us.
 
Adisa said:
Di Maria wasn't benched cause he was dribbling. He was benched cause he was giving away 5 yard passes in our own half, over hitting crosses and taking hopeless shots from 40 yards. Has LVG stopped Young from taking players on? He's taking on more players than he's ever done for us.
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Was coming to say this exact thing. Di Maria wasn't killing teams with dribbles, he was killing us with his bad passing.
 
:lol:

What an awful thread! I honestly can't believe this place these days.
 
Look at one of the first things that Young did when he came on and tell me that Van Gaal doesn't want his attackers taking players on.
 
I'm completely with the OP.

Maybe not on this particular case, but more and more players aren't coached to take players on (and risk losing possession). They aren't coached to take risks or do what might be considered difficult.

And Van Gaal certainly fits into that category of a manager who prefers his players not to take risks. We just had Rooney and Carrick (apparently) say they are unhappy to LVG about this very thing.

To me, it seems there are two types of players at the club. 80-90% will be taught to contain, the stick to their fixed roles and to play the same triangular passes so as not to lose possession. Players who used to go into the second category may fall into this one over time, if the club thinks they have lost some pace or quickness. Carrick would fall into this category "all he does is pass backwards" (late 00's) or Rooney "Why does he not score goals anymore", or Valencia "he never takes players on anymore"...

Or Januzaj.. he was a creative player who would probably lose possession much more than he created something at the moment, but LVG doesn't want to take risks like that, so he's been shipped out.

Welbeck was another one, frustrating to watch as he misses more than he scores, so shipped out straight away.

Even the Netherlands at the World Cup were devoid of creativity after the group stage.

Now that's not say that I blame LVG.. it's actually just the way Football is going. Arsene Wenger has been turning his side into a team that doesn't know how to take people on for a decade, and so to some extent has everyone else. If you look at what Arsene was saying about strikers only coming from South America, there are clearly some big problems in creating outstanding European footballers other than midfielders.
 
Shamwow said:
Look at one of the first things that Young did when he came on and tell me that Van Gaal doesn't want his attackers taking players on.
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Young in his post match interview said Van Gaal told him at half time to get on the ball and take on his man. This thread is a nonsense.
 
Sunny Jim said:
He is not, i see where he is coming from.
Van Gaal coached out good runs from Herrera so it is likely that Martial will also be told not dribble past players.
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Watch our second goal again.
 
I'm a bit surprised by some of the responces, it seems obvious to me watching us that the players seem to be playing with shackles on them.
Thats either down to Van Gaal, the players being cowards, or the players are just shit.
 
RetroStu said:
I'm a bit surprised by some of the responces, it seems obvious to me watching us that the players seem to be playing with shackles on them.
Thats either down to Van Gaal, the players being cowards, or the players are just shit.
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Well the hell you want,that he removes shackles from everyone?! So we have 10 players doing ala Lovren vs West Ham?
 
RetroStu said:
I'm a bit surprised by some of the responces, it seems obvious to me watching us that the players seem to be playing with shackles on them.
Thats either down to Van Gaal, the players being cowards, or the players are just shit.
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It's because he asks them to think about what they are doing and be aware of what is happening around them, and the players think too much. The problem is that Van gaal is the type of coach who will ask them to explain why they did what, they did.
 
Thanks all. I'm glad that most think I'm just being silly. I guess that Di Maria is in the back of my mind.

Time will tell of course but a great start by Martial - and a great win over our biggest rivals!
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Thanks all. I'm glad that most think I'm just being silly. I guess that Di Maria is in the back of my mind.

Time will tell of course but a great start by Martial - and a great win over our biggest rivals!
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How was it coached out of Di Maria? He constantly tried and constantly failed. If anything, he should have been told to pass the ball more.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
From what I have seen of Martial, he loves to run at defenders and try and take them on and beat them. When it works it can end up in a great goal or assist, like we saw yesterday. However, it is high risk and, more often than not, it ends up with his team losing possession.

Martial will not really have had much coaching from LVG and his staff yet - can't even speak English - so he was just playing his natural game.

I am slightly worried that once he starts playing regularly and the other side of his natural game emerges (i.e. we lose possession sometimes) LVG will start instructing him to play safer - like all our other players now do.

Am I just being silly?
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The goal put a massive smile on LVG's face, in the interview he had a massive grin on his face just like all of us had/have.
 
United again! said:
Nope, you aren't. I hope so as well, when Di Maria joined you could see the guy pick up the ball and run off with it and everyone stood around going "wtf mayne why you running off like that the gaff will go mentul". I hope Van Gaal leaves the leash off of him.
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Di Maria was running with the ball so that he can dive the minute a defender came near him, then he wouldn't get the free kick and would have given the ball away. That's what happened a lot of times.
 
I wish people would stop using Di Maria as an example of anything but a player having completely the wrong attitude and the bad massively outweighing the good.
 
He simply asks players to think more and be less instinctive. If the player is in the right position where trying to take on his man is the best option, then he should go for it. Di Maria was in our midfield trying to take 2 or 3 players on, often failing in the process. In fact that is why Van Gaal rightly wanted someone like Bale or Neymar, they succeed at it and they know when to do it. I don't really get the attitude towards Di Maria, the man had 6 months of world class football in his ENTIRE career, he was known to be inconsistent much like Nani without the goals. The only mistake in that fiasco was paying a fortune for him because we were in muppet Galactico mode.
 
I can see LVG sitting Martial down in the team meeting and showing the goal saying this is exactly what we need you to stop doing. Makes sense why buy a striker to score goals?
 
Sunny Jim said:
He is not, i see where he is coming from.
Van Gaal coached out good runs from Herrera so it is likely that Martial will also be told not dribble past players.
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Even if this was somehow true, Herrera had his best scoring season under van gaal. Maybe he taught herrera how to make effective runs?
 
You're not being silly at all. Only Van Gaal knows what's going on inside Van Gaal's head. He is very unpredictable. However I can't see how it would benefit anyone if Martial's directness was inhibited, especially when it's a big part of his game.
 
rcoobc said:
I'm completely with the OP.

Maybe not on this particular case, but more and more players aren't coached to take players on (and risk losing possession). They aren't coached to take risks or do what might be considered difficult.

And Van Gaal certainly fits into that category of a manager who prefers his players not to take risks. We just had Rooney and Carrick (apparently) say they are unhappy to LVG about this very thing.

To me, it seems there are two types of players at the club. 80-90% will be taught to contain, the stick to their fixed roles and to play the same triangular passes so as not to lose possession. Players who used to go into the second category may fall into this one over time, if the club thinks they have lost some pace or quickness. Carrick would fall into this category "all he does is pass backwards" (late 00's) or Rooney "Why does he not score goals anymore", or Valencia "he never takes players on anymore"...

Or Januzaj.. he was a creative player who would probably lose possession much more than he created something at the moment, but LVG doesn't want to take risks like that, so he's been shipped out.

Welbeck was another one, frustrating to watch as he misses more than he scores, so shipped out straight away.

Even the Netherlands at the World Cup were devoid of creativity after the group stage.
.
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Didn't they complain that the dressing room was flat, not about anything you stating? (was in this weeks press conference)

I don't get what your saying about Carrick, Rooney or Valencia there?

Januzaj was given a chance and did not impress in either. LVG shipped him out because he likes him, just does not think he's good enough to get lots of minutes here this season (was in this weeks press conference) and wants him to come back

Welbeck, LVG stated that he did not think he scored enough goals for a striker to be a player at Manchester United, Welbeck didn't want to go on loan (and had tried to leave under Fergie and Moyes remember) so was sold. At the time we had Rooney, RVP and Falcao coming in.

Holland, i agree, but they had Robben and both Depay blatantly running at players all tournament.
 
Sunny Jim said:
He is not, i see where he is coming from.
Van Gaal coached out good runs from Herrera so it is likely that Martial will also be told not dribble past players.
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He is.
 
LVG is not stupid, he will instruct him to do exactly what he is good at. Like a Robben. If its overdone, maybe he will be told to be smart about it or whatever. It's not like LVG will stick to only one type of documented style.
 
AdM's game is about running with the ball, essentially carrying the ball through the midfield and hoping that gaps emerge before he's either dispossessed or has to do a do a hit and hope cross because everyone's marked. It's exciting to watch when he's on form, but if you plan on possession play and solid passing taking the ball into the final third, he's not your man. He's not even a consistently good goalscoring winger, never mind a wide forward.

What Martial did is completely different. He was on the attack, not far from goal, he saw a gap and went for it. Every top manager wants that. Like every other young flair player, part of growing up for Martial will be that he becomes a percentages player, and as he gets used to his teammates he'll know when/how to use them best.

Ronaldo used to rewatch games in his first couple of seasons to see what he got wrong and it helped turn him into a more ruthless player. Will Martial get so freaked out by the Monday morning video of his worst moments that it makes him second guess himself at vital moments? Hopefully not, LvG says Martial is for "the next manager" so I'm expecting him to add things, not lose them.
 
Di Maria wasn't benched because of risk taking, he was benched because his risk taking did not produce any effects whatsoever and it got to a point where he became a liability to us. If Martial starts to overcomplicate things he might also end up on the bench but for now his unpredictability will work in his favour because he might just become the only player in our whole team capable of a moment of magic (maybe Depay will also develop into one).
 
Caf nowadays... Pouting shit without even knowing anything.
 
Excellent thread.
 
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