Bundesliga 2015/2016

Fair enough but that doesn't change the fact that dortmund were robbed today due to the ref's decisions.

Wasn't the second Dortmund goal offside - in German TV they did not show that from the side. It looked suspicious.
And I do not know another revenue in Germany where they get 8 minutes overtime (first and second half) when the home team does not lead...
 
Why the hell did we lose possession consistently in the last 7-8 minutes? Darmstadt were on our half much more than they should have.
 
Well, the illusion of a "title race" (there was never one in the first place) is now dead even before the direct clash, which is a shame because it would have given the game a bit more of hype. Still, five points already to the 4th place is a good result after 7 games.
It really sucks for the game next week that you guys threw away/fecked up/were robbed what should have been easy wins against Hoffenheim and Darmstadt while we got lucky against Augsburg. But what can you do, stop moaning. If Dortmund can beat us next week, it's open again. If not, it would have been next to impossible anyway.
 
What has happened to Nuri Sahin? Looked amazing before he went to Real and then fell off a cliff. Last I heard he was still at Dortmund, but surely he doesn't get a look in with the midfield they have?
 
What has happened to Nuri Sahin? Looked amazing before he went to Real and then fell off a cliff. Last I heard he was still at Dortmund, but surely he doesn't get a look in with the midfield they have?
He was Dortmund's best midfielder last season, when he was fit, and would probably start instead of Weigl, if he wasn't still injured.
 
It really sucks for the game next week that you guys threw away/fecked up/were robbed what should have been easy wins against Hoffenheim and Darmstadt while we got lucky against Augsburg. But what can you do, stop moaning. If Dortmund can beat us next week, it's open again. If not, it would have been next to impossible anyway.

Even if we would have won against Darmstadt (we did not deserve a win vs. Hoffenheim btw) and beat Munich next week (which is possible in a single game), it would still not make the title race open. I watched all games of both teams and know exactly which team will end up being the most consistent. Most of the time the score line actually flattered the opponents of Bayern Munich. If it was close, you had the necessary attitude and the luck to close it out.

Seriously, no one should have expected us to be the main challenger of Bayern this year. We have a new coach, a new tactical system and are far from finished with the reconstruction of the squad. I still rate our squad highly, it is the second best in the country, which makes it even more sad how inferior it is to Munich´s. Their squad is unreal in terms of depth and was even strengthened out of a dominant position this Summer.

This is not about understatement or moaning (except about this game today, which should be understandable), it is about being realistic. Our goal is to get back into the CL asap and we are on a very good way to accomplish that. We have nothing to do with Bayern Munich, who will win the title every year unless they make grave mistakes, except when we play them directly for the points or in the cup. If they do make these mistakes we might have a shot, but the chances of that are extremely slim. Out of our own power we have no chance in hell, for that we simply lack the options after the top 13 or 14 players to win nearly every game and every other team is in the same spot or worse. For that the smaller teams are tactically simply too good and the rest of the league too competitive.

Here is the hard truth, which every neutral or non Bayern fan I know knows: There is NO real competition for the title in the Bundesliga and I don´t know when this will change. This league has many charms (tight relegation fights, great atmosphere, competitions for the international places, surprise teams), but a tight title race is not one of them. For that the gap between Bayern and the rest is already too wide and it continues to widen. This is mostly because Bayern have done very good work for decades and now there are in a position of absolute power, which makes it extremely hard for one other club to beat them over a whole season, let alone longer.
 
Dortmund had various chances, should have gotten a pen and the ref was terrible overall. Obviously Dortmund should have killed the game, but Darmstadt didn´t deserve anything from this game.

Darmstadt deserves every point they win. They spent around €2.5-€3M on the transfer market. Oh that´s not this summer, that´s in their 117 year existence. If you get five points away from home against Dortmund, Leverkusen and Schalke you deserve them, even if you had literally played Handball and the refs ignored it.

The offside-penalty was like 60 seconds before the 2nd goal. And once Dortmund took the 2-1 lead they just sat back for some inexplicable reason.
 
@Sphaero

As long as the teams loose points against the smaller teams it will not change. I hate this referee discussions. Dortmund did not produce enough out of their own possession today. They had 4 chances on target - Darmstadt had 3. There was no immense goalkeeper performance of Darmstadt... If at the same time you allow the opponent to get two goals...

There is always some bad referee decisions - on both sides. Fouls not given - or fouls given. It still does not have to lead to a goal...

Yes, luck is always part of it - but you can fight your luck. That is what Darmstadt is doing greatly...

That Dortmund right now had 4 points less than Bayern has more to do with Dortmund and not with Bayern. If the team is too stupid to loose points against teams that have much lesser budgets... This matches are must-wins if you want to have title chances.
 
@Sphaero

As long as the teams loose points against the smaller teams it will not change. I hate this referee discussions. Dortmund did not produce enough out of their own possession today. They had 4 chances on target - Darmstadt had 3. There was no immense goalkeeper performance of Darmstadt... If at the same time you allow the opponent to get two goals...

There is always some bad referee decisions - on both sides. Fouls not given - or fouls given. It still does not have to lead to a goal...

Yes, luck is always part of it - but you can fight your luck. That is what Darmstadt is doing greatly...

Well, first af all we had five not four, but this stat is also quite meaningless without the right context. Mkhitaryan for example had two shots in the first half, one flat directly on the keeper, one half a meter next to the right post. I´m sure the first one was way more important according to your stat, right? Let´s just ignore that narrowly missing the goal can be way more dangerous than a harmless shot on target. Same with Auba´s huge chance directly after the 0-1 from four meters, which missed the goal.

You are actually right, that we did not create as much as usual today. This is partly because Darmstadt is a tactically very well drilled team (I praised them for that before in this very thread), but also because we had three promising attacking plays denied by bad offside calls and one other poor one denied us a stonewall penalty.

Then there is also the fact, that the foul which led to the freekick before the equalizer was a far smaller offense than the action vs. Weigl on the other side not even a minute earlier. This is simply inconsistent refereeing and massively influenced the game today, which I´m sure you won´t admit, because you are not actually neutral when it comes to Dortmund.

That Dortmund right now had 4 points less than Bayern has more to do with Dortmund and not with Bayern. If the team is too stupid to loose points against teams that have much lesser budgets... This matches are must-wins if you want to have title chances.

It has to do with Bayern, because of their brutal consistency, which is a direct result of their squad strength. Football players are not machines, they can have poor games and especially with us having had a major tactical transition just this Summer some stuttering of the machine is to be expected. It is also not true that you are forced to win every of these games to normally win a league title. We still have a point average of 2,4 so far this season, which is ridicously high and would equal a 82 points season (thats slightly better than our historically best season). Even if we lose vs. Munich next week, we would still finish the season with 72 points on average. This used to be enough to win the Bundesliga, but it isn´t anymore. Now, you basically have to play the perfect season to have a chance vs. Bayern Munich and this is simply impossible without a massive squad (both in terms of quality and depth) given the sheer number of games the players have to play for the club alone. The only chance is that Bayern drop points themselves, which is what I wrote earlier. They have to make major mistakes themselves and can basically only beat themselves.

Bayern Munich has a massive advantage with their squad, because they can bring stronger players from the bench, are less affected by injuries, can give key players more opportunities to rest and have an extremely competive atmosphere inside the team, which keeps motiviation extremely high.
 
A team competing with Bayern would be good for them. Should keep them sharp for the Champions League as well.
 
Now, you basically have to play the perfect season to have a chance vs. Bayern Munich and this is simply impossible without a massive squad
All your fault. Shouldn't have taken the points record of us and made some arrogant comments how no one will better that for a long time ;).

And the feck, you're really into writing walls of text recently.
 
All your fault. Shouldn't have taken the points record of us and made some arrogant comments how no one will better that for a long time ;).

And the feck, you're really into writing walls of text recently.

Recently :lol:?

I always wrote lengthy posts in real discussions. I´m probably one of the people with the highest number of words per post. If I would split up my posts more, I would probably have far more than 5k posts at this point. ;)
 
It really sucks for the game next week that you guys threw away/fecked up/were robbed what should have been easy wins against Hoffenheim and Darmstadt while we got lucky against Augsburg. But what can you do, stop moaning. If Dortmund can beat us next week, it's open again. If not, it would have been next to impossible anyway.

Well if the race would be even right now, Dortmund could even lose the game next week and the race wouldn't be over yet. For every team in the world it is very close to impossible to win away at Bayern right now in an important game. Then it would just be a difference of 3-4 points but now it will probably be a difference of 7 (maybe just 4 with a massive massive performance of BVB) which ends the championship race already for sure.

Well, Dortmund has to go out all guns blazing, i can see them doing very well in the first half. But well the second half will be different..
 
I think the problem of Dortmund might be that the media celebrates them for even little successes and seldom really is critical about bad performances.

Look e.g. at the matches against Odds. Bayern would have been slaughtered for the 5 goals against - whereas the media celebrated the "mentality monsters" for turning around a match against a team that does not even have the quality of a Bundesliga team.

It is always like this. And it might be difficult for the players to not believe into the hype. There is not many fans that don't. Whereas it gives the Bayern players a little extra drive because they do not want to read about the "loosers" and "failures" the whole week...
 
I think the problem of Dortmund might be that the media celebrates them for even little successes and seldom really is critical about bad performances.

Look e.g. at the matches against Odds. Bayern would have been slaughtered for the 5 goals against - whereas the media celebrated the "mentality monsters" for turning around a match against a team that does not even have the quality of a Bundesliga team.

It is always like this. And it might be difficult for the players to not believe into the hype. There is not many fans that don't. Whereas it gives the Bayern players a little extra drive because they do not want to read about the "loosers" and "failures" the whole week...

Weird. I could have sworn that captain Hummels warned very publically just a week ago, that they started as good as now two years ago and then fell in form and should always keep up concentration and hunger. Coach Tuchel preaches the same thing in every freaking presser, stating that the league table means very little at this point. Pretty much every interviewed player said that while being happy´about the progress they have not won anything at this point.

And I´m sorry, but how the feck do you want to know what the majority of the Dortmund support thinks? Are you frequently enough in the stadium or tied close enough to the fanclub network of Borussia Dortmund to know "that only a few don´t believe the media hype". Hell, I would not even dare to make a statement like this and I´m pretty sure I´m a hell lot closer to the core support than you are. I would not even know what to base this on. Borussia Dortmund has millions of fans.

However, you would be surprised how many supporter share my view on the matter and don´t follow blindly the media. The most I know are surprised and relieved as much as I am about the progress of the team, but know exactly where the focus lies and thats not Bayern Munich, but Leverkusen, Schalke, Wolfsburg etc., in short the competition for the CL places.

The media always works with extremes and also always has an agenda. Like in your example it was way more fitting to praise "Tuchel´s pragmatic mentality monster" after all the hype about his person since he stepped down from his Job in Mainz. Borussia Dortmund is overhyped at the moment. Bayern Munich, who will btw always been seen more critical as the juggernaut of the country (they also have by far the most amount of haters, which is a plus aswell), needs a rival after all. Would not be great for their sells and generated clicks if they would admit that the title race of the league is a total borefest after all.
 
However, you would be surprised how many supporter share my view on the matter and don´t follow blindly the media. The most I know are surprised and relieved as much as I am about the progress of the team, but know exactly where the focus lies and thats not Bayern Munich, but Leverkusen, Schalke, Wolfsburg etc., in short the competition for the CL places.
But that's only because last season was a fecking nightmare against all odds. Before last season, you yourself talked about having the best squad ever, a starting line-up on par with the title winning one and how none of the other contenders for a CL spot could touch Dortmund. It's the same team, many of the players actually improved and it has even more squad depth. The extreme depressing talk is just silly, Dortmund with this team should comfortably finish 2nd, just like Bayern should comfortable win the league. Just because you have a new manager, a fantastic one after all, doesn't change that, especially because the squad itself doesn't need a rebuild in any way. Don't let van Gaal's philosophy nonsense creep into your brain, all over the football world new managers take over and instantly perform incredibly well.

Obviously, if we again finish on 85+ points, no team will challenge us. You need to hope that Bayern drops back to the level of van Gaal's first or Heynckes' first season. Because even though these teams played well, they were beatable, certainly for a team as good as Dortmund is right now. We won't know that until later in the season though. I still remember how we fell apart in 2011/12 after we looked completely invincible at the start. We were 8 points ahead of you after 7 games back then and finishe 8 points behind you in the end. Obviously it's not likely to happen again, this Bayern side is a different beast. But it's just silly if Dortmund fans now start acting like Bayern fans should already say it's all over and there's no challenger anyway. That's just bullshit.

The media always works with extremes and also always has an agenda. Like in your example it was way more fitting to praise "Tuchel´s pragmatic mentality monster" after all the hype about his person since he stepped down from his Job in Mainz. Borussia Dortmund is overhyped at the moment. Bayern Munich, who will btw always been seen more critical as the juggernaut of the country (they also have by far the most amount of haters, which is a plus aswell), needs a rival after all. Would not be great for their sells and generated clicks if they would admit that the title race of the league is a total borefest after all.
More than enough do it and earn countless clicks from all the deeply depressed Bayern hating fans who only 3 years ago told everyone who didn't run away in 5 seconds how Bayern's failure to win any trophy and Dortmund's double meant that Bayern are fecked and won't win anything for years because they need to rebuild the team completely.

The press today offers everything a fan want to hear, stories for the delusional to the extreme rational. And most people believe it's one-sided because the articles they choose to read give them what they want to hear. It's a total embarrassment.
 
Weird. I could have sworn that captain Hummels warned very publically just a week ago, that they started as good as now two years ago and then fell in form and should always keep up concentration and hunger. Coach Tuchel preaches the same thing in every freaking presser, stating that the league table means very little at this point. Pretty much every interviewed player said that while being happy´about the progress they have not won anything at this point.
I've always been critical about Hummels, not so much about his quality which is obvious, but about his attitude and his behaviour towards team mates. Seems Tuchel sees it in a similar way. After the match yesterday, Hummels fumed about "impossible Defending" ("five, six of our players 20m away from the goal, and they are allowed to hit a volley from 13m away. You can't defend like this"). Tuchel reacted sort of irritated: "He is right about the bad defending, but he himself is a part of it".

Next weeks match may well be a season turning point for them, one way or the other. Either way i doubt they can keep the pressure on Bayern for a full season yet. BVB has an excellent first 11 which can challenge the Bayern machine on a good day. They lack depth still, and they aren't as stable yet as the first couple of results made them look.
 
Bayern's dominance can be explained by various things. In my opinion, the two strongest factors besides money and fame drawing in good players is mentality and for some odd reason, stamina. Many teams will just crumble after the first goal, if they don't give in immediately after the ref starts the game. And stamina... well, if you compare the first and second halves of the Bayern games... the teams in the Bundesliga know how to play against us. The first halves are a testimony to that. But once Bayern subs in fresh players in the second half they cannot keep up anymore. Look at them, they don't run the last two metres to close the gap anymore, they don't mark their players anymore. They don't jump as high, they don't win their tackles. And in the 70th minute, you'll still see Bayern "wolfpacks" surround the pass receiver 4 to 1. It's unreal.

I hope we can carry this over to the CL. I am a little nervous that we're peaking too early.

It's funny, Balu will remember the time when we wasted or almost wasted title after title by making mistakes during the season, losing games we shouldn't lose and generally having a hard time using the potential. Since Heynckes (perhaps van Gaal?), we've stopped making those mistakes and these years I feel like we're actually using the potential to near 100% every time.
 
It's funny, Balu will remember the time when we wasted or almost wasted title after title by making mistakes during the season, losing games we shouldn't lose and generally having a hard time using the potential. Since Heynckes (perhaps van Gaal?), we've stopped making those mistakes and these years I feel like we're actually using the potential to near 100% every time.
It's a very recent thing, we did make all those mistakes in both van Gaal seasons and in Heynckes' first one as well, albeit to a lesser extent than in 10/11. Especially under van Gaal running less than the opponent and talking bullshit afterwards about being the better team was prevalent. I'd argue it reached its peak after the cup final loss against Dortmund in 2012, when we were destroyed by Dortmund and Lahm still came out with those annoying phrases afterwards. Even though we showed promising signs to get rid of it at some points in the season.

I agree that mentality plays such a major role. And in my opinion the mentality in this team came through the horrible CL final loss in 2012. I'm not sure who to credit for it really other than the players and how almost all of them changed for the better afterwards. It's one of the most impressive reactions to a horrible loss I've seen from any side ever in football and it still defines this team. Heynckes did incredibly well to turn it into success, to keep it going without interfering too much with it in the treble winning season. I don't think he instilled it in the team though.
 
True, I think it's a thing that just happened within the team. I agree with you. It's sort of an evolutionairy step in the development process of the squad. And I have high hopes that it continues to stay in the team, if the change of the coach won't affect that. It has chances to survive in the team spirit of our squad for several generations as new players are integrated with the same kind of mentality.

Re: Dortmund. Sphaero may not want to hear this, but I do think Dortmund needs to not make excuses like being in the first year with a new coach. Tuchel knows what he's doing, he's shown it already. They need to get their heads sorted, that's all. Everything else is there. Just wait until Reus is fit. :)

I had high hopes for Dortmund giving us a run for our money. Here's hoping to next year, I kinda miss you guys, Sphaero. It just doesn't feel the same if we don't feel the breath of your squad on our necks. :(
 
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I agree that mentality plays such a major role. And in my opinion the mentality in this team came through the horrible CL final loss in 2012. I'm not sure who to credit for it really other than the players and how almost all of them changed for the better afterwards. It's one of the most impressive reactions to a horrible loss I've seen from any side ever in football and it still defines this team. Heynckes did incredibly well to turn it into success, to keep it going without interfering too much with it in the treble winning season. I don't think he instilled it in the team though.

For me a major role is the team chemistry, too - that developed in that team then and is still there. I think especially the roles of Ribery and Robben changed afterwards - Ribery was the first of it and Robben had to change because he would not have played with Heynckes anymore if he did not. When I see how new players get accepted - like e.g. Alonso last season or Vidal and Costa this season - how fast they seem to be a big part of the team - I just do not think that is so "normal" in other teams.
 
But that's only because last season was a fecking nightmare against all odds. Before last season, you yourself talked about having the best squad ever, a starting line-up on par with the title winning one and how none of the other contenders for a CL spot could touch Dortmund. It's the same team, many of the players actually improved and it has even more squad depth. The extreme depressing talk is just silly, Dortmund with this team should comfortably finish 2nd, just like Bayern should comfortable win the league. Just because you have a new manager, a fantastic one after all, doesn't change that, especially because the squad itself doesn't need a rebuild in any way. Don't let van Gaal's philosophy nonsense creep into your brain, all over the football world new managers take over and instantly perform incredibly well.

Depressing talk? How is calling my squad the second strongest in Germany, a main favourite to win the German cup and the EL depressing talk? I expect them to finish top 3 this season, there is actually no other alternative to that (outside the EL win). This team has to play CL and securing that spot and reclaiming the place as the second power in the country is the most important task of the season.

The only thing I could ask more of them would be the expectation of a league title challenge. I refuse to that at this point because I don´t believe that three months is enough to play to the limit of the new tactical system (which is in stark contrast to the former one). That is what we would have to do (maybe even beyond that) to truly threaten a Bayern Munich at their best. Executing it well is not enough, because we are doing that right now and would be even table leader in Spain or England with our current point average and goal difference. The Bundesliga is a different matter.


Obviously, if we again finish on 85+ points, no team will challenge us. You need to hope that Bayern drops back to the level of van Gaal's first or Heynckes' first season. Because even though these teams played well, they were beatable, certainly for a team as good as Dortmund is right now. We won't know that until later in the season though. I still remember how we fell apart in 2011/12 after we looked completely invincible at the start. We were 8 points ahead of you after 7 games back then and finishe 8 points behind you in the end. Obviously it's not likely to happen again, this Bayern side is a different beast. But it's just silly if Dortmund fans now start acting like Bayern fans should already say it's all over and there's no challenger anyway. That's just bullshit.


Well, in return you should not expect us to proclaim ourselves as the big rival. You said it yourself, that your example of Bayern looking mortal is not really comparable anymore. That Bayern back then played under a different coach, was a different (and weaker) team and had not yet experienced the biggest mental turning point in your recent club history.

When has Bayern Munich actually looked vulnerable in the league in the last three seasons when it still mattered? The only silver lining rival fans had was that there was a certain dependency on Robbery to provide cutting edge. This silver lining is gone now, because you signed a top quality and highly dangerous wide player and one of the biggest offensive talents in the world this Summer. You also replaced an ageing and injury prone midfielder with a world class one. All three players would have been completely unobtainable for any other Bundesliga side btw.

There is no indication that they will show weakness now, so why should I take them as the measure stick for my team, which just had to put an absolute clusterfeck of a season behind them? This is not only unfair to them, but also to myself, because with a probability of at least 95% I set myself up to be dissapointed, so I won´t go down that road. The only team which decides who becomes German champion is Bayern Munich, one way or the other.

My overall stance on the whole matter has not really changed since the hype around us flared up again. If by some chance we are within reach of you guys or at least close to, when you have to play in the Westfalenstadium in the second season half, we can start to talk about a title race. Up until that point I focus on the teams, which can actually pose a threat to the realistic season goals. Teams, who might not be as strong on paper as we are (still way closer to us than we are to Bayern) but can outperform us under certain circumstances.

The best thing both respective supports can actually do is to just focus on their own teams. If Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund do their work well, they will finish at the top of the league, probably not very close to each other, but with a decent distance to the rest of the league. And that is for now enough for me.
 
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Some posts in here are as bayernesque as it gets, brimming of arrogance and self-adulation.

If Bayern win next weekend (which is quite likely) the league will again already be over. As nice as it is to have the whole rest of the league completely open, the lack of any kind of title fight for the last 5 years (The last good one was in 2010!!!) is brutally boring and really taints the leagues charm.
 
Some posts in here are as bayernesque as it gets, brimming of arrogance and self-adulation.

If Bayern win next weekend (which is quite likely) the league will again already be over. As nice as it is to have the whole rest of the league completely open, the lack of any kind of title fight for the last 5 years (The last good one was in 2010!!!) is brutally boring and really taints the leagues charm.
So you can call the league already over after 7 games because Bayern is so dominant but Bayern fans aren't allowed to praise their own team, did I get that right? Sounds reasonable.
 
I didn't do that. At no point.

Then what was the point in this whole exchange? :lol: We are not a realistic challenger for the title this season and thus turn our focus towards the competition for places behind directly the Bayern. That´s the main point I made.

Bayern will win the league this season with an extremely high probability. This high probability makes a lot of people (and the majority of that are not Dortmund fans btw) call the title race as decided before it really began.
 
Then what was the point in this whole exchange? :lol: We are not a realistic challenger for the title this season and thus turn our focus towards the competition for places behind directly the Bayern. That´s the main point I made.

Bayern will win the league this season with an extremely high probability. This high probability makes a lot of people (and the majority of that are not Dortmund fans btw) call the title race as decided before it really began.
Writing walls of text for no apparent reason is fun?

Not entirely sure, how you can't see the difference between what I wrote and me expecting that you proclaim yourself as our main title rivals. What bugged me the most is how you turned my little post about it being a shit situation now for the upcoming game between us into one massive depressing post including stating things like:
Here is the hard truth, which every neutral or non Bayern fan I know knows: There is NO real competition for the title in the Bundesliga and I don´t know when this will change.
Sorry, but the whole 'everyone but Bayern fans knows that Bayern has already won the league for several upcoming seasons' narration sucks beyond belief. 1. because it's not true and 2. because it sets up a way of thinking about the league that makes it impossible for Bayern fans to discuss football at all without someone showing up and posting bullshit like Kasper did a few posts above.

I thought that warranted a response.
 
When do post Winter Break fixtures get released?
I honestly don't know exactly. Still planning your trip to Wolfsburg next year? I think the exact dates and starting times for the matches won't be released until around 2 months before the games. Even the exact dates for the Bundesliga fixtures in December aren't released yet. Maybe @Sphaero knows more?
 
Sorry, but the whole 'everyone but Bayern fans knows that Bayern has already won the league for several upcoming seasons' narration sucks beyond belief. 1. because it's not true and 2. because it sets up a way of thinking about the league that makes it impossible for Bayern fans to discuss football at all without someone showing up and posting bullshit like Kasper did a few posts above.

I thought that warranted a response.
he's sort of right though, right now bayern clearly have the best and most proven squad in the bundesliga and they drop so few points before they win the title so it's natural that people think there's no competition for the title in the bundesliga, at least in recent years.

now does that translate to "bayern will win the title for next 10 years" I don't think so.even the best teams in the league can go through a blip season (which looks like it's happening to juventus atm). but there's no sign of that happening in the bundesliga atm so I can see why some people think that. it's possible that people who say those kind of things are saying so out of jealousy, but I doubt much ould admit to that.
 
Well, the illusion of a "title race" (there was never one in the first place) is now dead even before the direct clash, which is a shame because it would have given the game a bit more of hype. Still, five points already to the 4th place is a good result after 7 games.

Bit pessimistic. Your front 4 is lovely and Gundogan on this form is possibly the best player in the entire league. The defense would have to step up a level, but it's possible. The talent is there. Obviously Bayern look capable of hitting 90 points or some insane number this year but they could slip a little with the CL knockouts games and/or injuries, so I don't see why there isn't a title race.

Dortmund are on pace for 82 points. That would have won the league by 3 points last year.
 
Bayern's dominance can be explained by various things. In my opinion, the two strongest factors besides money and fame drawing in good players is mentality and for some odd reason, stamina.


It's talent. Guardiola is a great coach, but it's talent.

Rafinha (and I guess Coman now) is the only player who regularly plays who isn't a fantastic, near world class footballer. Apart from then, and they only play when injuries require it, the next weakest players are probably Bernat or the Spaniards in the middle and they are great players.
 
Dortmund's performance span is centered around a lower level than Bayern and also wider. With Bayern's squad they have distanced themselves from the contestants to a point that they will win most times even when they perform in the lower deciles of their span. You can't criticise a team for not performing in the top deciles of their span a majority of 34 games which Dortmund would need to do to have chance on the title.

Increasing variance in performances is easier than raising your mean performance to a point where it negates the influence of chance.
 
When do post Winter Break fixtures get released?
currently, the fixtures are official up until round 15 (mid december). the rest of the Hinrunde and he first few matches after that are likely to be officially released around beginning of Nov (http://www.fussball-spielplan.de/terminierung-spielplan-bundesliga/).

One thing that is factored in are the european cup matches. As the last round of the CL group stage is ~9th of december, i recon that is the due date for the league schedule.
 
It's talent. Guardiola is a great coach, but it's talent.

Rafinha (and I guess Coman now) is the only player who regularly plays who isn't a fantastic, near world class footballer. Apart from then, and they only play when injuries require it, the next weakest players are probably Bernat or the Spaniards in the middle and they are great players.

Well, yes of course it's talent. But talent alone won't make you world class. Reducing the argument to just talent is the same as saying "It's just Bayern's luck". Those are excuses to make people feel better but they neglect how intelligent the club is acting in almost all aspects. Especially: Transfers, Financial, Infrastructure... those kinds of things. The talent didn't just gravitate towards the club, you can trace back the decision making process for a few years now and I'd say any "talent" or "luck" Bayern has now is the result of quite pragmatic decisions having been made.

If you look at Dortmund, you can ask very specific questions about their decisions and how it led to last season: Why did they have that buyout clause in Götze's contract? Why did they have a small squad two years ago with the high injury rate? Why are they refusing to pay the piper and still insist on spending small money only? They've been in the CL consistently for a few years, that was the window to open up and widen the gap to the rest of the league. Sphaero has those answers and perhaps I'm asking the wrong questions, but over the decades I've repeated myself about this to friends over and over... Bayern doesn't have a magic trick. It's all there in the open.

Re: Dortmund, of course spending big money is not the answer to everything if you buy players like Immobile that shine in Italy but crash and burn hard in the Bundesliga. I still have no clue how that could happen, he did look good on paper, didn't he?
 
I honestly don't know exactly. Still planning your trip to Wolfsburg next year? I think the exact dates and starting times for the matches won't be released until around 2 months before the games. Even the exact dates for the Bundesliga fixtures in December aren't released yet. Maybe @Sphaero knows more?

Yeah we're still planning to go, but it'll be after christmas now, but I want to make it fit to when Wolfsburg are playing at home, obviously...
 
Sorry, but the whole 'everyone but Bayern fans knows that Bayern has already won the league for several upcoming seasons' narration sucks beyond belief. 1. because it's not true and 2. because it sets up a way of thinking about the league that makes it impossible for Bayern fans to discuss football at all without someone showing up and posting bullshit like Kasper did a few posts above.

I thought that warranted a response.

Well, I did not say that. I said I do not know when this will change, because well, I can´t predict the future. If I could do that I would have taken an hiatus from club football last season. Would have spared me a lot of grieve :p.

What I can rate is the status quo in which Bayern Munich has a huge probability to win the league this season, somewhere between 90-95% in my book. These kinds of odds simply speak for little to no competition for the title. No other club in an European elite league is that much of a favourite as Bayern Munich in Germany.

Maybe that will change in the next season. Maybe we can convince Hummels and Mkhitaryan to stay and invest enough into a squad shaped after Tuchel´s vision, that we are a bigger threat next season. Maybe Guardiola leaves Bayern and the successor does a worse job and the gap gets smaller that way. Who knows?

I get that the initial post might rubbed some people the wrong way, though. It was written in a way harsher tone than I normally use, mostly out of irritation by the post I originally quoted.

Bit pessimistic. Your front 4 is lovely and Gundogan on this form is possibly the best player in the entire league. The defense would have to step up a level, but it's possible. The talent is there. Obviously Bayern look capable of hitting 90 points or some insane number this year but they could slip a little with the CL knockouts games and/or injuries, so I don't see why there isn't a title race.

Dortmund are on pace for 82 points. That would have won the league by 3 points last year.

Oh, you won´t see me disagreeing that our first eleven is pretty damn classy, even the three to four players after that, which is why I´m far more confident in the cup competitions. However, you don´t win a league like the Bundesliga vs the Bayern with just this amount of class player under normal circumstances. The real difference between Dortmund and Bayern is not so much the best possible formation (they are also superior there but not by much), it is the squad depth which is the real deal breaker in a league format.

This could be the bench if everyone at Bayern would be fit (it is not like they are lucky with injuries, quite the contrary, actually):

Ulreich-Benatia, Bernat-Alonso, Rode-Götze, Coman

And this is without the longtime injurees Ribery and Badstuber.

Of course we could get ridicously lucky and all our key players would manage to play around 50 games (including for the countries) this season without injuries on a very high level. It is possible, just highly unlikely (basically the remaining 5%), which is why it should never be the base of expectations for the season.

The bold is not really true, btw. I don´t believe for a second that a Bayern team, which would have had something to play for in the league, would have lost the three games vs. Leverkusen, Augsburg and Freiburg in the manner they did. They completely lacked intensity and stability, which was to be expected because they were already champion. If they would have felt even a little amount of pressure at that point they would have finished with at least 85 points.

If you look at Dortmund, you can ask very specific questions about their decisions and how it led to last season: Why did they have that buyout clause in Götze's contract? Why did they have a small squad two years ago with the high injury rate? Why are they refusing to pay the piper and still insist on spending small money only? They've been in the CL consistently for a few years, that was the window to open up and widen the gap to the rest of the league. Sphaero has those answers and perhaps I'm asking the wrong questions, but over the decades I've repeated myself about this to friends over and over... Bayern doesn't have a magic trick. It's all there in the open.

I do, but it would go to far to really go in detail about that (maybe another time). The short version is, that we had to use a lot of the money we earned back then for infrastructure (maintanance of the stadium, offices, training facilities, academy), because this had to be neglected for a long time to recover financially. Some people like to forget that we were bascially financially dead just ten years ago (a result of trying to rival Bayern´s finances with highly risky business) and for quite a few years the first goal was to stay in the Bundesliga while keeping up the recovery plan we had to undergo.

This has changed in recent years, so we are now in the position to really invest into the squad, both on the market and the wages. The main requirement for that is to play in the CL, though.
 
He was at the Mainz-Hoffenheim game last friday though. Should be interesting at what games he pops up over the next months. He could troll many football fans around Europe with a few carefully chosen appearances :D

Too bad Arsenal and Liverpool already played against each other recently. Imaging him watching a dire 0-0 between these two teams, the fans reaction from both sides:drool::lol:

He could show up for the return leg in January. Would be fun, if he hasn't signed for a club at that point yet.

For extra shits and giggles, he should go wearing that grim reaper outfit from Moysie's last game.

sadly couldn't make that joke on time, was still a newbie :(
 
Not that I mind as the German posters are usually the best around here, but why the hell are we seeing so many Bayern fans on RedCafe?
 
Don't worry, I for one will vanish as fast as I appeared as soon as Utd are on top of us again.