[DOTA]

Cheers:

• We have Martial and they don't
• The third kit looks much better with the black shorts
• We were never going to keep up with City on goal difference anyway

Jeers:

• I don't even know what to do with this section
• Is the Bastian/Carrick combo as good as it appears on paper?
• My Tinder match couldn't get away from work tonight.

Carrick and the unspellable German are dire together. Tinder is never the answer.

 

[Archie Leach]

OK, he's hardly the worst, and pushed to suggest there's much malice about him

but he's a funny player though, innit? - still on Theo

occasionally unplayable but seemingly unable to do the easy stuff some of the rest of the time

He's good when teams allow him to be. He'll never trouble a settled defence though.

 

[JaffyJoe]

The central midfield pairing along with Wayne Rooney killed. They won the game in the midfield. We needed Morgan for his mobility and the defensive side of his game.

 

[No11]

I was at the game today, prawn sandwich with the home fans.

Didn't feel like a 3-0 performance or a game we deserved to lose 3-0. Crazy first 8 minutes... we were caught cold. After that it was pretty even with both teams struggling to make many chances.

Negatives
We lack urgency and someone to create something from nothing either out wide or in midfield.
Damian had a torrid time against Sanchez
Young and Valencia at full back

Positives
Martial. Watching him in the flesh he is a player and a half. The runs and positions he takes... you can't teach some of these things.
Fellani just keeps himself involved in games

This is about the only thing that makes sense, sorry.

 

[711]

I spent so many years laughing at liverpool in their long decline for their belief in possession shite, and now it's us that have picked up that standard. Sad, sad days. We need positive, attacking and youthful football again.

 

[surf]

A bad day at the office. Martial was easily our best player, De Gea, Smalling and Wilson were OK, and the rest were awful. And what were van Gaal and Giggs doing sitting there impassively? Ferguson would have been out on the touchline incandescent with rage, and rightly so.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

You have to admire how Arsenal just blew us off the pitch in the first 10 minutes, the players didn't know what hit them.

 

[Kakeru]

And what were van Gaal and Giggs doing sitting there impassively? Ferguson would have been out on the touchline incandescent with rage, and rightly so.

I always said, I still say and I will say it until the day I die: managers and coaches who do not step up to their technical areas to pass instructions or to give a bollocking to the 4th official in order to change something are totally useless.

 

[Winrar]

A bad day at the office. Martial was easily our best player, De Gea, Smalling and Wilson were OK, and the rest were awful. And what were van Gaal and Giggs doing sitting there impassively? Ferguson would have been out on the touchline incandescent with rage, and rightly so.

I saw him in a clip of 1995 CL final (?) out on the pitch simulating a kick to protest about something in his ajax days. what happened between then and now?

 

[Kakeru]

I saw him in a clip of 1995 CL final (?) out on the pitch simulating a kick to protest about something in his ajax days. what happened between then and now?

Go figure. When Van Gaal was hired, I saw that clip and also saw him giving a bollocking to an American referee during the preseason tour. It makes zero sense to see him never moving his butt up to the technical area.

 

[bbest]

Deja vu? SAF & United were once beaten by Arsenal in a match where old Scholesy & Carrick overran by youthful Fabregas & midfield - same tactical resolve - youthful, high energy, synchronised & well rehearsed side against an experienced but aging centre line. Winner? No need to say.

 

[POF]

You have to admire how Arsenal just blew us off the pitch in the first 10 minutes, the players didn't know what hit them.

You really don't!!!

Arsenal start every game like that. They don't usually go 3-0 up because their opponents know it's coming, set up very compact and actually defend competently.

Both tactically and in actual performance it was a very poor performance by United.

 

[anver]

I have never seen such a lethargic approach by our defence before. That clearance by Blind that led to the first goal was horrific. He gets the ball at his feet, and instead of clearing it, he just tries to deflect it. And it falls right onto the feet of an Arsenal player. Then the second goal, aw... It is better forgotten.

LVG spoke about fatigue. Come on. All 4 teams had the same match schedules during the past few weeks. As a manager, you dont put that idea into the heads of the players. Dont remember if Fergie ever made such stupid statements. The team was fatigued even before the match started.

 

[Sb_16]

A team of pussies with strap-ons caught us with our pants down. They were very good technically. It was not the sort of action I like to watch.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I said that Arsenal start games with frightening pace and if we take time to crank up the match will be over soon. People called me naive, negative and moaning etc etc. Some even said Arsenal are way below our standards. And LvG's teams are always super smart against big teams.

Post match what I gathered

- We have no answer for such pace and hunger from opposition. We tend to start slowly, try to control possession and then start attacking. If we repeat such behaviour, City and Leicester will kill the game very early.
- We don't really have a plan B (other than hoof ball to Fellaini). The opposition just needs to have pace and have the sole intention to rob the ball off our feet with pace.
- Rooney, Memphis need to genuinely up their game and quickly.
- Our players need to be much more motivated and hungrier than most other teams.
- The myth that LvG has some master philosophy for big matches has been busted.

I desperately looked for positives. And except for Martial's shot, there were not much positives to take from the game. We did decently in 2nd half. I dont think we tried to best of our efforts, but still tried to create stuff. Let us see how the team reacts. Too bad the international break comes now. I would have liked the team to take out our frustration on Everton.

 

[Hamadovich86]

I started watching in the 7th minute and we were already 2 down in what can only be described as a total defensive breakdown. One major issue is that our defenders couldnt cope with the sheer pace that Arsenal have upfront. Darmian struggled against Alexis and the fact that Mata is too slow to help out defensively does not help. Young was lost in a role he is not well suited for. Blind was destroyed by Walcot in the set up for the second goal he cant handle that pace alone.

The second big problem was LVG's midfield selection, I dont like the combination of Basti/Carrick, it can work for lesser team where we want to boss the midfield through out passing the opponent but I much rather have Schneiderlin in there, he gives us an aggressive physical presence in the middle.

Lastly we dont have true game changers on the bench, personally I liked the effort and the heart that Fellaini played with but hes a limited player.

I think LVG will think long and hard about this game and I would not be surprised if we see a change in personnel and/or formation when we face Everton in two weeks.

 

[Lawman]

I started watching in the 7th minute and we were already 2 down in what can only be described as a total defensive breakdown. One major issue is that our defenders couldnt cope with the sheer pace that Arsenal have upfront. Darmian struggled against Alexis and the fact that Mata is too slow to help out defensively does not help. Young was lost in a role he is not well suited for. Blind was destroyed by Walcot in the set up for the second goal he cant handle that pace alone.

The second big problem was LVG's midfield selection, I dont like the combination of Basti/Carrick, it can work for lesser team where we want to boss the midfield through out passing the opponent but I much rather have Schneiderlin in there, he gives us an aggressive physical presence in the middle.

Lastly we dont have true game changers on the bench, personally I liked the effort and the heart that Fellaini played with but hes a limited player.

I think LVG will think long and hard about this game and I would not be surprised if we see a change in personnel and/or formation when we face Everton in two weeks.

Yep good points personally I think we set up wrongly to start with. When going away to Arsenal we should be tight and compact. For me Rooney should have started left and Morgan or Herrera should have given us the extra man in beside Carrick and Bastian. Depay looks shot and needs taken out the team for over a month now so it's not hindsight kicking in and you don't go toe to toe with Arsenal as you have no chance at beating them at their game, but every chance of beating them ugly and physical. Also would have preferred Valencia to have started and Darmain left back but given Valencia had a shocker I can understand that decision.

 

[fan1996]

Blind has been AWOL since he was moved out to LB to cover for Shaw. Coming back into CB he's now always out of position.

Rooney was horrendous again, so called captain and i didnt see him trying to get at our players and amp them up at all. Last 15 mins he put abit of effort in but all it came to was charging into groups of arsenal players. Even Fellaini put Rooney's close control to shame and that's just pitiful.

Mata and Martial looked again like they are dying to have a decent No.10 to play with.

Based on LVG's post match comments, we will have to watch Rooney playing football, if that is what you call it, a few more games before he can be even considered getting dropped.

I think we can do so much better with our attack if our current no.10 and no.7 get dropped, much of our success earlier was down to the solid defence (not in this game though). Depay has been very wasteful I prefer Young to play on that side of the wing. He did great last season and there should not be any reason for LVG not to play him again. Depay seriously needs to get this straight he is no Messi FFS and should not try to dribble past everyone.

 

[#07]

I have just about recovered from the shock of what happened yesterday.

United were blown away. The game was over within 10 minutes, and Alexis' second goal just put the icing on the cake. I can't remember watching a United game in which we were beaten so early. The rest of the game was Arsenal humouring us. We did not come back into it. Arsenal just saved energy and tried to score on the counter by giving us the ball, which they nearly did through Oxlade-Chamberlin and Giroud. It could have been much worse than it was.

Hopefully we will start our next game with Jones and Smalling at centre back, and Blind at left back. We need defenders doing the defending. The Young and Valencia experiments did not work, although Darmian did not cover himself in glory either.

Carrick and Schweinsteiger are far too slow to play in centre midfield together. Arsenal got to every second ball. Carrick and Schweinsteiger could not keep up with them. They got caught ahead of the ball over and over and over. It was crazy to start with such an immobile midfield against a team with Alexis and Theo.

We had no real attack to speak of besides Martial. Nobody else really looked like anything. No pressing from the front, no real quality either.

 

[Dr Fink]

The game was lost initially with an overall lethargic start coupled with the fact that Schweinsteiger was all over the place positionally. Far too high up the pitch and continued to do it all of the first half. we were lucky to get away with three. Extremely naive of him considering his experience. Huge gaps behind him, leaving Carrick chasing shadows and the defence overly exposed. The lack of instruction from LVG as the first half nightmare continued, was evident. FFS - tell them where it's going wrong and re-arrange the shape. "Bastie - hold your position, let the front two do the closing down!"

Big negatives: Memphis is way, way, off the pace and didn't put the effort in, bench him. Darmian had a shocker.
One positive: Martial looks the real deal.

 

[fan1996]

The game was lost initially with an overall lethargic start coupled with the fact that Schweinsteiger was all over the place positionally. Far too high up the pitch and continued to do it all of the first half. we were lucky to get away with three. Extremely naive of him considering his experience. Huge gaps behind him, leaving Carrick chasing shadows and the defence overly exposed. The lack of instruction from LVG as the first half nightmare continued, was evident. FFS - tell them where it's going wrong and re-arrange the shape. "Bastie - hold your position, let the front two do the closing down!"

Big negatives: Memphis is way, way, off the pace and didn't put the effort in, bench him. Darmian had a shocker.
One positive: Martial looks the real deal.

I don't think Bastian was the issue. The game was basically over in the 6th minute after horrendous errors from the back 4, especially the 02 fullbacks. Bastian was running around trying to get the ball back whereas most of the rest were just standing and watching.

 

[Question234]

have a slight feeling this will push us back to a 352.

I've never seen us carved open so easily under LVG but as soon as i saw no Schneiderlin I knew it was going to happen. Very concerning mistake from him as i pride him on his big game focus and tactical skills yet I've never seen him get it more wrong since he has been here.

The exact same thing happened last year when we played them, with a worse team. Only this time they took their chances. LVG was naive.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Any reason why Schneiderlin is not the automatic name on the team sheet?

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Any reason why Schneiderlin is not the automatic name on the team sheet?

Probably because he has been poor the,last 2 games.

 

[Question234]

Probably because he has been poor the,last 2 games.

*last game

either way dropping him for this game was a huge mistake, they ran threw our midfield and a physical presence was so badly needed.

 

[fan1996]

*last game

either way dropping him for this game was a huge mistake, they ran threw our midfield and a physical presence was so badly needed.

Agree.

Since Shaw injury we have been constantly facing problem with the back 4. A proper DM in front of the defence is vital atm. Here is what I like to see with the next line-up:
---------------------DDG--------------------
Valencia-----Smalling-----Jones-----Blind
-----------------Schneiderlin----------------
-----------Bastian---------Herrera----------
Mata-------------Martial------------Rooney

I like to drop Rooney but it will not yet happen until the next maybe 4 matches, so let move him to the left to reduce his involvement with the ball a bit

 

[devilish]

These games are good in a way because it exposes the cracks. Its evident that

a- a defense shouldnt be 50% made of midfielders
b- we're slow in midfield. Carrick-Bastian shouldn't play together. EVER
c- The likes of Rooney, Fellaini, Valencia, Young etc aren't United level

 

[devilish]

Agree.

Since Shaw injury we have been constantly facing problem with the back 4. A proper DM in front of the defence is vital atm. Here is what I like to see with the next line-up:
---------------------DDG--------------------
Valencia-----Smalling-----Jones-----Blind
-----------------Schneiderlin----------------
-----------Bastian---------Herrera----------
Mata-------------Martial------------Rooney

I like to drop Rooney but it will not yet happen until the next maybe 4 matches, so let move him to the left to reduce his involvement with the ball a bit

Valencia shouldn't play ahead of Darmian ever

 

[fan1996]

Valencia shouldn't play ahead of Darmian ever

Because Darmian has been so much better than Valencia?

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Truth to be told even though we were top of the league until yesterday and won our CL game against Wolfsburg our style has been far from convincing.
Arsenal revealed our weak points in a brutal way but we all knew we are far from our best.

Martial is our only convincing attacking player. Mata shows glimpses of his talent but is not consistent enough.
Depay is a disappointment so far. I know "he is young and needs time" etc. and he should get the time. However, by now we should see more improvement. He started most of the games.
Rooney is back playing as 10 which never suited him. Assumed that Martial keeps playing as 9 I do not see how to fit in Rooney in the starting line-up.
Carrick and Schweini are an awful midfield duo. Carrick should not be more than a back-up option. We need to give Herrera and Schneiderlin a run of games.
The injury of Shaw is a bigger desaster than I feared. Our defense is a bit of a mess since then.

A positive aspect is that despite not playing well we are still in good positions for the league and the CL.

 

[devilish]

Because Darmian has been so much better than Valencia?

Darmian is a right back with years of experience in playing in that role. Valencia is being played there because he's too shit to play as a winger. This sort of mentality is what keeping us from being serious title and CL contenders. If we need a RB to cover/compete with Darmian than we should buy one. Same things go with CB, LB and the flanks.

I also can't blame Darmian for yesterday's game. The defense and midfield was simply inadequate to counter Arsenal. Carrick-Bastian are too slow, Mata is not a winger and the defense was 50% made up of frigging midfielders. You cant expect to beat Arsenal with a makeshift team whose got midfielders in the flanks and defense and wingers as fullbacks

 

[Mr Anderson]

We played into arsenals hands. Bastian caught high up the pitch, Memphis not tracking back, Mata couldn't get back to help out Darmian.

That left Carrick and our back 4 vs Arsenals pacey front 3/4. The space we had to cover with those running at us and also Sanchez turning Darmian inside out, we just threw the game away.

Rooney as a captain and/or leader was non existent. Really disappointed in him the last few games, whimpered through the last 20minutes against Wolfsburg too so he did. His touch is still inconsistent, passing is also messy. I think he needs to be given a game or 2 off along with Memphis. Both not contributing and causing us issues. In fairness Memphis just needs protecting now and to be integrated slower so he can develop. Rooney is just shite currently.

Morgan should have started too. It was a game for him with Arsenals pace in attack through the middle and flanks. Morgan covers a lot of ground and screens us well.

Argument to throw in Jones also. He has pace, has a few minutes behind him and is an actual centre back...

I would have taken a draw yesterday even before kick off. Tough run of games coming up after the international break.

 

[Question234]

Arsenal didn't expose anything.

If your dumb enough to go to the emirets and play a slow midfield with no physical presence then you're going to get fecked up. Simple as.

If you're going to play blind in CB becuase of his distribution, ability to bring the ball out and anticipation, then you need to play midfield that can protect him or else he'll get exposed. Simple as

Arsenal took their chances today so well played to them but LVG fecked us over with the line up and game plan. The game was over before it started. Simple as.

 

[Speedicut75]

Because Darmian has been so much better than Valencia?

Darmian is a dedicated RB, who's had a couple of dodgy performances, whereas Tony V is a winger who, when played as a makeshift full back, has looked barley adequate at best.
I appreciate that football is a matter of opinion, but Valencia's lack of positional awareness alone should exclude him from being considered a starter in this position.
Perhaps LVG should have kept Rafael on the pay roll? He certainly would have more to offer as a replacement option than Tony.

 

[fan1996]

Darmian is a dedicated RB, who's had a couple of dodgy performances, whereas Tony V is a winger who, when played as a makeshift full back, has looked barley adequate at best.
I appreciate that football is a matter of opinion, but Valencia's lack of positional awareness alone should exclude him from being considered a starter in this position.
Perhaps LVG should have kept Rafael on the pay roll? He certainly would have more to offer as a replacement option than Tony.

That is what I said repeatedly in the newb before joining this main forum. Rafael is at least on par with Valencia defensively while being more creative in attack. If he can stay fit he will always be a strong competition to Darmian at the right back role. We can also keep Valencia as back up for right winger Mata, who sometimes can be ineffective at either running down the wing nor drifting inside

 

[Lastwolf]

He's injured at the moment anyway. I loved Rafael but you couldn't rely on him to be fit 10 games in a row

 

[devilish]

Arsenal didn't expose anything.

If your dumb enough to go to the emirets and play a slow midfield with no physical presence then you're going to get fecked up. Simple as.

If you're going to play blind in CB becuase of his distribution, ability to bring the ball out and anticipation, then you need to play midfield that can protect him or else he'll get exposed. Simple as

Arsenal took their chances today so well played to them but LVG fecked us over with the line up and game plan. The game was over before it started. Simple as.

We shouldnt play a midfielder in defense because of his distribution etc. We should bring a CB capable of doing that. Same as Young-Valencia as fullbacks. We're not a non league club FFS.

These players had been trained in their roles since they were probably children. Their instinct had been moulded in acting the way they do, changing them to the core. Do you think that a winger can suddenly play as a fullback and stop the likes of Sanchez, Messi and co just because LVG had revealed their philosophy to them?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Darmian is a right back with years of experience in playing in that role. Valencia is being played there because he's too shit to play as a winger. This sort of mentality is what keeping us from being serious title and CL contenders. If we need a RB to cover/compete with Darmian than we should buy one. Same things go with CB, LB and the flanks.

I also can't blame Darmian for yesterday's game. The defense and midfield was simply inadequate to counter Arsenal. Carrick-Bastian are too slow, Mata is not a winger and the defense was 50% made up of frigging midfielders. You cant expect to beat Arsenal with a makeshift team whose got midfielders in the flanks and defense and wingers as fullbacks

Doesn't this sound hauntingly like last season. We thought we had solved a majority of the problems but likely in the process have created different problems.

 

[devilish]

Doesn't this sound hauntingly like last season. We thought we had solved a majority of the problems but likely in the process have created different problems.

I've been saying it for the past 2 years and I'll repeat it again this year. LVG is underestimating the defence issue. You don't sort our defence problem by signing a squad player (Rojo) and expect wingers and midfielders to step up in a role which isn't theirs. The issue is much bigger than that.

TBF I sympathise with him since he had inherited an unbalanced side which lacks quality both at first team level and in terms of quality strength in depth. However I'd rather see us play youths in their natural role than have players playing out of position. At least they will learn something of it.

 

[SirBobbysCombover]

Darmian is a dedicated RB, who's had a couple of dodgy performances, whereas Tony V is a winger who, when played as a makeshift full back, has looked barley adequate at best.
I appreciate that football is a matter of opinion, but Valencia's lack of positional awareness alone should exclude him from being considered a starter in this position.
Perhaps LVG should have kept Rafael on the pay roll? He certainly would have more to offer as a replacement option than Tony.

Watching him in the flesh yesterday I thought to myself, is this Darmian lad united quality?

He got torn apart over and over and booked for a silly foul, looked out of place from the first whistle, granted his team mates didnt help him out that much but I expected him to be more solid when backtracking.

Once Tony V entered the fray he looked far more composed than Matteo, I disagree massively with your opinion and would start Tony V next game at right back.

The Rafael comment in my eyes is just daft, he was more of a liability than Tony and Matteo moulded into one.

What I cant get my head around is the new fashion as wingers as full backs, its almost as if the art of defending is being lost for good, Bellerin for the Arse was superb though, surely off to Spain if he carries on at this rate.