[simonhch]

fecking drama queens are out in force again today. Get a grip ladies. I remember losing 0-2 to Coventry at OT in 2007, and 1-2 to Palace at OT under Fergie in the Carling Cup. Shit happens. Juve lost to Sassualo today, Barca got held 0-0 by a third tier team in the Copa Del Rey, Chelsea went out on pens, Arsenal got tonked 3-0 by Sheff Wed. This same Middlesbrough team gave City a spanking at the Emptihad last season in a more prestigious tournament. Cup football is just a different beast.

We've been largely pretty good this season, and look infinitely more solid than we did last year and the year before. LVG has his faults but we are far better off than when he arrived; and no-one should underestimate the scale of the overhaul he has performed so far. I have no doubt he is aware of remaining deficiencies and am sure before long those will be addressed. People need to be realistic and show some patience.

Boro played their heart out. We easily could've, and should've won this game. But it's hardly a barometer of where we are as a club and a team. The contrasting critiques of Martial and Depay is a real concern. Both are very big talents. Depay is going through a difficult period, but the typical know-it-alls, who no doubt will be back as his biggest fans if he develops well, are on his back in sickening fashion. Seen it happen with so many young players here. It happened to Ronaldo ffs. The worst one was Fletcher, who just got down right abused. For young players to get better they have to try things, they have to play, and they have to make mistakes. It's hard. If it was easy, everyone would bring them through...after all it's a lot cheaper than buying ready made stars.

Martial on the other hand, has been great so far. But the hype machine is out of control. He'll have a difficult period, it's guaranteed, and the same vultures will be out calling him shit and asking for him to be dropped. Just wait and see. People need to get some fecking perspective and stop this endless demand for instant gratification. If the team isn't playing like 2010 Barcelona or 1970 Brazil, people call it shit zombie football. We all remember the great United teams of the last 60 years, because they were special and unique. They couldn't be like that every year, and sometimes there were big gaps between the great sides. I see that LVG is trying to build something here and the fruits of his labour we may not see until he is gone; but for feck's sake, it would be nice if some of the fans could at least be just a little bit fecking tolerable during the process.

 

[marlowe78]

I just finished watching this on a stream.

This result was ridiculous. We had chances and Lingard had bad luck in hitting the frame but this looked like another match where we could've played for a week and never scored. The penalties were a disgrace and recalled when we went out against Sunderland under Moyes.

To those of you saying this was just a League Cup match, please stop. This isn't the first or second time we've had this kind of performance under LVG. This fits a pattern that has continued in most of the games we've played under him. We have no incision when we get into the opponent's third of the pitch and Martial looks like the only player who can get behind. It often looks like we don't even practice trying to create inside of the box, all we do is flip in crosses or walk into bodies and lose control of the ball.

For 200 million (or whatever our players cost), we should be expecting much more than going out on penalties against Middlesbrough. This was the kind of thing that got Moyes slaughtered in this forum and I don't see why LVG shouldn't be held to the same standard. His year and a half on the job has been filled with these hiccups and I don't see an end to them anytime soon.

 

[Kakeru]

Boro played their heart out.

In any discipline that involves team sports, the component named "playing with heart" is always crucial for winning tight matches. Isn't that important for our players to play with some heart as well? I'm asking the question because players who don't play with heart in any discipline should find themselves a different job.

 

[kouroux]

Just woke up to see the penalty shootout result (I decided to sleep just before them) and I'm not surprised one bit. If we were to lose, I'd have preferred a less energy consuming defeat. These shock results always happen every year in either domestic cups but it still doesn't mean they're acceptable.

 

[Maradona10]

I think we played well snd were very unlucky. Should have had 2 pens, should have scored 8 by the chances we created. It was like football gods dint want us to win. No need for an overreaction, we were better and still lost i guess thats football for you.

 

[nick2004]

I think we played well snd were very unlucky. Should have had 2 pens, should have scored 8 by the chances we created. It was like football gods dint want us to win. No need for an overreaction, we were better and still lost i guess thats football for you.

I don't agree with this. I think the other team did score one goal and had the better chances. We were awful in this game.

 

[Insanity]

Any idea why Phil Jones didn't even make the bench and Wilson was substituted after 45 minutes? Injured?

 

[Green_Red]

Tonight's performance is symptomatic of the whole LVG tenure. So I don't want to hear shit with that excuse, and I don't give a shit. The way we play is totally unacceptable, especially with the older guys on the side.

is this a real response? It has a touch of this about it...

 

[Golden Nugget]

Once again, a lot of possession in the first half with absolutely nothing to show for it. Boro didn't care we that we had all that possession as they knew we'd do nothing with it - we proved them right and they're a championship side.

There were two periods that we attacked with intent to score - the end of the second half and the end of the second half of extra time. I seriously don't know why we don't try to attack earlier.

Memphis was horrible once again - much worse than Rooney. Expected big things from him this game as a chance to redeem himself - he did absolutely nothing except lose the ball.

Felt for Wilson - he had absolutely nothing and it looked like he cared. Getting dragged at half time must do his confidence no good.

3 penalty shout, on was really clear. Mind you, Rooney would have taken it and missed. I think everyone knew he was going to miss the moment he stepped up for the first one.

Pereira and Martial unlucky not to score - Martials header took a very weird bounce. You can blame Fellaini all you want but at least he tried and got his header to them.

The longer the match went on, the more I was worrying about Smalling. We need to keep him fit and can't afford and injury to him.

 

[Rake]

We had some abmyssal performances in the LC under SAF too... It is not the end of the world really. I`m glad some players got a rest it is important to win against Palace.

A lot of people were suggesting this is the game to play Rooney but he was so sh*t again... Really needs to be dropped. Depay looks half the player he was supposed to be.

Unlucky for Lingard to hit the bar again.

 

[finneh]

Truth be told although we were shite we should have still won 4 or 5-0. The ref completely bottled 2 penalties, one of which was a complete stone waller. Martial missed a sitter, Fellaini missed a great chance, Perreira should have scored his chance and Lingard hit the bar.

Van Gaal was really poor though. To select Fellaini and Carrick in central midfield is a recipe for disaster with their lack of mobility. To keep them both on for 2 hours... Even more so. It was a game crying out for Herrera, who hasn't played a great deal of Football this year. Likewise bringing our worst player this year on to change the game was stupid.

Van Gaals biggest weskness in my opinion is his substitutions... Has he ever changed a game really positively with them? Possibly once or twice.

 

[crossy1686]

Are we clearing out the people our current manager signed then?

If they're not good enough or were panic buys because the players we really wanted weren't available, then yes.

 

[Wumminator]

Truth be told although we were shite we should have still won 4 or 5-0. The ref completely bottled 2 penalties, one of which was a complete stone waller. Martial missed a sitter, Fellaini missed a great chance, Perreira should have scored his chance and Lingard hit the bar.

Depay missed a chance one on one... Smalling flicked a great Ashley Young cross wide... Fellaini shoudl have left it at the end...

 

[Insanity]

Truth be told although we were shite we should have still won 4 or 5-0. The ref completely bottled 2 penalties, one of which was a complete stone waller. Martial missed a sitter, Fellaini missed a great chance, Perreira should have scored his chance and Lingard hit the bar.

Friend had the best chance in the first half; he should have scored from that range. Leadbitter really should have dinked the ball either side of Romero. Downing hit a cracking shot; a cm or two either side, and that would have been a goal. Kike fluffed a couple of chances. Boro should can count themselves unlucky that the Romero's feck up just missed the goal. These are just ones that I can remember on top of my head. There were a couple of other instances when they went close.

Truth be told, Boro could have won this 4 or 5-0 too.

 

[Catt]

We created some good chances and should have scored. The last chance from Martial was telling for our night, the ball just went the wrong way. A couple of handballs that should have been penalties also. Overall, I was happy with what I saw tonight from us, and Boro were very very good defensively.

First half was awful but towards the end we started to show some urgency and with a little luck would have scored. I want us to start the games a bit more on the front foot as we seem to take a while to get going in matches. I don't think we've been rubbish all season and at times I like how we play but, it tend to be very slow and laboured at times and especially in the 1st halves.

 

[XdanielredX]

 

[Smores]

I love the comments after most bad games from some people...."well erm we were shit in 1752 once as well, these things happen."

 

[Wumminator]

I love the comments after most bad games from some people...."well erm we were shit in 1752 once as well, these things happen."

It's important to remember we've had results like this more often than not over the years.

 

[Insanity]

I love the comments after most bad games from some people...."well erm we were shit in 1752 once as well, these things happen."

It's amazing.

"We lost to Coventry once upon a time, so it was perfectly alright to play like shit and lose to Boro at home yesterday".
"Fergie played shit football in the last couple of years of his reign. Accept the shit football played now"

The best of the lot:

"No team in the league plays good football for more than 5-6 games in an entire season"


Some cracking logic.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It was a makeshift starting eleven to give playing time to as many fringe players as possible. We still had chances to win the game and Boro were always going to get some chances on the break mostly thanks to Carrick's lack of presence in midfield - again. I was annoyed when we lost the game, but seeing some of the reactions on here I'm starting to wonder whether some people are taking the piss.

Thought Fellaini was good, although I don't think he even has a position for us. Showed some great touches and close control.

Carrick and Rooney's shitness this season is not exactly news as well. Memphis is starting to get into their category, which is a shame.

Isn't that a bit of a worry that we don't actually know what to do with the lad. Out of the ones I listed he is the least of our worries. He can be useful.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

fecking drama queens are out in force again today. Get a grip ladies. I remember losing 0-2 to Coventry at OT in 2007, and 1-2 to Palace at OT under Fergie in the Carling Cup. Shit happens. Juve lost to Sassualo today, Barca got held 0-0 by a third tier team in the Copa Del Rey, Chelsea went out on pens, Arsenal got tonked 3-0 by Sheff Wed. This same Middlesbrough team gave City a spanking at the Emptihad last season in a more prestigious tournament. Cup football is just a different beast.

We've been largely pretty good this season, and look infinitely more solid than we did last year and the year before. LVG has his faults but we are far better off than when he arrived; and no-one should underestimate the scale of the overhaul he has performed so far. I have no doubt he is aware of remaining deficiencies and am sure before long those will be addressed. People need to be realistic and show some patience.

Boro played their heart out. We easily could've, and should've won this game. But it's hardly a barometer of where we are as a club and a team. The contrasting critiques of Martial and Depay is a real concern. Both are very big talents. Depay is going through a difficult period, but the typical know-it-alls, who no doubt will be back as his biggest fans if he develops well, are on his back in sickening fashion. Seen it happen with so many young players here. It happened to Ronaldo ffs. The worst one was Fletcher, who just got down right abused. For young players to get better they have to try things, they have to play, and they have to make mistakes. It's hard. If it was easy, everyone would bring them through...after all it's a lot cheaper than buying ready made stars.

Martial on the other hand, has been great so far. But the hype machine is out of control. He'll have a difficult period, it's guaranteed, and the same vultures will be out calling him shit and asking for him to be dropped. Just wait and see. People need to get some fecking perspective and stop this endless demand for instant gratification. If the team isn't playing like 2010 Barcelona or 1970 Brazil, people call it shit zombie football. We all remember the great United teams of the last 60 years, because they were special and unique. They couldn't be like that every year, and sometimes there were big gaps between the great sides. I see that LVG is trying to build something here and the fruits of his labour we may not see until he is gone; but for feck's sake, it would be nice if some of the fans could at least be just a little bit fecking tolerable during the process.

Yes he is building something, but until Rooney is gone we won't see the benefits.

 

[Smores]

It's important to remember we've had results like this more often than not over the years.

Not particularly.

Those matches were judged independently and whether they were part of a trend, tactical mistake or just a bad day at the office.

Putting aside any judgements on this game because we lost 10 years ago to another minnow is as ridiculous as looking at Rooneys poor games and saying well RvN had a bad game once as well.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Not particularly.

Those matches were judged independently and whether they were part of a trend, tactical mistake or just a bad day at the office.

Putting aside any judgements on this game because we lost 10 years ago to another minnow is as ridiculous as looking at Rooneys poor games and saying well RvN had a bad game once as well.

Exactly, we have always had weird results, but the form around the games has been good. We were great against Everton but a lot of the games we have been awful. Is it the players or the manager being too obsessed with his meetings. That all these meetings are doing is making the players too cautious. That he is worrying about the opposition far too much, instead of concentrating on us. Yes you have to prepare but his is almost manic about it.

 

[khoazany]

Any idea why Phil Jones didn't even make the bench and Wilson was substituted after 45 minutes? Injured?

Willo had a knock yeah.

 

[Siorac]

I think we played well snd were very unlucky. Should have had 2 pens, should have scored 8 by the chances we created. It was like football gods dint want us to win. No need for an overreaction, we were better and still lost i guess thats football for you.

Saying we played well is about as unreasonable as the 'oh my god it was an embarassment to the entire club'. This sort of performance at Old Trafford against a Championship side cannot be characterised as 'playing well'. We played shite, we got dumped out. It happens. Michael Mifsud murdered us in 2007 and we went on to win the league and the CL.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Was actually kinda gutted we lost that one - it may only be the League Cup but once you're in the last 16 it's anyone's trophy.

Had hoped to see some fringe players grasp the opportunity but it just didn't happen on the night. Fair play to Borough, they gave it everything, but we didn't put in the performance we needed.

 

[Barca84]

I gave up at half time. There I was with my perma buffering, heavily pixellated stream of what vaguely resemebled a Man United team trying to play football and I had a lightbulb moment. I suddenly realised that I didn't have to watch it if I didn't want to. Now I'm a guy who throughout the barren years, included the sleep inducing Sexton era, would refuse to leave any game until the final whistle convinced that remaining in attendance is obligatory for any proper supporter. Quite the epiphany it was to knock the laptop off and have a pleasant evening with my blood pressure now returning to a safe level and no nearby cats in further danger of a kick up the arse.

I saw enough to confirm a couple of things though. Carrick is finished and Wilson is nowhere near good enough for the first team yet.

 

[IwatUwat]

I missed the game, anyone care to summarise good player performances heard Lingard had a decent game?

Saw the missed chances, Fellaini, Martial, Lingard post, Perreira good strike. But looked like Boro also had a few chances were we a it gun ho? Rather than tight at the back?

 

[MancFanFromManc]

I took my lovely wife to watch Spectre last night. Phew! Having sat thru the derby draw, I feel like I dodged a bullet missing this one

Usual over reaction on here mind. No body cares about this cup usually, but suddenly its all sack LVG, sell Rooney again. Sigh

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I took my lovely wife to watch Spectre last night. Phew! Having sat thru the derby draw, I feel like I dodged a bullet missing this one

Usual over reaction on here mind. No body cares about this cup usually, but suddenly its all sack LVG, sell Rooney again. Sigh

It's not the cup, but it was a brilliant chance of a trophy. Do you think City won't rub it in when they waltz off with it. It was the realisation that some players last night are not good enough and Rooneys form has dropped off a cliff.

 

[mark_a]

Seemed like a good cup tie to me. Obviously I'm disappointed we lost, we did everything but score; woodwork, 2 should-have-been-penalties etc. Clearly, we should have created more & had more chances,but it was a much changed team and as such did pretty well (remember Moyes, remember MK Dons?!).

Our lack of killer instinct is irritating and when it went to penalties, I knew they'd win and boy did we have some really lame penalties (Rooney, Carrick - should be ashamed of themselves for that. Two of the most experienced heads and captains).

It was a drawn game we lost on penalties, so I'm not too bothered. But then it was a perfectly winnable game, in a perfectly winnable competition. It looks wide open now, let's hope someone can stop Klopp! So mixed emotions. I'm sure it was a good cup tie for neutrals, despite the lack of goals, it was relatively end-to-end in the second half.

So really, it's a kind of disappointment. Though god help the over-reaction on here. "Losing to minnows" it says elsewhere. Really? Championship is minnows now is it?!! Lol! Middlesborough will be pleased to hear that. Fair play to Boro, they hung in there, nearly nicked it a few times and dodged to penalty decisions.

Re: Rooney: This game didn't tell us anything we didn't already know.

 

[Dante]

I don't really care about the League Cup. I'd have celebrated winning the final about the same as I celebrate winning most Premier League games. The biggest benefit of the competition is that it allows us to blood youngsters. After Pereira's performance, I'm actually reasonably satisfied with how things have turned out overall. Hopefully this'll mean he gets more minutes in the league. Beyond that I'm nonplussed.

 

[mark_a]

I saw enough to confirm a couple of things though. Carrick is finished and Wilson is nowhere near good enough for the first team yet.

After 120 minutes, Carrick took a weaker penalty than my nan would. And she's dead.

 

[finneh]

Depay missed a chance one on one... Smalling flicked a great Ashley Young cross wide... Fellaini shoudl have left it at the end...

Very true.

Friend had the best chance in the first half; he should have scored from that range. Leadbitter really should have dinked the ball either side of Romero. Downing hit a cracking shot; a cm or two either side, and that would have been a goal. Kike fluffed a couple of chances. Boro should can count themselves unlucky that the Romero's feck up just missed the goal. These are just ones that I can remember on top of my head. There were a couple of other instances when they went close.

Truth be told, Boro could have won this 4 or 5-0 too.

I think you're exaggerating their chances a little if I'm honest. Romero's save from Downing was pretty rudimentary, it was powerful but close to him - I'd expect any Premier League keeper to make that save. Romero's ridiculous feck up can hardly be deemed a great chance and Leadbitter/Friend's chances were good opportunities but by no means were they simple chances like that of Martial, nor were they anything compared to the 2 penalties we should have had.

Truth be told if we played that game 10 times we'd have won 9 times and probably drawn once.

 

[Lewis.no.9]

After 120 minutes, Carrick took a weaker penalty than my nan would. And she's dead.

 

[pierrethesnack]

On the bright side of things...we didn't concede.

Can't we just score some goals every now and then?

 

[Striker10]

This was the newcastle lesson and it shows they've not learnt. In the first five minutes, we were passing it at the back - going forward then back and eventually we played it forward and lost it. Sometimes you have to know you are a better side and 9/10 that will be enough. When you play it so slow that you encourage them and their defenders it's stupid. There is no reason why we shouldn't have created more chances in the first half. We lost the game because of how we started and we drew with Newcastle because we let them settle.

You see what happened to Chelsea and Arsenal. It can be a lottery but Boro were wank. Seriously, the players should be ashamed of themselves. It's ok to lose a cup game if you have 30 shots and it's just not your day. It's not ok, when you stroll about the place and create next to nothing because you have absolutely no ambition or brains. We should have attacked them from the first minute and we didn't. We let them get into the game and got what we deserved.

That's what annoys me and hopefully others. It's a joke having all the ball, and yet no shots after 20 or so minutes...What a joke. All that ball and they had the best chance early on....fooballers are thick sometimes.

 

[Jammydodger7]

Why are we so bad at penalty shoot outs? our record must be nearly worse than Englands at this stage!!

 

[RustyS]

There is so much exaggeration in this thread.

First half we weren't good but from half time onwards, we were the better team and we had very good chances that we just couldn't finish. Anyone remember the game against Portsmouth? This happens.

I'm not saying it was a great performance. We needed to finish better, not make it so easy for them on the break, and obviously the penalties were laughable. It wasn't, however, a performance worthy of the reaction on here.

 

[quackattack]

So, Reading the comments i understand that about half of the "supporters" here just accepts thar United is a poor side with no consistency and class/style. Good to know, and we are suppose to compete with the likes of rm, barca and bayern. Forget it, we are happy to be in the same league as Lille, Efsbjerg and cska sofia.