I look at the options klopp has got at Liverpool, and he's got more out of that lot in the times he's been at Liverpool, than the entire time VG has had at United. Scary to think what klopp could do with our front players. Even at Chelsea's lowest point, would we be able to rip Chelsea apart under VG? This idea we must have better attacking options which is true, but there is enough talent to be doing far more than what we are seeing
Louis Van Gaal | 2015-16 Performance Thread
- Thread starter Nighteyes
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I look at the options klopp has got at Liverpool, and he's got more out of that lot in the times he's been at Liverpool, than the entire time VG has had at United. Scary to think what klopp could do with our front players. Even at Chelsea's lowest point, would we be able to rip Chelsea apart under VG? This idea we must have better attacking options which is true, but there is enough talent to be doing far more than what we are seeing
Only in one game and we also beat City convincingly last season with arguably a weaker team. With Klopp in charge we'd score more but let in more. We need a balance to Van Gaal's careful system.
I Think this is the best thread to post this. Rio has a say and i dont agree with his talk about our midfielders. I do agree with him saying about winning first.
So Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin are not Paul Scholes?
Shocking claims by Rio right there. After all his surname (coincidentally?!) starts with Sch as well.
Shocking claims by Rio right there. After all his surname (coincidentally?!) starts with Sch as well.
Rio is spot on.
Of course, both BFS and Schneiderlin have looked much more of a threat (especially Bastian) in previous season, at different clubs.
Of course, both BFS and Schneiderlin have looked much more of a threat (especially Bastian) in previous season, at different clubs.
Here's how I would rank my preferences:
1- Results and style -For the better part of Fergie's reign we had both. If you had a magic wand you'd make it so. I suspect I'm no different to anyone else in this regard.
2- Here's where we all start to diverge. If you can't have both, I'd rather good results, relative to the strength of the team, than any sort of style. The idea of losing in style reeks to me of sour grapish rationalisation of the kind we've been used to hearing from Arsenal.
3- If you can't have results, then you'd obviously want to at least under-perform in an aesthetically pleasing way.
4- Finally, Moyes era is a fresh wound that reminds us that even fans who are as privileged as we are, can still end up being served the worst of both worlds on a weekly basis.
As long as Van Gaal remains in category 2, I can't bring myself to contribute to the sort of crybaby whinging that's snowballing out of all proportion in here.
1- Results and style -For the better part of Fergie's reign we had both. If you had a magic wand you'd make it so. I suspect I'm no different to anyone else in this regard.
2- Here's where we all start to diverge. If you can't have both, I'd rather good results, relative to the strength of the team, than any sort of style. The idea of losing in style reeks to me of sour grapish rationalisation of the kind we've been used to hearing from Arsenal.
3- If you can't have results, then you'd obviously want to at least under-perform in an aesthetically pleasing way.
4- Finally, Moyes era is a fresh wound that reminds us that even fans who are as privileged as we are, can still end up being served the worst of both worlds on a weekly basis.
As long as Van Gaal remains in category 2, I can't bring myself to contribute to the sort of crybaby whinging that's snowballing out of all proportion in here.
1) style v substance - i'd like both , like we should have after 200m in spending and the selling of players LVG thought surplus to his needs.
2) if i had to choose one i'd go with style , i don't win a medal at the end of the season. it's purely entertainment for me. for some others it's to run around telling people "we won" for a year. man that's sad.
3) we've gone arsenal if 4th is the quest. too many thinking 4th is ok.
right now we are 2nd in the table. which is mind boggling. behind LC of all teams. thinking of where we'd be if we scored goals. the football is unwatchable at the moment and the thought of LVG with the checkbook scares me.
2) if i had to choose one i'd go with style , i don't win a medal at the end of the season. it's purely entertainment for me. for some others it's to run around telling people "we won" for a year. man that's sad.
3) we've gone arsenal if 4th is the quest. too many thinking 4th is ok.
right now we are 2nd in the table. which is mind boggling. behind LC of all teams. thinking of where we'd be if we scored goals. the football is unwatchable at the moment and the thought of LVG with the checkbook scares me.
A question related to this: How many of the players that we currently have that LVG signed would you have rather we hadn't signed?
This post sums up my thoughts perfectly, it is the most rational stance to take regarding utd atm. No.2 rings the biggest fecking bell, I haven't been on the caf for years but as a fanbase we've spent the last 5-6 years of the fergie reign mocking arsenal as a club for prioritising style over results and not being able to grind. Now everyweek posters pop up saying something like "win lose or draw I don't care I just want to be entertained that's the united way" and that's bulls*it. It has always been about winning.
lol you just don't get it. This one lines says it all. you can't build a side from scratch in one season regardless of how much you spent. If he had added 200m worth of talent to a squad with a established spine then we could talk about wasting money.
We tore City apart last season, and they were much better than the Chelsea team that Liverpool beat.
sssh you're not aloud to remember when we win, come on now you know the drill.
Jesus Christ
Can someone point this out to LVG?
He doesn't care.
including ADM and falcao who are now gone , i'd say rojo is one that is just not a united player and under LVG i'd say memphis and herrera. and the players we've sold without proper replacements lined up. if he stays he'll spend another 100m fixing the attack. he buts players and plays them out of position or doesn't know how to use them.
3 windows and 200m and it looks like the squad is still 100m short in areas. we are boring and if this were city or chelsea we'd be pissin' ourselves laughing at at him. we look at jose's teams and style and say "i wouldn't want that at united" well we got it.
city added 150m worth of talent to arguably the best spine in the league and they have been piped 4-1 by Liverpool at home and spurs at the lane.
Again it isn't just about money. Besides are you forgetting the amount of money Chelsea and city spent before they won their first titles ?
You need to look up the word "context"
No one is denying we destroyed city, it was great, but have we kicked on and looked like a team that could play to that level? not really and we failed to beat city again, who look like a team who's cycle is coming to an end. In a weird way could we say! have we built and moved forward since ripping city apart? yes and no. We look at our position in the league, we are 2nd to Leicester city, how can we not be happy? is that progress on paper? Christ yes it is, we are in a position to win a PL title, 2 years after the moyes catastrophe
But? has a team do we look like a team that is progressing? again its yes and no, there is quality in the squad, why isn't it ticking? injury's are not helping our cause, not solved the rooney problem, we look incredibly light at the back if smalling gets injured, and individuals are not really grabbing games by the balls apart from martial in certain games, we are just dithering through games, doing just enough and we some how kept DDG, so we have had some luck in the summer window. So this season is always going to be, 2 steps forward, and at times 3 back.
The biggest disappointment for me, is Europe. Many have hyped VG's possession game, but the fruits of this style have not payed off in Europe this season, will it pay off next season? we will see, but Europe has been a bit of a let down considering our style of play I thought would be very interesting in CL football, seems its more one step forward 2 back. This team seems built to dominate, but we are still waiting for it to click
Rojo is a solid signing. He plays well enough and has been a good option for us at LB and CB during injuries.
Which player he bought he has played out of position? Maybe Di Maria once or twice when he was looking for our best formation and played him upfront trying like robben for Holland. He gave it up immediately too. Did he play Blind,Shaw,Morgan,Rojo,Falcao, martial, Herrera, Bastian, Memphis darmian and all in positions they haven't played before ?
Let's not forget that Herrera had his best season in terms of output in goals and assists last year.
I would not mind the old Mourinho team of 2004-06, not amazing to watch, but damn almost unbeatable and unbreakable, if chelsea scored first the match is over. That kind of united with that winning mentality, and knowing how to change games having a plan A and B is what I would like at united. What we are seeing is a team just getting by making it hard for themselves, not exciting to watch, but they can be beat if teams get at them. When I watch united its not a team that says, how are we going to stop them? no individual stands out in that team, its all very one paced either too scared to do anything special, or we just do not have that type of player
Have you not seen the change in our defence since he took over? He's done a great job on that side.
jesus the irony.
How is it the irony? chelsea of 2004-06 were not great to watch, but they knew how to win and they would score goals, and they were convincing which we are not
i would , i can only think of one time , right after fergie. he's organized but that's about it. don't like that kind of football. united , under fergie would be winning and he'd bring on a striker for a striker. it was just fun watching. you didn't want to miss what may happen. now we play that jose kind of football without the goals.
you would not want a dominating united team like what mourinho brought to chelsea in his first run, that was a scary Chelsea team that was not only well organized, well coached and had a cutting edge, and was that close to winning a treble. If we could get that from united, I would be very happy. Lets not forget in the 2007-08 season, how many 1-0 wins did that team rack up? and that was the same team that saw one of the greatest players to put on the red shirt in ronaldo. We all want amazing winning football, but if someone said we could be has efficient has the chelsea team of 04-06 I would take that, because they combined winning trophy's with an efficient style that was unbeatable for 2 straight season's
nope - rather the teams fergie had that were more fun to watch. again i get no trophy or medal just enjoyment in watching. so again no thanks.
Despite him saying that we need more quick and creative players constantly.
He's not an idiot, when he was banging on about how good our defence was last year he didn't mean it either and he proved it by buying players that actually made our defence as good as he said it was. He's going to do the same here.
A lot of what Van Gaal has said recently is really interesting given his history as a coach who liked to play attacking football, and just putting big emphasis on the need for entertaining the fans.
eg. From the previous page:
So according to Lahm, Bayern were too open towards the end of Louis' tenure because they were a bit gung ho and committed a lot of men forward given the attacking playing style. Which left them vulnerable at the back = losses, which eventually meant no silverware which can be unacceptable at a club like Bayern.
Reads like the polar opposite of what's happening at United. We don't look particularly vulnerable at the back, but we're not committing too many men forward given the pragmatic playing style. And we could be in contention for silverware because like Van Gaal pointed out, from a statistical standpoint we're still second in the League and in the Champions League group.
Seems like a part of him is still haunted by the ghost of Bayern, and he's altered his ideology to overcome some of the problems his teams faced in the past. Quite tellingly, he often repeats the need for winning silverware, which is the ultimate aim for a club like United (analogous to Bayern). Even at United, a few of the early games were quite entertaining. We lost to Swansea and drew a couple of games, but the squad was depleted. Then we got a few players back and hammered West Ham before playing arguably the most entertaining first half of Van Gaal's tenure vs Leicester with Di Maria surging forward from the midfield. Then the collapse happened, and it doesn't look like Louis has recovered from the setback. We've been looking for balance ever since; and even for the 4-3-3 with Herrera and Fellaini that served us well in March and April, the 3-0 defeat to Everton might have been the final nail in the coffin.
eg. From the previous page:
vs.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11890/6873523/lahm-voiced-van-gaal-concerns
So according to Lahm, Bayern were too open towards the end of Louis' tenure because they were a bit gung ho and committed a lot of men forward given the attacking playing style. Which left them vulnerable at the back = losses, which eventually meant no silverware which can be unacceptable at a club like Bayern.
Reads like the polar opposite of what's happening at United. We don't look particularly vulnerable at the back, but we're not committing too many men forward given the pragmatic playing style. And we could be in contention for silverware because like Van Gaal pointed out, from a statistical standpoint we're still second in the League and in the Champions League group.
Seems like a part of him is still haunted by the ghost of Bayern, and he's altered his ideology to overcome some of the problems his teams faced in the past. Quite tellingly, he often repeats the need for winning silverware, which is the ultimate aim for a club like United (analogous to Bayern). Even at United, a few of the early games were quite entertaining. We lost to Swansea and drew a couple of games, but the squad was depleted. Then we got a few players back and hammered West Ham before playing arguably the most entertaining first half of Van Gaal's tenure vs Leicester with Di Maria surging forward from the midfield. Then the collapse happened, and it doesn't look like Louis has recovered from the setback. We've been looking for balance ever since; and even for the 4-3-3 with Herrera and Fellaini that served us well in March and April, the 3-0 defeat to Everton might have been the final nail in the coffin.
And that is why the lion share of the blame has to be laid at the feet of the manager.
His tactics are dictating that the two central Midfielders sit deep, with their primary task being to protect the back four rather than getting forward and starting attacks.
We could be playing Maidstone United and he'd still setup like this ffs.
There must be a reason a lot of players who have high potential aren't doing well under van gaal. I'm starting to worry a bit, especially about Memphis, Januzaj, Herrera and possibly in the future Martial, who all have/had the talent to be world beaters.
Yeah I feel there are a lot of ghosts that still haunt Louis and they have too much influence on what he is doing in the present. A lot of them are from previous roles.
The way he tries to not upset key players in the dressing room and his concern about what the media are saying. He hasn't done it in a while but last year he would often stress that he has a great relationship with Woodward to the media.
I do think he's eager to do well here and he's trying hard to learn from his mistakes at previous clubs. But I think an appearance from the old Louis, to drop Rooney and deal with the fallout, might help right now.
Whatever happened to the old Louis, the one that jumped up and down and did karate kicks on the sidelines? Bring the passion back Louis!
By buying who? Our first choice defence would all be players who were here last season.
Darmian?
But not like we bought any other defenders though so not sure what hbgreg means either but I do agree that a pacy winger/wide forward (whatever people want to call it) will be needed before too long.
Maybe Big Sam can send him some printouts, after all he has two strikers with more league goals than Rooney as well.
That is really quite terrible.
Transfers will always be a combination of ins and out and LVG have not spent 200M. This may be difficult for some to believe and accept but it's doesn't change the facts.