Van gaal : United did not train before Leicester city
Louis Van Gaal | 2015-16 Performance Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Maybe if we had a deeper squad the squad would not be so exhausted.
Di Maria was a large chunk of that and he recouped quite a bit back. No one forecasted he'd be that bad. Falcao was another than bombed but looked so exciting. Others like Rojo Darmain Depay yet to prove their worth but he's had successful buys with Blind Herrera Shaw Martial Bastian and Morgan. It's not like he's wasted massive amounts of money, the squad needed investment and deadwood needed cleared (Fletcher, Anderson, Rafael, Evans, RVP, Nani, Cleverly) etc so wouldn't have really mattered who came in we needed investment to get to this level. He's actually made a lot of sensible signings for long term.
That is quite ridiculous from LVG honestly.
We actually aren't there yet. We could still mess it up against Wolfsburg and we are in no way guaranteed top 4 with so much football left to play.
People talk about how we should be looking to the rebuilding process rather than focus negatively on the style of football or what's going on pitchwise. FOr me, however, the two are linked. With the exception of a handful of games, we look more fragile on the pitch than our results might indicate. It's just my opinion, but LVG is riding his luck with the results. We don't create nearly enough and we still rely too heavily on DDG to pull us out of a ditch. IMO, it will be sooner rather than later that we start to get exposed for our impotence and our inability to play a full 90 of solid football.
He decided to trim the squad.
And if cant play Wed at home and a late Sat match, then there is something seriously wrong with the squad.
All he does is make excuses.. Does it pretty confidently though, so pulls it off more often than not.
And if cant play Wed at home and a late Sat match, then there is something seriously wrong with the squad.
All he does is make excuses.. Does it pretty confidently though, so pulls it off more often than not.
I was speaking of last season so that checks one box for him.
You could also question the training methods at United. Not the first time in the season that the players have been tired or are tired. I mean Mata basically said as much at the start of October. Plus Dortmund saying that both Kagawa and Januzaj weren't in the best shape they could be in only adds to that issue. Really hoped that things would improve in that regard, but apparently it hasn't. It's definitely something van Gaal needs to take responsibility for.
I'd be pissed if players like Ander Herrera leave United because of LVG. I'd rather LVG leave.
Oh ok fair enough then.
I really doubt Herrera will leave. he is getting his chances. Anyway people here talk about how he will be bought by Barcelona which is a bit farfetched in fairness
How much does LVG make?
This is my major axe to grind with him, why start over when it was clear that last season's 4-3-3 allowed us to dominate and create? What we needed were upgrades, on players like Young and Fellaini, and alternatives for Carrick without whom the team collapsed. We got those, though Memphis hasn't really done as well as expected, and completely turned around to formation that needs a higher calibre of attackers than the ones we had.
Blind can play Carrick's role in that formation even though it's to much lower standard and a case could be made for Bastien too but Schweinsteiger playing Fellaini's old role - he pretty much plays it given how high he normally presses and Herrera flourishes in that system. The only reason he is not playing it is because his captain does not have a natural role in it and so the whole team has to play this formation for which we do not have the necessary tools i.e an elite 10 and quality winger.
Right, I've been thinking ( that's a problem), and I've been as supportive of LVG as I can be and have often stated that we need better attackers before calling the system an inherently poor one. But what I find interesting is that every time I watch Bournemouth play I find their play lovely to watch. And they've got a bang average squad that most likely isn't premier league level! I'm constantly surprised by how good a team they are on the ball. This makes me question LVG more than I have in the past.
One reason for us failing to do that is that Eddie Howe is genuinely a great manager in the making. Which could be the case, I find his achievements so far admirable.
Another could be that LVG has decided to put more faith in the aspect of the team that he has more faith in - defence - because he was unable to get the pace and wide players in the team that he wanted, and Rooney's form.
Or of course is the worst scenario for us, which is that LVG is getting a lot less out of the attack than he should. Now I know he isn't getting as much as he should be, which can happen. But if it's something like 40% of what is possible then that's a problem.
One reason for us failing to do that is that Eddie Howe is genuinely a great manager in the making. Which could be the case, I find his achievements so far admirable.
Another could be that LVG has decided to put more faith in the aspect of the team that he has more faith in - defence - because he was unable to get the pace and wide players in the team that he wanted, and Rooney's form.
Or of course is the worst scenario for us, which is that LVG is getting a lot less out of the attack than he should. Now I know he isn't getting as much as he should be, which can happen. But if it's something like 40% of what is possible then that's a problem.
Agreed,
Though I would say, he didn't just trim the squad, he obliterated it, which is ultimately what I think will cost him his job.
Rooney can replace Carrick. We need another forward who can score.
He loves a good excuse does old Louis.
If he can't build a squad that can handle the rigorous of Wednesday/Saturday matches (you know, like every CL team has to cope with) then its entirely his fault. He wanted a small squad to work with, now he's got it, and he's complaining. Its always someone/something else s fault but his own.
France play a 4-3-3 with Martial on the left and a striker up top. If he wanted to use that formation, he could do it easily while fitting Rooney up top and Mata into the squad as well. At the moment he feels the need to use two DMs, which is rather defensive but he wants that balance.
Can't be as bad as fergie's excuse for our battering by Southampton years ago on our grey away kits?
I'm not saying we can't play better, but the state of the squad when LvG took over was just a shambles really.
We had RvP/Rooney/Falcao/Di Maria/Mata in attack, i think most of us were excited where all these huge stars would take us.
The reality was that the first 3 were declining, one got burgled/didn't want to be here and one is proving to be a bit of an luxury player.
It's sad that our attack has come to the state it is, but by next summer i think it will look much better, LvG will then be able to have a real go at the title.
I don't think it will be fantastic football in terms of style, but we will have more quality and those draws will turn into wins instead when we have the players with the individual quality to unlock defenses.
Success come first, winning a title after SAF's reign is very important, Building a winning mentality is difficult, but LvG can make it happen.
When he leaves i think we will all appreciate what he has done here, it takes some guts to sell out all deadwood, especially when some of the players we're very well liked at the Club and with the fans.
He has definitely stamped his authority, you have to say the man is a leader with belief in his own ability, that is what it takes to be a Manchester United manager.
The next manager will benefit alot from the discipline and tactical understanding being teached to our players, i think it's the perfect foundation for someone like Guardiola to take over, he could modernise the tactics and get us back to being one of the top clubs in europe.
We had RvP/Rooney/Falcao/Di Maria/Mata in attack, i think most of us were excited where all these huge stars would take us.
The reality was that the first 3 were declining, one got burgled/didn't want to be here and one is proving to be a bit of an luxury player.
It's sad that our attack has come to the state it is, but by next summer i think it will look much better, LvG will then be able to have a real go at the title.
I don't think it will be fantastic football in terms of style, but we will have more quality and those draws will turn into wins instead when we have the players with the individual quality to unlock defenses.
Success come first, winning a title after SAF's reign is very important, Building a winning mentality is difficult, but LvG can make it happen.
When he leaves i think we will all appreciate what he has done here, it takes some guts to sell out all deadwood, especially when some of the players we're very well liked at the Club and with the fans.
He has definitely stamped his authority, you have to say the man is a leader with belief in his own ability, that is what it takes to be a Manchester United manager.
The next manager will benefit alot from the discipline and tactical understanding being teached to our players, i think it's the perfect foundation for someone like Guardiola to take over, he could modernise the tactics and get us back to being one of the top clubs in europe.
I haven't seen them but I' assuming they take a lot more risks - which would also explain their position. The only problem with LvG I have is his handling of Rooney and Herrera. I honestly believe that the same style with quality attackers would be fine to watch (and produce better results of course). A lot of times moves break down because the weight on pretty simple passes is wrong, and small issues like that.
My beef is the predictable tactics and failure to adapt to different styles.
But perhaps this is the only way to build a new side froom scratch. Time will tell.
What i do know is that we need a Robben type player. Its obvious but needed badly to get back at the top.
But perhaps this is the only way to build a new side froom scratch. Time will tell.
What i do know is that we need a Robben type player. Its obvious but needed badly to get back at the top.
This is a great article: https://decorrespondent.nl/1418/6-s...tream-media-fail-to-see/125220977970-aab230c0
Also, a great photo of LVG and Bastian:
Also, a great photo of LVG and Bastian:
I don't see exactly what risks they take more than us. They just seem better at passing in tight spaces and moving the ball around fluidly. It's not as if Herrera would lose the ball receiving it in the same positions that some bang average Bournemouth player will. We've got a defence that's miles better too.
The bolded bit is precisely the issue. In the opposition half our football falls to pieces. Bad touches, wrong weight of pass, bad decision. I'm not sure it's as much to do with risk as its made out. It seems to be a cohesion issue and maybe something to do with system too but either way it's pretty poor on our part from both players and manager.
I wonder amongst the fans that want LVG out, how many were in favour of hiring Mourinho when SAF retired. Would they have been okay with the defensive football that he produces?
This is simply not true. We had about 3 good games using the 4-3-3 and even in those games creating chances was a big issue. Liverpool created as many chances we did at Anfield despite us dominating them. Against City, 2 of our goals were offside and the other one was a set piece. Against Spurs, we scored one from a set piece and another one from a poor back pass.
I think it's down to players not playing on instinct for whatever reason. They all look labored and as soon as we get out of our half they seem to need lots of touches before they let go off the ball. I don't know if this is LVG trying to coach something different to them or if this is just a case of our players being shite.
Like the post above, I am also not convinced 4-3-3 is the most optimal lineup for us (despite the few games last season). One, it made us susceptible to counter attacks by the oppositions as there is only one midfielder - this is what happened during the last few games of the season when the teams had figured us out. Two, it doesn't even make us more attacking as, in LVG's scheme, there are only 3 pure "attackers" - instead of 4 like this season. Obviously the problem is that those 4 have been largely in a shit form this season which is not helpful of our game.
Sounds like Koeman's having a little sly dig here -
I take it Koeman is trying to win the league this season then.
This is Herrera's quote from last year. It's implies that LVG's system relies on the passing to be very accurate because players have to stick to their designated positions instead of roaming around to create angles. In that case, I'd argue that we simply aren't that good a passing team to make it work. It seem to me to be the system that demands players to pass like Silva and De Bruyne to make it work. Also, I'm not sure our forwards are good enough under pressure to make it work either.
Can someone with more experience of watching his team's clarify? Am I reading too much into this quote? Comes across a system for elite players really. Did he implement his system well at AZ? Or were they also lacking cohesion on the ball despite winning the league?
He struggled implementing his possession game at AZ. After the third season, he offered to resign, the players begged him to stay, so he did. In the 2008-09 season, they reverted to a more counter attacking system and AZ won the league. It's not what he wants, but he adapted sufficiently.
Interesting. So basically with lesser players he wasn't able to make his possssion system work. If a more direct system worked better than I'm surprised he hasn't tried that here. I suppose us challenging for the title might have something to do with that. But our system being too tough for our current players to pull off is rather off putting if true.
Then again he probably feels at Unifed he'll be able to sign the level of player to make it work. Should have signed more attackers in that case this last summer.
I think that probably does. He did give it three seasons, so it wasn't done without enough evidence. I do expect him to keep on trying to implement a possession game, aim will be to perfect it. Personally, I don't think he's a long way off what he wants, United only need to sort out the attack. Defense is fine, midfield is fine it's the attacking side of United's game needs fixing. He can't keep relying on United scoring twice from three shots on target.
Hopefully I can articulate this clearly. I think i saw you mention somewhere that Bournemouth are a possession based team.
They sort of are but I tend to view them to be more of a short passing team. Here is the difference between Bournemouth and us. When we have the ball and players are pressed or under pressure we look to find players in open space to relieve that pressure which means we will cycle the ball across the pitch to where there is more space. Bournemouth prefer to try and pass their way out of tight spaces with a view to moving forward. They will switch the ball out into open space once they have passed their way out of a tight area, however that switch is usually to players making runs forward. Often our switches of play are simply out to players standing in space.
In basic terms Bournemouth try to move from one small sided game to the next small sided game on the pitch, it can be a high risk approach if teams know how to defend against it and I am constantly amazed at how often other teams screw up one of the fundamentals of defending against a short passing side. The key is to follow your man and not the ball, it cuts out the 1-2 pass. It doesnt mean man marking but more in a small sided game situation on the pitch once your man passes the ball you have to reduce his ability to receive a return pass.
Our players are perfectly capable of playing in a manner that Bournemouth play and I think with our quality we would do it better. It comes down to how LVG wants to play. He wants to use the ball to move the opposition players around to then create space. Eddie Howe wants players to move through space and find each other with the ball. Hope that makes sense. Eddie Howes problem is that he simply doesnt have enough decent strikers to score the goals to win games. It would be interesting to see how he went at a bigger club with a deeper pool of good players.
I think our problem is that we lack variety in our play. This is simplistic but I think we can move the ball around and move the opposition defenders around but we lack ball players who can dribble at defenders with the ball, sort of like Hazard for example. If we had a couple of players such as Hazard in the team and used their dribbling ability we would have teams unsure of how to defend, should they track their runners or should they follow the ball. That variety would make us more unpredictable, at present we are simply too predictable.
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You are correct, but the point you miss, is that this is actually a big fault of LVG in that he got rid of players who could provide that and didn't replace them
I was simply discussing with amobhatia, Bournemouths approach compared to ours. I wasnt making any comment on what LVG has or hasnt done. I wasnt trying to make any point positive or negative regarding LVG.
True indeed
This is true but the point made by Amol is also true that to the extent we create openings, our final play is so terrible that we more often than not are unable to get something out of it.