Post match vs Bournemouth

I missed the game and ended up watching MOTD only. LvG spoke about good attitude and chances in the second half but all the chances in the highlights were Bournemouth's. It seems like for the most part the posts in this thread agree that they had the better chances.

Quite worrying. Our form is terrible right now, injuries are piling up, and the busy holidays period is coming up.
 
After a disappointing CL-match with a injury plaqued squad you go to Bournemouth on a high and after 5 minutes, the goalkeeper has already put the ball in his own net. But with all these youngsters and improvisations, there are two players who should/could have had a hattrick. Let's blame the manager.
 
18 hours later and I still cannot believe what i saw last night. Tactically very very poor once again, still no emotion, passion or instruction from the touchline, absolute random substitutions (almost like drawing a raffle and see who's number comes out) and a dire second half performance!

The last two league fixtures, dropping 5 points have been shocking but last nights second half and the circumstances surrounding it are absolutely pathetic for a club the size of and with the prestige of Manchester United.

Not one player, not one, is currently playing for this manager and regardless of the injury list or any other excuses he throws out, when the backs are against the wall with injuries the players on the field should show fight, heart and desire to show they are playing for the manager - not one player right now is showing that!

But it is hardly surprising when you are probably the most effective player on the pitch and trying to drag the team through with sheer effort (not quality) and then getting dragged off for Nick fecking Powell! It is that bad it is almost laughable!

Absolutely dreading the next two games!
 
I watched MOTD and now wish I hadn't. The horror looked even worse when it's shredded down by the Beeb. Shearer and his side-kick were full of praise for the Bournemouth manager and their work rate. As per last week they were pretty critical of the team and the manager. Thankfully they didn't have more time to expose the glaring mistakes of our young players and the problems with the more established players. There were moments yesterday when we looked like an average Sunday league team, a bunch of strangers without a leader.

That game was watched by Woodward and Bobby, and both looked pretty poefaced but it's difficult to read their opinions but I can't believe they still believe this is progress. For once LVG's post-match antics were flat, possibly after that disaster on Friday. In the end all that was on show after vast expenditure and painful dissection was a shambles. If we go back to the WHU game there is nothing to salvage. If we go back to Newcastle it's been the lack of a goal poacher like Chico, and if we go back to Spurs it's 3 wins in 12. Stuck between our history (Sexton and O'Farrell) or recent moves by other clubs (Scouses and Chelski) it's difficult to know what is the best solution.

I never wanted LVG because of the Bayern calamity but now he's in place I wanted him to stick around until April. If we had got through the CL and retained our position in the league in January then a marque buy would have sealed our season. This week that plan burned.

It's no longer clear what a marque buy might do for a club with no defence without Smalling, a bunch of strangers in midfield, and a woeful forward line. I wouldn't mind if we had been exposed by the master classes of football, but we've been taught simple and fundamental lessons by journeyman sides largely made up from cast offs and players who wouldn't last 5 minutes under LVG. There is every reason to believe those players we have sold would rip the present side apart - it's no longer a slur it's a reality - and Chico is the most painful loss of all given his scoring rate.

My biggest fear for this lightweight and youthful squad was to be entering the Xmas period weakened, defeated and demoralised. Sadly we are at the point of becoming serious contenders for mid-table mediocrity.
 
I must admit, I'm struggling to watch United at the moment. I thought about not bothering yesterday but then relented. Given the starting XI I knew we'd struggle to beat them but the reality was even worse than I'd feared. I then felt like the bloke on Clockwork Orange having his eyes pinned open and forced to watch the whole match - masochism?

It's not that I'm a spoilt glory hunter - far from it, I loved watching a poor United team in the 1980's who at least tried to entertain as well as win matches (sometimes they even did!). But this...this is tumescent, spineless, clueless.
 
After a disappointing CL-match with a injury plaqued squad you go to Bournemouth on a high and after 5 minutes, the goalkeeper has already put the ball in his own net. But with all these youngsters and improvisations, there are two players who should/could have had a hattrick. Let's blame the manager.
Who was that?
 
It was awful but far from shocking, half expect us to lose now which is extremely depressing. We had a decent first half and missed some glaring opportunities which gave me hope.

The second half however was just shocking to watch. Bournemouth are not a good side and to be honest they didn't even play that well but we were gash. So many poor decisions from the youngsters (which is to be expected) such as Varela chasing Stanislas down the wing and being turned even though it was clear he was desperately trying to lure him into it. Playing young players is brilliant but not 5 or 6 of them at a time.

Subs were abysmal, left Mata on who did absolutely nothing appart from backwards passes. Took Fellaini off who scored and had a couple of other great chances. Then the final straw was putting Jones on for 2 mins at the end! Insane decisions at times and it was bewildering to watch.

The last 2 months have been incredibly bad and if not for a very fortunate last min goal at Watford Wed be in even worse shape. Our only saving grace is the awful form showed by other big sides which has left us in with a chance at the top.

Couple months back we weren't looking too bad despite us knowing there were clear deficiencies in the squad but now its all falling appart very very quickly and we need to do something about it.
 
After a disappointing CL-match with a injury plaqued squad you go to Bournemouth on a high and after 5 minutes, the goalkeeper has already put the ball in his own net. But with all these youngsters and improvisations, there are two players who should/could have had a hattrick. Let's blame the manager.
Bournemouth also had lots of injuries.
 
Bournemouth also had lots of injuries.
Could be, i thought they were playing like a good midtable team. To me it was a typical 'when it rains, it pours' match. It's just a huge mistake from De Gea, that happens, also to the best goal keepers, but you can't blame the manager for such a horrible start to a game. I thought the reaction was very positive, the defence was exposed a few times but they created good chances despite sloppy passing in the build up. A shame they ran out of steam after Depay got a knock and stopped producing anything, and Fellaini lost his touch but the first 70 minutes was reasonably good football with not so very good players.
 
Could be, i thought they were playing like a good midtable team. To me it was a typical 'when it rains, it pours' match. It's just a huge mistake from De Gea, that happens, also to the best goal keepers, but you can't blame the manager for such a horrible start to a game. I thought the reaction was very positive, the defence was exposed a few times but they created good chances despite sloppy passing in the build up. A shame they ran out of steam after Depay got a knock and stopped producing anything, and Fellaini lost his touch but the first 70 minutes was reasonably good football with not so very good players.

That's irony right, you really don't believe that?
 
Yes, the first half was fine with Martial and Depay looking a threat and being lively. The second half we didnt turn up at all, nowhere near good enough
 
Depay actually looked half decent for 20mins in the first half. And we had some possession & a couple of chances.

Bournemouth looked dangerous every time they attacked & the GK threw one in his own net.

I think 'good' & 'fine' is a little bit over the top even for praise of the faint praise variety.

The 2nd half cannot be discussed in polite company because it was so horrifically fecking awful.
 
Depay actually looked half decent for 20mins in the first half. And we had some possession & a couple of chances.

Bournemouth looked dangerous every time they attacked & the GK threw one in his own net.

I think 'good' & 'fine' is a little bit over the top even for praise of the faint praise variety.

The 2nd half cannot be discussed in polite company because it was so horrifically fecking awful.

We obviously watched the same game. Empires fall eventually but that second half was pitiful beyond all belief and expletives.
 
Fellani is a lot of things. But a lack of desire is a joke.
Carrick kept trying even though he'll never look like a trier.
Mata did his best.

Tbh we were just out played. Even the commentator said look how fast they get the ball forward. I think that was the difference.
We will just have to agree to disagree.

What I noticed in this particular game, is that when the chips didn't fall our way, Fellani (and other experienced players) did not step up another gear. I hold Fellani largely responsible for the second goal in that he was left standing and just trotted back when the Bournemouth full back went at our defense, shot and got the corner leading to the goal. Very similar to Schwienie for the second goal at Wolfsburg. On numerous occasions he was just ambling back, not running his gut out to get the ball back, I would say went he through the motions. We saw nothing in comparison to, say when Watford got their equalizer. We needed the players I mentioned to stand up and say not on my watch. They didn't. Carrick and Mata, though exceptional players on their day, and they did do some good things, didn't stand up yesterday. I call it desire (winning mentality), and I do not think they have it. A defense with 3 youth team players was not protected very well by Fellani and Carrick.

Bournemouth had loads of desire, players going that extra mile.
 
Amen to that. You'd think Bobby would have a word with them about it. Surely he can't have forgotten those days.

Bobby needs to retire....retire if you know what I mean. He really should not have a say in how the club is run anymore I feel. No disrespect meant. We simply should have got Maurinho when he was gagging to come to us. Instead we went for Moyes.

As for van Gaal. thinking about the match yesterday, I amost got the feeling he was sabotaging the match. Not pressing them...and sitting back. Taking out the guy who scored and who could have done some damange...just before the freekick. Not playing Young from the start. Instead 3 reserves and Blind as CB. Maybe he wants to be fired and get a payout instead of just resigning. Its obvious he has lost the dressing room. Certainly Giggs is not on his side.
 
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I don't think Fellaini lacks desire. I think he's just a terrible ball-watcher, who often doesn't have a clue where to position himself - so he just stands around, hoping he'll be okay.

Having said that, I wouldn't count on him to fling himself in the way of a hard shot.
 
Bobby needs to retire....retire if you know what I mean. He really should not have a say in how the club is run anymore I feel. No disrespect meant. We simply should have got Maurinho when he was gagging to come to us. Instead we went for Moyes.

As for van Gaal. thinking about the match yesterday, I amost got the feeling he was sabotaging the match. Not pressing them...and sitting back. Taking out the guy who scored and who could have done some damange...just before the freekick. Not playing Young from the start. Instead 3 reserves and Blind as CB. Maybe he wants to be fired and get a payout instead of just resigning. Its obvious he has lost the dressing room. Certainly Giggs is not on his side.

There were a number of us on here that wanted Mourinho but were shouted down because Fergie had told us all to get behind the new boss. That little speech did much to preempt criticism of the choice of manager. Fergie himself is busy re-writing history now telling us that it was a process of selection and not a phone call to Moyes that secured him the job. Anyway, it's water under the bridge now.

Van Gaal may well have lost the dressing room. I imagine it's a very divided camp at Old Trafford. Someone is feeding the press and I don't think we have to look too far to work out who that is. Giggs wants the imperial robes for himself. I don't believe for a minute that he was happy to learn from Van Gaal- I think he was furious that, despite Fergie's backing, he didn't get the job he thought should be his. Not that it'll make a difference in the grand scheme of things, but if Giggs gets the job, I'm done with the club and I know quite a few others who feel the same way.
 
There were a number of us on here that wanted Mourinho but were shouted down because Fergie had told us all to get behind the new boss. That little speech did much to preempt criticism of the choice of manager. Fergie himself is busy re-writing history now telling us that it was a process of selection and not a phone call to Moyes that secured him the job. Anyway, it's water under the bridge now.

Van Gaal may well have lost the dressing room. I imagine it's a very divided camp at Old Trafford. Someone is feeding the press and I don't think we have to look too far to work out who that is. Giggs wants the imperial robes for himself. I don't believe for a minute that he was happy to learn from Van Gaal- I think he was furious that, despite Fergie's backing, he didn't get the job he thought should be his. Not that it'll make a difference in the grand scheme of things, but if Giggs gets the job, I'm done with the club and I know quite a few others who feel the same way.

putting my tin foil here. I think there is something to these 'Pep in the summer' rumours. Instead of waiting for the end of the season, I think van Gaal is trying to bring things to a head. Just hand over the reigns to the guy who wants the 'robes' as you say and feck off to Portugal. He can still preserve his legacy saying he went because of all the politics. You seem a lot more clued into what Giggs is doing. Honestly I don't know that part of it. Giggs may be prepared to be Pep's assistant until.....

I tried to wean my self off the club when the Glazers came in....more for personal reasons. Supporting Manchester United has come at a big personal cost that I wont discuss here. I have tried to rebuild what I had lost. As you and I know, the club we supported growing up is no longer. It is a huge money making machine. But for it to be successful as I said, the owners need to understand our history...but even more. They need to know what has made this the biggest football club on earth is rooted in the local community. Those roots need to be nurtured. Without it, we are just a 'franchise'.
 
putting my tin foil here. I think there is something to these 'Pep in the summer' rumours. Instead of waiting for the end of the season, I think van Gaal is trying to bring things to a head. Just hand over the reigns to the guy who wants the 'robes' as you say and feck off to Portugal. He can still preserve his legacy saying he went because of all the politics. You seem a lot more clued into what Giggs is doing. Honestly I don't know that part of it. Giggs may be prepared to be Pep's assistant until.....

I tried to wean my self off the club when the Glazers came in....more for personal reasons. Supporting Manchester United has come at a big personal cost that I wont discuss here. I have tried to rebuild what I had lost. As you and I know, the club we supported growing up is no longer. It is a huge money making machine. But for it to be successful as I said, the owners need to understand our history...but even more. They need to know what has made this the biggest football club on earth is rooted in the local community. Those roots need to be nurtured. Without it, we are just a 'franchise'.

I just see history repeating itself. I remember McGuinness leaving the job and the players split into various factions. I remember O'Farrell who just did not get along with the established players and who was also stabbed in the back in a manner worthy of the Senate on the Ides of March. Docherty, for all his faults, had one hell of a mess to clean up which he did in about three years. That was a remarkable achievement and despite relegation, he understood the fans, the club, the history, and he built his team to conform to certain ideals.

Matt Busby, bless him, could never truly let go and maybe Fergie is the same. True, he doesn't keep an office or allow players to bend his ear behind the manager's back (or so he says), but his influence is still there. He wants Giggs and has said so several times. Someone is feeding the press stuff and Giggs' mates, or at least Scholes, are vocal in their dislike of Van Gaal's team. Who would benefit most if Van Gaal was sacked or forced to resign? There's a power play going on and the club is suffering.

On your last point, we lost that a long time ago. They tore up the roots with the Stretford End and bunged 'em in a skip. Modern football is run by oligarchs, oil sheikhs, venture capitalists, and brutes who make their millions off the backs of low-paid and ill-used workers. Local communities count for nothing. We've lost out to the globalists. We are a franchise and there's no going back.
 
I just see history repeating itself. I remember McGuinness leaving the job and the players split into various factions. I remember O'Farrell who just did not get along with the established players and who was also stabbed in the back in a manner worthy of the Senate on the Ides of March. Docherty, for all his faults, had one hell of a mess to clean up which he did in about three years. That was a remarkable achievement and despite relegation, he understood the fans, the club, the history, and he built his team to conform to certain ideals.

Matt Busby, bless him, could never truly let go and maybe Fergie is the same. True, he doesn't keep an office or allow players to bend his ear behind the manager's back (or so he says), but his influence is still there. He wants Giggs and has said so several times. Someone is feeding the press stuff and Giggs' mates, or at least Scholes, are vocal in their dislike of Van Gaal's team. Who would benefit most if Van Gaal was sacked or forced to resign? There's a power play going on and the club is suffering.

On your last point, we lost that a long time ago. They tore up the roots with the Stretford End and bunged 'em in a skip. Modern football is run by oligarchs, oil sheikhs, venture capitalists, and brutes who make their millions off the backs of low-paid and ill-used workers. Local communities count for nothing. We've lost out to the globalists. We are a franchise and there's no going back.
Great posts Moriarty.
I'm also pretty sure there's a 'power play' behind the scenes that's hurting the club. It's like we're destroying ourselves from within:( Wish the Glazers weren't so passive - I don't think Ed is subtle enough to quite fight this. I'm hoping for the best.

On SAF not having an office at the club - I know that's what he said, but then earlier in LVGs tenure, SAF said sometimes Van Gaal would come see him after the matches and they'd have a chat in his office/lounge..... sounded to me like he still operates from the club...
 
I just see history repeating itself. I remember McGuinness leaving the job and the players split into various factions. I remember O'Farrell who just did not get along with the established players and who was also stabbed in the back in a manner worthy of the Senate on the Ides of March. Docherty, for all his faults, had one hell of a mess to clean up which he did in about three years. That was a remarkable achievement and despite relegation, he understood the fans, the club, the history, and he built his team to conform to certain ideals.

Matt Busby, bless him, could never truly let go and maybe Fergie is the same. True, he doesn't keep an office or allow players to bend his ear behind the manager's back (or so he says), but his influence is still there. He wants Giggs and has said so several times. Someone is feeding the press stuff and Giggs' mates, or at least Scholes, are vocal in their dislike of Van Gaal's team. Who would benefit most if Van Gaal was sacked or forced to resign? There's a power play going on and the club is suffering.

On your last point, we lost that a long time ago. They tore up the roots with the Stretford End and bunged 'em in a skip. Modern football is run by oligarchs, oil sheikhs, venture capitalists, and brutes who make their millions off the backs of low-paid and ill-used workers. Local communities count for nothing. We've lost out to the globalists. We are a franchise and there's no going back.

you've hit all the points.

Agree 100% about Docherty.If we had kept him and overlooked his personal bs we would not have taken so long to come back. He played good attacking football with players who were far less quality than the great 60s side.

I do feel Fergie's shadow is still there over the club. But like you say, its all money now. A last thought. The character of the club and English football itself was lost once our teams started having players from outside the UK and Ireland. And before we go on about the CL or more correctly The European Cup, Celtic and Manchester United won it back when we all had local lads.

As to the standard of English football, our lads are not inferior to any European. Blame the FA for not investing and training our youth.
 
I just see history repeating itself. I remember McGuinness leaving the job and the players split into various factions. I remember O'Farrell who just did not get along with the established players and who was also stabbed in the back in a manner worthy of the Senate on the Ides of March. Docherty, for all his faults, had one hell of a mess to clean up which he did in about three years. That was a remarkable achievement and despite relegation, he understood the fans, the club, the history, and he built his team to conform to certain ideals.

Matt Busby, bless him, could never truly let go and maybe Fergie is the same. True, he doesn't keep an office or allow players to bend his ear behind the manager's back (or so he says), but his influence is still there. He wants Giggs and has said so several times. Someone is feeding the press stuff and Giggs' mates, or at least Scholes, are vocal in their dislike of Van Gaal's team. Who would benefit most if Van Gaal was sacked or forced to resign? There's a power play going on and the club is suffering.

On your last point, we lost that a long time ago. They tore up the roots with the Stretford End and bunged 'em in a skip. Modern football is run by oligarchs, oil sheikhs, venture capitalists, and brutes who make their millions off the backs of low-paid and ill-used workers. Local communities count for nothing. We've lost out to the globalists. We are a franchise and there's no going back.

I think you know I agree with all your post, which is a great analysis. If we carry your thoughts to the next logical step - that the 92 clique are wagging the dog - what does it mean for the future? If Fergie is the spider in the web what is his purpose - to own or become club chairman?

The fact the club is replaying a similar power play as the immediate post-Busby years has always struck me as odd given the plethora of statements in the last 20 years about the club would work strenuously to avoid this very same scenario. It also seemed odd that Fergie insisted we support Moyes, then published his memoir, and instead of being in New York as he promised, was attending every game to watch Moyes slide. Then he disappeared only to come out last year to tell us what a great manager Maureen is. Now there is another book on leadership, which points to someone who is obviously unhappily retired. Perhaps this is the moves to establishing a new dynasty.

If this is the beginning of building a new dynasty that looks more like the Bayern model, with professionals and club greats, rather than moguls and corporates, isn't that a better direction?
 
I think you know I agree with all your post, which is a great analysis. If we carry your thoughts to the next logical step - that the 92 clique are wagging the dog - what does it mean for the future? If Fergie is the spider in the web what is his purpose - to own or become club chairman?

The fact the club is replaying a similar power play as the immediate post-Busby years has always struck me as odd given the plethora of statements in the last 20 years about the club would work strenuously to avoid this very same scenario. It also seemed odd that Fergie insisted we support Moyes, then published his memoir, and instead of being in New York as he promised, was attending every game to watch Moyes slide. Then he disappeared only to come out last year to tell us what a great manager Maureen is. Now there is another book on leadership, which points to someone who is obviously unhappily retired. Perhaps this is the moves to establishing a new dynasty.

If this is the beginning of building a new dynasty that looks more like the Bayern model, with professionals and club greats, rather than moguls and corporates, isn't that a better direction?
Perhaps. However, the point is, whichever model you use, the people that are put in key positions need to know what they are doing. If it's club greats - they need to be able to have the intelligence to be able to step up and think in a managerial capacity rather than as players. It's a completely different criteria. Bayern go about it the right way, but I don't trust us to do the same. SAF does like a bit of nepotism as well, and his loyalty to his friends can cloud his judgment. At this moment therefore, I'd rather take my chances with the suits and hope that one of them gets in a DOF asap - that's what's needed I think.
 
He destroyed his brother's marriage and his life and he destroyed an unborn baby to protect his sordid affair and his image. Great footballer maybe but an utter scumbag of a human being. That's why.
I think a lot of people agree with you. Also can you imagine everytime we play in Europe and all that will be dragged up by the foreign press.
 
He destroyed his brother's marriage and his life and he destroyed an unborn baby to protect his sordid affair and his image. Great footballer maybe but an utter scumbag of a human being. That's why.

What has that got to do with managing a football club? I don't care if Donald Trump or Bin Laden is our manager as long as he's a great manager.
 
What has that got to do with managing a football club? I don't care if Donald Trump or Bin Laden is our manager as long as he's a great manager.
A lot about the image of the club, it makes him untrustworthy for a start. If he can do that to his brother, as one of his players I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.
 
If this is the beginning of building a new dynasty that looks more like the Bayern model, with professionals and club greats, rather than moguls and corporates, isn't that a better direction?

In theory, yes. @Jazz beat me to the punch there with his analysis, which I agree with. I would not want the club run by all footballing men. The way it is now - and it won't change, we need businessmen too.