Gay Marriage

unchanged_lineup said:
Aw Jerch! Now you're on my home territory trying to bring Keith Mills into this debate :D Along with Paddy Manning, he is one of the most vile, hateful and unstable people you are ever likely to meet in your life and, with little exaggeration, their antics were a big factor in why gay marriage was PASSED in my country :D

Did you realise before you posted it that he's from my country? Seriously, these lads are notorious and I have acres of ACTUAL, REAL EVIDENCE from their own mouths to show how unhinged and hateful they are. Please, ask me anything about them. Once again, like all the other times, you really might not be so proud to quote them after you hear what they're really like.
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You really have a hard time discreaditing all those evidences :) But I can agree, I would definetly not used them in my campaign, at least that second guy, he is really unlikeable :lol:

But I wanted to ask you when you discreadit all my videos, articles and all that what do you want from me. An some kind of urgent letter from the top of LGBT comunnity with the message "Yeah we are pricks, don't care about the childrens and what is the best for them. We don't care that hetero couples are naturaly better parents because all we want is to get what we demand" :lol:
Sorry can't give it to you because, well the dog ate it :nervous::p

As I said, everyone have their own opinion but I trully believe that same sex parents are not the best for the kids and if you ask me if just a little worse then the best is good enough I would say definetly not. I know most families are not perfect but as a parent I can tell you we all try the best we can and want the best for all other kids.

If it help's you, you can call me homophobic, but I can't say same sex parenting is as good as mother-father. But hey, everyone is entilted to his own opinion.

Oh and did you noticed that I didn't attacked or qestioned anyone who thinks the same sex parenting is as good (or even better as some tried to prove) as father-mother parenting? Do you know why? Because I understand that some people think differentaly than me and that we have the right to decide no matter if we are for or against. Equality or something.
 
Jerch said:
You really have a hard time discreaditing all those evidences
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Let me just stop you right there, Jerch. I've debunked every single thing you've posted in this thread. Not one piece of your evidence has stood up and I've shown exactly why to every single one. Are you not reading my posts or what?

What I want is for you to stop trying to justify a personal bias with garbage anti-science. You claimed you had evidence when you bumped this thread and you've got zero.
 
Amethyst said:
I know she wasn't adopted, but the issue about the biological father is still valid. The points that she's making in that video could apply to anyone growing up without one or both of their biological parents, whether that's because they're adopted, donor sperm, their parents die etc. There is absolutely no reason to single out same sex parents in the way you're doing and say they shouldn't adopt. Otherwise I suppose you'll be campaigning to ban divorce and make laws so that one parent can't have sole custody even if the other parent is in no fit condition to raise the children. Children are going to question who their biological parents are no matter what the gender of their parents. And yes it's a difficult situation, but seeing how you appear to have no problem with straight couples adopting you shouldn't have any with same sex doing so.
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You really should try to search for my answears before you say. I have problems that we will create on purpose those half-orphans and many of them because it will be the only way for same sex couples to have their own kids which they will be entitled to with the new law, at least in our country.

Also you missed or didn't want to read this part.
Jerch said:
Also she didn't only questioned what would her real father look like but also what does it even mean to have a father, mother-father family can give you that feeling, same sex couples sadly not.
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unchanged_lineup said:
Let me just stop you right there, Jerch. I've debunked every single thing you've posted in this thread. Not one piece of your evidence has stood up and I've shown exactly why to every single one. Are you not reading my posts or what?

What I want is for you to stop trying to justify a personal bias with garbage anti-science. You claimed you had evidence when you bumped this thread and you've got zero.
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Well you think you debuked article if you say "oh yeah he is against same sex marriage, it is proved so, he/she is known by that etc". Well no shit Sherlock they are against if they are talking and writing articles which are against. You even practically called Freud a noob :lol:
 
Jerch said:
If it help's you, you can call me homophobic, but I can't say same sex parenting is as good as mother-father. But hey, everyone is entilted to his own opinion.

Oh and did you noticed that I didn't attacked or qestioned anyone who thinks the same sex parenting is as good (or even better as some tried to prove) as father-mother parenting? Do you know why? Because I understand that some people think differentaly than me and that we have the right to decide no matter if we are for or against. Equality or something.
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Equality? Like the same equality you're in favor of for same sex couples?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when it's prejudiced against a group of people, and you use absolute bollocks to back up what you think....you should expect to be called out on it. The fact that everyone think you're talking shit and using bad research as "evidence" should be a clue :)
 
Jerch said:
Well you think you debuked article if you say "oh yeah he is against same sex marriage, it is proved so, he/she is known by that etc". Well no shit Sherlock they are against if they are talking and writing articles which are against. You even practically called Freud a noob :lol:
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Sorry mate, you've lost the plot. I've gone to a lot of time and effort to show why what they've said is false, misrepresented or utterly invalid. I get it that maybe you're not up for reading the reams and reams of stuff I've found but at lease admit that then. AND you're confusing me with someone else about Freud, that was another debate you were having with someone else.
 
@Jerch

In regards to Freud :)

But his legacy is a shaky one. Freud has, for the most part, fallen completely out of favor in academia. Virtually no institution in any discipline would dare use him as a credible source. In 1996, Psychological Science reached the conclusion that “[T]here is literally nothing to be said, scientifically or therapeutically, to the advantage of the entire Freudian system or any of its component dogmas." As a research paradigm, it’s pretty much dead.

Many of Freud’s methodologies, techniques, and conclusions have been put into question. Moreover, his theories have even proved damaging — and even dangerous — to certain segments of the population. His perspectives on female sexuality and homosexuality are reviled, causing many feminists to refer to him by a different kind of ‘F’ word. Some even argue that his name should be spelled “Fraud” and not Freud.

“Freud is truly in a class of his own,” writes Todd Dufresne, an outspoken critic. “Arguably no other notable figure in history was so fantastically wrong about nearly every important thing he had to say. But, luckily for him, academics have been — and still are — infinitely creative in their efforts to whitewash his errors, even as lay readers grow increasingly dumbfounded by the entire mess.”
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Skizzo said:
Equality? Like the same equality you're in favor of for same sex couples?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when it's prejudiced against a group of people, and you use absolute bollocks to back up what you think....you should expect to be called out on it. The fact that everyone think you're talking shit and using bad research as "evidence" should be a clue :)
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Again what s bad reasearches for one side are a fact for other side and wise versa. Sadly I didn't saw one evidence why same sex marriage is good...

Nah I have work tomorrow, finally got a job :) So i will go to sleep. And one more thing. If you all love so much kids that you argue for them to dead on this forum I hope you will not forget that Santa is coming in few days and many kids don't get anything because parents don't have enough money. Help them with the toys and candies.
 
Jerch said:
Again what s bad reasearches for one side are a fact for other side and wise versa. Sadly I didn't saw one evidence why same sex marriage is good...

Nah I have work tomorrow, finally got a job :) So i will go to sleep. And one more thing. If you all love so much kids that you argue for them to dead on this forum I hope you will not forget that Santa is coming in few days and many kids don't get anything because parents don't have enough money. Help them with the toys and candies.
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Congrats on the job.

But which parents don't have enough money? The same sex ones or the Hetero couples? ;)
 
Jerch said:
You really should try to search for my answears before you say. I have problems that we will create on purpose those half-orphans and many of them because it will be the only way for same sex couples to have their own kids which they will be entitled to with the new law, at least in our country.
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So would you ban divorce and not allow a single parent custody even if the husband or wife for example was abusive to their partner and/or their children?

Also you missed or didn't want to read this part.
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I didn't miss that part, I already gave you other scenarios such as one parent dying where you could say the exact same thing. Therefore there's no reason so single out same sex partners.
 
Skizzo said:
Congrats on the job.

But which parents don't have enough money? The same sex ones or the Hetero couples? ;)
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All. Even I am totally broke but I have excuse still studying and having 2 kids. But yeah I bought 2 teddy bears, a couple of transformers and bag full of candies to carry them to kids school and they then give it to parents who don't have money for Santa. I found it really great that they decided to do that in school.
 
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Silva said:
If there's studies showing racists to be who they hate I'm

Silva said:
If there's studies showing racists to be who they hate I'm sure it'll happen. They do tend to throw insults that mirror who they are though. For example, white supremacy being peddled by the most pitiful little cretins inferior to most people in most ways.
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The Louis Theroux programme on Eugene Terreblanche springs to mind on your latter point.
Dunno if people are too fixated on the gay dad in American Beauty on the other point.
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Jerch said:
All. Even I am totally broke but I have excuse still studying and having 2 kids. But yeah I bought 2 teddy bears, a couple of transformers and bag full of candies to carry them to kids school and they then give it to parents who don't have money for Santa. I found it really great that they decided to do that i school.
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Those acts do not make up for your homphobia. You just seem ignorant.
 
Jerch said:
Sadly I didn't saw one evidence why same sex marriage is good...
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How about because is provides same sex couples legal and social recognition of their relationship in a way that doesn't infringe upon your rights and freedoms?
How about because it gives same sex couples respect, dignity and the same legal rights that married heterosexual couples have historically enjoyed?
How about because it means those related to said couple won't have a family member who is treated as a second class citizen because of their sexual orientation?

All the same arguments against same sex marriage existed not so long ago, but for couples who were of different racial or religious backgrounds. Nowadays if people were to argue against people wanting to marry who were of different races for example they would rightly be called a bigot for holding onto that archaic point of view.

Now let's hear some rational, well thought out, cohesive arguments for why two men or two women of consenting age shouldn't get married.
 
Amethyst said:
How about because is provides same sex couples legal and social recognition of their relationship in a way that doesn't infringe upon your rights and freedoms?
How about because it gives same sex couples respect, dignity and the same legal rights that married heterosexual couples have historically enjoyed?
How about because it means those related to said couple won't have a family member who is treated as a second class citizen because of their sexual orientation?

All the same arguments against same sex marriage existed not so long ago, but for couples who were of different racial or religious backgrounds. Nowadays if people were to argue against people wanting to marry who were of different races for example they would rightly be called a bigot for holding onto that archaic point of view.

Now let's hear some rational, well thought out, cohesive arguments for why two men or two women of consenting age shouldn't get married.
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Still no evidence that same sex marriages are good ;)
 
Jerch said:
Still no evidence that same sex marriages are good ;)
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They're the same as hetero marriage. Which, unfortunately, just proves you right. Let's write the whole thing off as a cultural accident and start the orgies.

But if you're fine with hetero marriages, there's no valid criticism for not giving gay people the same right.
 
Amethyst said:
How about because is provides same sex couples legal and social recognition of their relationship in a way that doesn't infringe upon your rights and freedoms?
How about because it gives same sex couples respect, dignity and the same legal rights that married heterosexual couples have historically enjoyed?
How about because it means those related to said couple won't have a family member who is treated as a second class citizen because of their sexual orientation?

All the same arguments against same sex marriage existed not so long ago, but for couples who were of different racial or religious backgrounds. Nowadays if people were to argue against people wanting to marry who were of different races for example they would rightly be called a bigot for holding onto that archaic point of view.

Now let's hear some rational, well thought out, cohesive arguments for why two men or two women of consenting age shouldn't get married.
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And pretty much here is where anti gay marriage failed in Ireland. The thin veil of "concern" fell away when confronted with these simple arguments. And another to add to these - if you don't want gay marriage, don't get gay married. Simple as.
 
Jerch said:
Still no evidence that same sex marriages are good ;)
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They shouldn't have to prove that they are good. They don't have to be good. Prove they are bad.
 
Jerch said:
Still no evidence that same sex marriages are good ;)
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:lol: What are you expecting me to provide you with?

If don't agree, give me some reasons why same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed then and see whether the arguments stack up.
 
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unchanged_lineup said:
And pretty much here is where anti gay marriage failed in Ireland. The thin veil of "concern" fell away when confronted with these simple arguments. And another to add to these - if you don't want gay marriage, don't get gay married. Simple as.
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You did have quite a poor persons arguing against if they failed because of that...
 
ravi2 said:
With the kind of wilful ignorance you are displaying, if you are an American you surely must vote GOP.
You seem very uneducated.
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You to if you can't read what it says next to the fecking location. It is not a rocket science.
 
Jerch, you're starting to move the goalposts here, and not in any way that makes your argument stronger.

On this new way you're taking it. You can't see anything good because you don't want or need gay marriage for yourself. If you did, you'd see lots of good things in it. In fact, exactly the same things straight people see in it. So, in this case, mind your own business and let other people do what they want with their lives. Doesnt affect you.
 
Jerch said:
You did have quite a poor persons arguing against if they failed because of that...
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What does that even mean? If you know nothing about the mealy-mouthed lies and foul aspersions the likes of Iona Institute and the Catholic Church cast here in my country, and can't be bothered to educate yourself, you only make yourself look foolish with gibberish like that.
 
Silva said:
Exact same people you're quoting.
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Well the answear to all those is that there is a couple registration, as much as I know it was there in Ireland also. They can get all their rights with registration and the registration could be equal to the marriage but without the benefits they can't get through natural way (kids). If some rights were not yet there they could add it to the couple registration law and that is that and we leave family as it should be.

And then the people from yes camp will start shoutng that they want kids and not the equal rights which will be suicide. It's that simple.
 
Jerch said:
Well the answear to all those is that there is a couple registration, as much as I know it was thre in Ireland also. They can get all their rights with registration and the registration could be equal to the marriage but without the benefits they can't get through natural way (kids). If some rights were not yet there they could add it to the couple registration law and that is that and we leave family as it should be.

And then the people with yes will start shout that they want kids and not the equal rights which will be suicide. It's that simple.
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If that's what you know, you haven't a clue and have been listening to Keith Mills too much.

To take just two points.. There were HUNDREDS of legal differences, nowhere remotely near equal, not to mention marking out some of your citizens as second class. And secondly, gay couples could adopt before the referendum!! It did nothing in that regard. Back to the research, Jerch!
 
Jerch said:
Well the answear to all those is that there is a couple registration, as much as I know it was there in Ireland also. They can get all their rights with registration and the registration could be equal to the marriage but without the benefits they can't get through natural way (kids). If some rights were not yet there they could add it to the couple registration law and that is that and we leave family as it should be.

And then the people from yes camp will start shoutng that they want kids and not the equal rights which will be suicide. It's that simple.
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Aaand there's the reason you're a homophobe. You don't want gay people to be equal to you. It's that simple.
 
Jerch said:
Well the answear to all those is that there is a couple registration, as much as I know it was there in Ireland also. They can get all their rights with registration and the registration could be equal to the marriage but without the benefits they can't get through natural way (kids). If some rights were not yet there they could add it to the couple registration law and that is that and we leave family as it should be.

And then the people from yes camp will start shoutng that they want kids and not the equal rights which will be suicide. It's that simple.
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I hope you don't pass on that kind of ignorance to your kids.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
If that's what you know, you haven't a clue and have been listening to Keith Mills too much.

To take just two points.. There were HUNDREDS of legal differences not to mention marking out some of your citizens as second class. And secondly, gay couples could adopt before the referendum!! It did nothing in that regard. Back to the research, Jerch!
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Nah I am arguing for my country. The people who are against are happy to give them all the rights. The only question is the kids. They offered a law which will give same sex couples every right but the kids but the LGBT didn't accept it because they want the whole package.

And what they did in my country is shocking. They just change the definiton of the family (from the husband and wife to two persons) in the law which already exist which just create many troubles in law itself because it is written for the husband and wife.
 
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