Yeah I tend to agree, he sounds like a pisshead.
The Spurs thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah I tend to agree, he sounds like a pisshead.
I expect Pep to struggle at first.
How was he not? He left because Robben was in his prime. At Inter, Mancini really messed up by selling too many attackers. They are a solid unit but lack penetration and creativity. It's what caused them them to falter in the end.
Cabaye was foolish to leave in the first place. But he proved his class at Lille. He needs to be a key player.
Bojan left because Enrique left. He wasn't great at Milan or Ajax though.
The latest triumph of the self-proclaimed mega-club after spending yet more hundreds of millions
They won't be going anywhere bar in the rightful place. Somewhere between then 6th-4th place.
Even on their best ever season, they look to finish in around 75 points. To win the title you usually need more than 85 points. It is naive to think that City with Pep, United with Mourinho and likely Chelsea with Conte will struggle to get 80+ points.
This was Spurs best shot at title that they will ever had, unless they get purchased by a sugar daddy. And regardless what Glaston says, Kane will leave within 15 months. Love for the club is alright, but not when other clubs can offer 2-3 times the money (and more from commercials) and chance for trophies.
They aren't Atletico Madrid, Pochetino is not Simeone, and England is not Spain. It was fun while it lasted, but 20 years for now, Spurs will be remembered as the club who at times managed to qualify for UCL while Leicester as the club who punched above its weight and actually won the title.
But eventually it will. If you throw too much shit, it will eventually stick. If you throw too much money at the problem, eventually it will be solved. Just ask City.
It is not fair, right, just, yadda yadda, but it is how the world (football) works. Occasionally, teams punch above their weights (see Leicester) and occasionally they do worse than they should do (see United or Chelsea), but over the course of many years, the wealthy teams do better than the less wealthy team.
Right ... and Spurs don't feature in your list
The lucid rationality and unblinkered objectivity of your posts never ceases to amaze!Right ... and Spurs don't feature in your list
Come on, you know me, I just had to leave it out for the giggles. You are a top 6 team when I'm speaking to other Spurs fans or United fans.No, he wasn't. Stop posting bullshit. He was an okay benchwarmer under Heynckess and a failure under Guardiola, to only miserably fail on Inter.
Bojan failed in all three of Roma, Milano and Ajax, after was sold from Barcelona.
Ighalo was struggling on a weak La Liga team.
They were hardly Maradona, Curyff and Pele. Instead they were two players who were thought that will become great, but failed at every club they were.
Liverpool, ever since they dropped out of the top 4, have been throwing far more money at the problem than Spurs, yet Spurs have finished above them in 5 out of the last 6 seasons (including this one).
Chelski, with their Russian gangster sugar-daddy have now finished out of the top 4 for the 2nd time in the last 5 years. With Man. Utd it's now likely to be out of the top 4 for the 2nd time in the last 3 years.
Yet all I hear about is money, money, money, yada, yada yada ....
Are they though? All of Chelsea, City, United, Arsenal and Liverpool will likely finish ahead of them. And then of course, Leicester gets by default there as the defending champion
Liverpool don't have too much money in the first place. They have been spending more than you, but it isn't a very big difference.
United can spend each summer 150-200m pounds. It won't work always, but it will eventually work. Similarly to how it didn't work for a few years for the likes of City or Madrid but in the end it will. On the other side, Spurs will be playing the English Atletico, and the probability is much lower that you won't be able to do that, then United playing the English Real Madrid.
Chelsea under their Russian gangster have won more trophies than you will see Spurs win in your lifetime (even assuming that you are 12).
...
There is a strong correlation on the money a team spends and their league position. It has been so in the last 20 years and it will continue being so. Top players wants top wages and top trophies. Teams without too much money won't be able to afford that. They will occasionally do well in scouting, but at times they won't (like Spurs before the current bunch of players). They will occasionally do remarkable things for a season when the top dogs miss, but more often than not they won't. We have seen this happening before when the likes of Bremen, Wolfsburg and Stutgart won titles when Bayern was missing. We are seeing it with Leicester this year.
It is naive to think that there is more prob. that Spurs will win trophies than the correlation between money and success stopping. You'll need to be an outlier to do that (see Atletico Madrid), but that is very difficult happening in England when unlike Atletico, there are 5 teams richer than you who can compete for your signings, and more importantly, England neither have the Spanish talent, not the South America links.
So, enjoy while it lasts, because it won't last for long. And yes, Kane won't be there for long. *
* I know that he will stay there forever cause he loves Spurs more than himself. But so did Bale and Modric. And Berbatov. And Carrick.
What's doubtful about that?
Doubtful in the sense that you might as well be stuck with LvG next seasona as well. Until a transfer is officially announced, I'll remain skeptical.
What a load of elitist clap-trap.
So it's "naive to think that .... Chelsea with Conte will struggle to get 80+ points". Is this the same club that has now finished outside of the top 4 twice in the last 5 years? Is the same club with several ageing players and several others who'll want to leave this summer for greener pastures?
And, according to you, the youngest squad in the Prem is somehow magically going to get worse next season, despite Pochettino having another summer to coach them and another summer to make additions. It's clear who is actually being naïve here.
Fun while it lasted? In less than 2 years from now (never mind the 20 years you mention), Spurs will be in the top 10 globally in terms of income. And that's before our new stadium complex comes on stream. Your problem is of the stick-your-head-in-the-sand variety: thus you're blind to what's coming
I don't reckon even you truly believe the stuff you say, but just offer it up as a rebuttal to defend either yourself or your club at any given time.
We've won nothing since Fergie left, neither have you - actually, we have a CS, but we don't tend to count those... We're in an obvious down cycle, which all at the club deem unacceptable and yet, we've still won as much as you have whilst in your best period over the entire course of the PL since inception... call me a mentalist, but I just don't get what you're so proud of most of the time when you talk about Spurs trumping United at some selectively arbitrary time.
If we win the FA cup in May, we've still managed to win more trophies than you at our worst, and if we manage to qualify for the CL this season as well, then we've unquestionably had a better season than you, unless a miracle happens and you win the league.
Your boasts and bravado would make more sense once the season ends and the dust has settled, at least. As things stand, you've enormous potential for egg on your face in an argument you've brought upon yourself.
Put the money teams spend on x coordinate, put their number of victories on y coordinate, and look at the picture. You will see that they are completely linearly related.
To make it more easy for you, in a number of years, teams that spend most money also wins more matches. And teams that win most matches wins also most trophies.
It is not elitists. It is the way how it is. In pretty much every sport.
Edit: And in two years, United will still have more than 200m pounds than Spurs. Which means 200m pounds more to spend each summer. Occasionally, it won't work. But over a number of years we will do much better than you. You will need to consistently punch 100m above your weight, and we will need to consistently underperform in order for that to not happen. At times, for sure both those things will happen. But more often than not, we will finish above you and win more trophies than you (well, you won't win trophies at all). Same about City and Chelsea.
Go cry now and fantasize how the team in 2020 lead by Poch and Kane will win the world Cup. Guess what, neither of them will be at Spurs by that time. If they don't flop, next season will be their last season at Spurs.
You are having a mare. United can´t and won´t spend 150-200 million every year. At least not without selling players and there is little left to sell (except key players, whose sale would further weaken us).
Yes, we can spend more money than spurs and it is certainly not impossible to finish ahead of Tottenham, but it is not a given; we have to get things right. Woody has been failing to make good decisions for three years in a row now, so I don´t share your confidence.
Yes, we can spend more money than spurs and it is certainly not impossible to finish ahead of Tottenham, but it is not a given; we have to get things right. Woody has been failing to make good decisions for three years in a row now, so I don´t share your confidence.
It's great that in their best season for 79 years that they still feel like they fecked it up and missed out.
Small consolation for arses, but the alternative was simply unthinkable.
Small consolation for arses, but the alternative was simply unthinkable.
I finally understand why Arsenal fans hate Spurs this season, their fans are annoying and they think they are the greatest team because they will finish second.
Almost up there with Liverpool fans.
When will you folks learn the futility of trying to use logic with Glaston? He lives in his own little world where the rules of common sense & logic are to be ignored at all times.
Not to worry, sp*rs always gonna sp*rs.
So, that pretty much ends the title race for the 15/16 season, and along with it Spurs hopes of finally winning a premier league title. To be honest, there's been so much focus on Leicester I'm not sure if the Spurs fans actually believed they would do it anyway. Maybe @GlastonSpur can confirm what the mood has been in the Spurs fan's camp these last few months.
All in all, it's been an excellent season for Spurs. One where they've probably for the first time in my time watching them, been greater than the sum of their parts. There's a real cohesion about that team and I've actually been surprised at how good they've been going forward because I don't really rate their attack that highly, which speaks volume for the system Pochettino has put in place. And therein lies the reason for them being positive - the manager. I don't see Pochettino moving for till at least next summer so they've both got CL football to look forward to, as well seeing where this manager can take them. What they need to do IMO is back him in the market and demand he gets them another top 4 finish. With the young, cohesive squad they have, adding a bit of genuine pace and attacking firepower into that squad, could set them up really well for next season. The worry for them would be that Pochettino looks a manager destined for an elite club, and them going back to the Redknapp standard of managers, given their personnel isn't out of this world by any stretch of imagination, could see them becoming a 5th place team again.
As for the title this season, I think it's going to the team that truly deserve it. Spurs' have been one of the achievers of the league for sure, but their rise has simply been outdone by one of the craziest, most mental rises in football history.
All in all, it's been an excellent season for Spurs. One where they've probably for the first time in my time watching them, been greater than the sum of their parts. There's a real cohesion about that team and I've actually been surprised at how good they've been going forward because I don't really rate their attack that highly, which speaks volume for the system Pochettino has put in place. And therein lies the reason for them being positive - the manager. I don't see Pochettino moving for till at least next summer so they've both got CL football to look forward to, as well seeing where this manager can take them. What they need to do IMO is back him in the market and demand he gets them another top 4 finish. With the young, cohesive squad they have, adding a bit of genuine pace and attacking firepower into that squad, could set them up really well for next season. The worry for them would be that Pochettino looks a manager destined for an elite club, and them going back to the Redknapp standard of managers, given their personnel isn't out of this world by any stretch of imagination, could see them becoming a 5th place team again.
As for the title this season, I think it's going to the team that truly deserve it. Spurs' have been one of the achievers of the league for sure, but their rise has simply been outdone by one of the craziest, most mental rises in football history.
Yes, we can. United's revenue within two years will be more than 700m per year, while our wage is below 50%. That means that there will be more than 300m difference between the revenue and the wage. Depending on how much money the Glazers would want to get (so far, there aren't many indications that they will want heavy dividends) we can easily spent that much money each year. Obviously, if we get the world's top player then the wage will go higher and so we will have less money to spend (like Barcelona).
And yes, we will finish higher than Spurs for the majority of the next 10 years. Similar to how Spurs will finish higher than Leicester. Luck evens out in the end, and the true quality shines. And the quality is completely depended on the money invested. It has been like that since the beginning of nineties when the football became too much about the money, and it is going further in that direction.
We all like the fairy tales and how the football is about the decisions, manager, academy yadda yadda, but in the end of the day - over a number of years - teams win proportionally as much as they spend.
The last 3 years have definitely made it evident that we're not assured to finish in the top 4. So I agree on that point.
At the same time, we've free'd up tons of wages over the last 5 seasons I imagine. We've had stalwarts like Rio, Evra and Vidic in the squad replaced by the likes of Jones, Shaw and Rojo.
Di Maria, who was on huge wages, was replaced by Martial I imagine isn't even paid half.
And then you have the fact that our squad players used to be the likes of Evans, Park, Hernandez and Wellbeck, and are now the likes of Fosu Mensah, Rashford, Lingard and CBJ/Varela. So there's a lot of wages being saved there too.
So I'd argue that while we've spent a lot over the last 2 summers, we've also free'd up a lot of our wage outlay which should allow us to spend more.
Also, did we actually spend that much last summer in net terms? With ADM's sale, I imagine it was half of the 150-200 million outlay.
The adidas contract is 50m higher than the previous Nike contract, while the TV rights will be for 30+m higher. So, there is 80m just there.
In addition, the commercial growth is just increasing. And when the pay per view eventually will happen, who do you think will benefit more? United with all their fans all over the world, or Spurs' 14 fans in addition to Glaston.
It isn't even a question that within 10 years we will finish ahead (more often than not) of any team in England bar Chelsea and City.
It would be very funny if Alli gets suspended and Spurs having Chelsea, Newcastle away and Southampton at home pick up 1/0 point off the last 3 games and we win all four and finish above them.
It's always good to dream.
It's always good to dream.
It really depends on who is managing the team. If we're managed well then we have no business finishing behind Spurs and Liverpool. But if we're managed the way we've been over the last 3 years, and keep over paying for players (thus sortof negating our superior pool of funds to an extent) then there's every chance we'll keep struggling. I am confident though. Eventually we're bound to land a quality manager, and it appears to be already be happening as soon as right now.
It probably doesn't. Obviously, if we look 2-3 years in isolation yes, but if we look in the next 10-20 years, then unless Spurs gets purchased from some billionaire, we will finish ahead of them more often than not. Both us and them will have good and bad managers within these years, both will make good and bad decisions. In the end they get evened out, and the money rules.
It is simple statistics.
Nope, it depends on how we're being run and managed. You can't be managed terribly and magically expect "things evening out" to help you finish ahead of Arsenal (always in the top 4) and Liverpool (managed by Klopp)/ Spurs (managed by Pochettino)
I do have confidence in us being managed (at least) well pretty soon so we agree with the final end-result.
I think the premier league title is going to be in Manchester for the next 3+ years. Guardiola and Mourinho are going to bring both Manchester clubs to the elite level
Two of the best managers in the world at two of the richest clubs in the world who don't want to be seen as the second club in Manchester. The likes of Spurs aren't going to compete with that
Two of the best managers in the world at two of the richest clubs in the world who don't want to be seen as the second club in Manchester. The likes of Spurs aren't going to compete with that
That's the point though. You cannot expect us to be terribly managed while Spurs or Liverpool will be perfectly managed. It just is not going to happen over a large number of years, though it can happen in isolation over 2-3 years.
Similarly, we don't know who will win the title on Spain this season or the following one, but unless something extraordinary happen (like a plan crash for Barca/Real or a purchase for Atletico), Real and Barca are going to finish higher on average than Atletico over the next 15 years.
We see this all the time. Insanely managed teams like Real Madrid still do well. Why? Because they have a lot of money to throw at the problem. We have seen this in other leagues like Germany or Italy happening.
Over the course of a long time, the good and bad decisions will even out. There isn't a single team in Europe's top leagues that punched way above their weight over a long number of years. It just cannot happen.
You sound jealous of Spurs, to be honest. Head in the sand.
Spurs will finish top four next season if they keep the same squad and manager. They will likely add one or two players into the mix.
I think it's equally naive to think that a new manager + heavy spending = instant success
For all we know, Conte will flop badly. This is completely new territory for him and he is inheriting a real mess.
Mourinho isn't guaranteed anything either. We've been throwing our money around for over 2 years now and gotten nowhere. In fact, it's a local lad that has resurrected the club's season somewhat. I think Mourinho will improve United, but it will be a big ask to expect an immediate title challenge. If we bring in three world class players who hit the ground running, then maybe we could really take it up a few gears. But that's a big if at the moment.
I rate Pep highly, but even I know this is actually a big task ahead of him. Ageing squad, players over the hill and in need of a major overhaul. A new country and way of life for the manager, and a league with a different culture to the previous two leagues he's spent his management career in. I think Pep will struggle in his firsts season. If City somehow win The Champions League this season, he's already facing an uphill battle, just like with the treble side he inherited.
Pochettino has had a better start to management than Simeone who was up and down before finding his feet in Madrid. It's still early days for him at Spurs, who are probably the equivalent to Sevilla if we're comparing leagues. Atlético are more like an Arsenal.
So we'll just have to wait and see what happens next season. There are a lot of variables.
Didn´t media report that we had the highest wage bill at the end of last season? I agree that we got rid of various top earners after that, so we have certainly room to pay new players. Yet it is still totally delusional, that we can and will spend 150-200m each summer. We have never done that in the past and we won´t do it in the near future despite the new EPL tv deal. At least not without offsetting it via sales.
Furthermore just spending big is eventually not good enough.
I am not arguing that Spurs is a football powerhouse, that we can´t overtake. I am just pointing out the rather obvious: We are a mess since SAF left. We had such a huge advantage, so it was possible to make mistakes without falling behind. Yet that won´t last forever. I am not talking about some hypothetical point in the future. If we bottle another 1-3 years we are in serious danger of following Liverpool.
yes, I am very jealous of a team who haven't done something of note in around 50 years. While supporting a club who in the last 25 years has won more trophies than Spurs have first team player. Incredibly jealous. It is naive to think that money + top manager = success for each team, but it is incredibly naive to think too that all three of United, City and Chelsea will flop if they heavy spend (and in case of United get Mourinho). One of them maybe, two of them very unlikely, all three of them is close to impossible.
And for the love of Spaghetti Monster, please stop talking bullshit. Simeone won Europa league in his first season, while the European Super Cup and Copa Del Rey in his second season. Pochetino has won 'finish higher than United once' during his first two years. It isn't even comparable.
I think that more likely than not, Spurs won't finish in top 4 next season. UCL will hurt them, and all three of United, Chelsea and City will be far better. Assuming that we really get Mourinho, I think that it is between them, Liverpool and Arsenal the fourth place.
As someone who watches more football than you've had hot meals, you're talking shite. Remove the excrement from your mouth before I consider the bullshit. He was bloody class before Pep, his output was very high for the number of starts he made. He didn't see eye to eye with Mancini's methods. Big deal. One mixed season during his career doesn't take away from his ability, profile and the fact that Stoke City were able to land a player of his talents.
Bojan didn't fail at Roma, he did alright. The project never got off the ground. His wages would be high.
The fact remains that clubs at mid table level and below are now landing players that weren't even on their radar less than 5 years ago. The pulling power of the league is becoming more and more apparent every transfer window. Expect more unexpected signing from these clubs this summer.
Even Championship clubs are bringing in decent La Liga players.