Labour MP Jo Cox shot | RIP Jo Cox

Incredibly sad news.

Rational in the plotting, insane in the execution. And, one might argue, irrational in the initial intention as such thoughts are indicative of mental disorder.
Being posted before(by myself and others)in a different thread but with posting in here when talking about Mental illness and violence.

 
I'm not getting into a debate about the DSM here, the point being, it's as likely that this guy was in the middle of a psychotic break as it was a purely politically motivated attack.... in my opinion at least.

The reports of how he was acting would sort of support that, also IMO.
Yeah, sorry, not trying to derail the thread (we probably won't agree on this one anyway).
 
Can murder be reasonably viewed as an insane act, given that civilisation has taught us to supress every human's imperative: to survive and prosper at all costs, even at the expense of others?
 
Until the facts come out, maybe people would be better directing their thoughts to the poor victim and her family, rather than speculating, or claiming absolutes which, coincidently, support their own agendas.
I agree (although I hope this isn't intended for me, as I have/had no intention of doing any such thing).

Anyway, I'm out of this one.

RIP Jo Cox.
 
I agree (although I hope this isn't intended for me, as I have/had no intention of doing any such thing).

Anyway, I'm out of this one.

RIP Jo Cox.

No, wasn't directed at you, just some of the opinions in the thread.

Its genuinely like some people see something like this and their first thought is to go score some points on the internet, before they even know whats actually happened. It's pretty pathetic.
 
Really horrendous. Feel incredibly sorry for her husband and two young kids, must be a shock for them. Just a horrific situation all round.
 
They won't report it as a terrorist attack unless it is found to be one. Atm there is no indication that it is one.
No indication? She's a well known politician who's just been assassinated, thats a massive indication. Not to mention that most media oulets reporting his right wing connections/views.
 
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I want to complain about BringNaniBack lacking the self awareness to realise he's doing the exact same thing as he is accusing remain of but I feel like now Ive done that im equally as guilty for pointing out the hypocrisy of the original post.

Can't we just agree that its an utterly abhorent act, the guys a massive cnut and the tragic story is that two kids will grow up without their mother due to a sensless and deplorable act of premeditated murder?
 
Do we know the motive yet?
Not according to the news updates. Reports of the killer saying something about "Britain first" have proved to be unsubstantiated*.

*Contested - would be a better word, nothing established one way or the other as of yet.
 
Can murder be reasonably viewed as an insane act, given that civilisation has taught us to supress every human's imperative: to survive and prosper at all costs, even at the expense of others?

Exactly. Overcoming our stupidest instincts is the only way we can grow as a species.
 
Mental illness is undoubtedly the cause but given the number of witnesses who seem certain that he was shouting either "Britain First" or "Put Britain First"it seems very likely that he had hitched his illness on to white supremacy rhetoric and/or Britex stuff which is getting increasingly xenophobic. The Guardian are also hinting (stopping just short of confirming) that he was a long term member of a white supremacist organisation. Of course caution needs to be used for all such events but it seems that much of the caution is being urged by Britex supporters as they fear that this is exactly what it is being reported as and that it will damage their cause. Which it will.
 
The DSM is vague? First time I've heard anyone claim that tbh.

If anything most mental health professionals I know seem to think it's far too tightly defined, I'd share that opinion and see it as probably its biggest limitation.

In some areas it is. Hence why its constantly updated
 
On average its updated once every 12 years.

I wouldn't call that 'constantly'.

but the changes are quite radical. For example Aspergers syndrome had been wiped out from the new DSM and was incorporated to the autism spectrum. That's a big thing.
 
It just seems so unreal. The attacks in Orlando, the singer in the US being killed while performing and now Jo Cox being shot. The world could do with some peace. Whether nations and people as a whole can work together to achieve peace and end this senseless violence has to be ascertained. The world faces many issues and on top of all that, there's this violence and conflict.
 
Did this nutter actually say 'Britain first' or not?

I know it was reported when the story first broke but I thought it turned out to be unsubstantiated and there was an eyewitness denying it?

At work this morning it's all anyone is talking about. There's a Remain campaigner that works here who has brought in today's telegraph which has the 'Britain first' thing in it's headline and she's trying to turn this tragic death into a martyrdom. Everyone is raging at each other and I don't even know if the thing they are arguing about happened or not.
 
Did this nutter actually say 'Britain first' or not?

I know it was reported when the story first broke but I thought it turned out to be unsubstantiated and there was an eyewitness denying it?

At work this morning it's all anyone is talking about. There's a Remain campaigner that works here who has brought in today's telegraph which has the 'Britain first' thing in it's headline and she's trying to turn this tragic death into a martyrdom. Everyone is raging at each other and I don't even know if the thing they are arguing about happened or not.

It was reported in the 5Live news this morning that he is "alleged to have said it" so no one really knows yet.

Sad that they're all raging at each other though... it's the way that the the whole leave/remain campaigners/MPs have been raging at each other in the first place that has led to this happening IMO.
 
It just seems so unreal. The attacks in Orlando, the singer in the US being killed while performing and now Jo Cox being shot. The world could do with some peace. Whether nations and people as a whole can work together to achieve peace and end this senseless violence has to be ascertained. The world faces many issues and on top of all that, there's this violence and conflict.

To be honest when has the world ever been at peace?
 
Did this nutter actually say 'Britain first' or not?

I know it was reported when the story first broke but I thought it turned out to be unsubstantiated and there was an eyewitness denying it?

At work this morning it's all anyone is talking about. There's a Remain campaigner that works here who has brought in today's telegraph which has the 'Britain first' thing in it's headline and she's trying to turn this tragic death into a martyrdom. Everyone is raging at each other and I don't even know if the thing they are arguing about happened or not.

Guardian has two witnesses with the same story that state he did say 'Britain First' or something along those lines.

Seems there's a few papers running with it.
 
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch...longtime-supporter-neo-nazi-national-alliance

Thomas Mair, alleged killer of British MP Jo Cox, was a longtime supporter of the neo-Nazi National Alliance.

Jo Cox, a member of the Labour Party in the British Parliament, died Thursday after an attack by a lone man who shot and stabbed her in West Yorkshire following a regular public meeting she held with constituents.

Her alleged killer is Thomas Mair, 52. According to eyewitness accounts, which are still under investigation, Mair was armed with a knife and a gun, either antique or homemade, and may have shouted “Britain First” when he attacked Cox, a possible reference to the far right Britain First party, whose leader, Paul Golding, is a former member of the white nationalist British National Party. The Daily Telegraph reported that Mair’s brother claimed Mair has a “history of mental illness,” and neighbors called him a “loner,” but he also has a long history with white nationalism.

According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.

Mair, who resides in what is described as a semi-detached house on the Fieldhead Estate in Birstall, sent just over $620 to the NA, according to invoices for goods purchased from National Vanguard Books, the NA’s printing imprint. Mair purchased subscriptions for periodicals published by the imprint and he bought works that instruct readers on the “Chemistry of Powder & Explosives,” “Incendiaries,” and a work called “Improvised Munitions Handbook." Under “Section III, No. 9” (page 125) of that handbook, there are detailed instructions for constructing a “Pipe Pistol For .38 Caliber Ammunition” from components that can be purchased from nearly any hardware store.

The NA may be best-known for the work of its now-deceased founder, William Pierce, a former physics professor who also wrote racist novels. One, The Turner Diaries, tells the post-apocalyptic fictional story of a white man fighting in a race war that may have provided inspiration for Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh.

The Daily Telegraph also reported that Mair was a subscriber to S. A. Patriot, a South African magazine published by White Rhino Club, a pro-apartheid group. The club describes that magazine’s editorial stance as opposed to “multi-cultural societies” and “expansionist Islam.” According to the Daily Telegraph, a January 2006 blog post attributed to the group described Mair as “one of the earliest subscribers and supporters of S. A. Patriot.”
 
Did this nutter actually say 'Britain first' or not?

I know it was reported when the story first broke but I thought it turned out to be unsubstantiated and there was an eyewitness denying it?

At work this morning it's all anyone is talking about. There's a Remain campaigner that works here who has brought in today's telegraph which has the 'Britain first' thing in it's headline and she's trying to turn this tragic death into a martyrdom. Everyone is raging at each other and I don't even know if the thing they are arguing about happened or not.

Not sure is the right answer, but this witness says he heard him should it twice

 
When you shout BREAKING POINT over and over again, you don’t get to be surprised when someone breaks. When you present politics as a matter of life and death, as a question of national survival, don’t be surprised if someone takes you at your word. You didn’t make them do it, no, but you didn’t do much to stop it either.

Sometimes rhetoric has consequences. If you spend days, weeks, months, years telling people they are under threat, that their country has been stolen from them, that they have been betrayed and sold down the river, that their birthright has been pilfered, that their problem is they’re too slow to realise any of this is happening, that their problem is they’re not sufficiently mad as hell, then at some point, in some place, something or someone is going to snap. And then something terrible is going to happen.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/a-day-of-infamy/
 
These reports of ongoing harassment dating dating back three months could be of some relevance. It is being said that the police were considering providing protection, both at her home and whilst about her business as an MP.

People might also recall the reports of threats and abuse received by MPs following the Syria vote too. Maybe we don't supply guards for all 650 (many might even object to such in any event), but there must be some who are thought to be at higher risk than others.
 
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Part of me wants to be angry at the double standards of the media who are quick to label any murderer who could be a muslim a terrorist but if they're white the focus is on mental illness rather than ideology.

Then I kind of think I don't want the media to rush to either label so any anger here is misplaced.

It's very touching to see tributes pouring in from across the globe, I've been quite suprised. When the media have had their entertainment from the story it'll still be two young kids left without a mother, very upsetting.
 
Part of me wants to be angry at the double standards of the media who are quick to label any murderer who could be a muslim a terrorist but if they're white the focus is on mental illness rather than ideology.

If he turns out to be another David Copeland, i don't think there will be any hesitation in classifying this man as a terrorist.
 
Anyone that kills in the name of something else or someone else is suffering some form of mental illness. Whether it's Allah Akbar or Britain First is irrelevant.
 
Guardian - Monitoring group says that suspect acquired gun manuals from neo-Nazis .
 
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Anyone that kills in the name of something else or someone else is suffering some form of mental illness. Whether it's Allah Akbar or Britain First is irrelevant.

I think the point he's making is, if it was Allah Akbar he shouted, we'd only be hearing about how he's a Muslim terrorist and nothing about his mental illness. But anyway, it's irrelevant for the time being. We should let the police do their job and draw conclusions when we know more.
 
Anyone that kills in the name of something else or someone else is suffering some form of mental illness. Whether it's Allah Akbar or Britain First is irrelevant.

So all terrorists have some form of mental illness?
 
Part of me wants to be angry at the double standards of the media who are quick to label any murderer who could be a muslim a terrorist but if they're white the focus is on mental illness rather than ideology.

Then I kind of think I don't want the media to rush to either label so any anger here is misplaced.

It's very touching to see tributes pouring in from across the globe, I've been quite suprised. When the media have had their entertainment from the story it'll still be two young kids left without a mother, very upsetting.

It's always the case. If he were black he'd most likely be labelled a thug.

It's too early to draw conclusions of course, but he'll likely just be another mentally ill, lone wolf who doesn't represent his race.
 
Short memories here, the far-right ideologies of the likes of Breivik and Dylann Roof were extensively gone into by the media. Both were labelled terrorism.
 
Did this nutter actually say 'Britain first' or not?

I know it was reported when the story first broke but I thought it turned out to be unsubstantiated and there was an eyewitness denying it?

At work this morning it's all anyone is talking about. There's a Remain campaigner that works here who has brought in today's telegraph which has the 'Britain first' thing in it's headline and she's trying to turn this tragic death into a martyrdom. Everyone is raging at each other and I don't even know if the thing they are arguing about happened or not.

There is a witness who says he heard the words "(Put) Britain first" so I guess we can only take his word for it and the fact others didn't hear it doesn't mean it wasn't said.

There is all sorts coming out about the guy now so at the very least he does seem to have some odd thoughts.

The receipt showing his purchases referred to in #266 above...

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