Only just over a quarter of the population voted to leave.
Sign this Petition!
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Only just over a quarter of the population voted to leave.
I'm not convinced that's actually true tho, many people had protest votes and regret it already. Many feel lied to and I'm certain that many people who wanted to remain didn't vote because they felt over confident. A revote tomorrow and I'm certain remain would win
David Cameron tweeted in May: "The Leave campaign is wrong to say there'll be a 2nd referendum if we vote to remain in the EU. This is a referendum and not a neverendum."
I just think a lot of people voted on the basis of what they were hearing from Farage and the like. It's been 24 hours and they have already backtracked on a couple of the main issues, NHS and immigration.
I think some of the leave voters have realized there was a lot of lies that they took hook line and sinker, I'd be very surprised if they managed to win a second referendum.
Out of the people who voted only 48.1% voted remain.
So this has to reach 17m before having a chance of happening ?
I'd still imagine over half of the population didn't actually want it, agreed that's not how democracy works, but remain areas showed much lower turnout and 16-17 year olds would have overwhelmingly voted to stay.
Regarding that last bit I'm not certain they would. I think for remain to win there would have to be a whole new campaign first. They'd have to actually make a valid attempt to explain to people what the benefits (trade, working/living/even going on holiday to Europe easily etc) As opposed to just attempting to ridicule the leave campaigners and hoping that all the working class people they've been a bit shitty for God knows how long to would just back them anyway.
Yeh ok that's fair enough, I think the remain campaign could and should have gone about the whole thing better but one thing I think they will learn is that they need to twist the truth more to make it what people want to hear just as the leave campaign has done. I still think this decision could be changed over the next couple of years
16-17 year olds should definitely not be voting. The vast, vast majority of them would've gone with whatever their mum and dad wen't because they don't know any better.
I do agree not over half the population wanted it though. 25% ish probably didn't, just less than that did and just over half either didn't give a feck or were unable to vote at all.
That's a different can of worms all together but if you'd spent a day in a college and had seen how interested the students were in the referendum, I'd hope it would change your mind.
Yeah I think both campaigns were extremely poor. It seemed to me like most of the population who voted didn't really know what they were voting for for either side. The referendum came at a poor time for remain just because Labour are in such a state right now so the spearhead for remain was David Cameron, who everyone quite rightfully despises. I agree that in a couple of years it may well get changed again. The big shame is out of all of this is David Cameron would've been able to reform our agreement with the EU and get us an actual good deal none of this would've happened.
Yeah but there's a difference between being interested and actually knowing what's the best to vote for. Although saying that most adults on either side didn't know what they were voting for so they wouldn't be alone on that one.
Didn't the Scottish referendum require a certain percentage?
I didnt get to vote, as many due to the travel problems
I didnt get to vote, as many due to the travel problems
Nah, look at it from terms of percentage.
33.5m voted in the Referendum. So 1% is 335k, the petition will probably exceed 1.6m which is 5%. If it gets to 3.3m then you're looking at 10%. Those type of figures cannot be ignored.
Given the amount of backtracking the Leave campaign are now doing, there would be solid grounds for a 2nd Referendum. This is always the issue though with not outlining specific rules with the Referendum though, just because a side won doesn't mean it should be backed. What would have happened if 49.9% voted remain and 50.1% voted leave? You can't allow such an important result be decided by a few percent, that's just my personal opinion. There should have been a clear marker for both sides to reach for the Referendum to be declared a "win".
Surely when you take part in a democratic process, you do so knowing the consequences of the result.
It seems ridiculous to suggest that referendum's should be rerun until you get the result you want.
As for the petition's stipulation that referendum's should be rerun unless turnout is over 75%, all one side has to do is not to vote en masse in order to keep the turnout less than 75%. This totally scuppers the mechanics of this petition. It's absurd.
It seems ridiculous to suggest that referendum's should be rerun until you get the result you want.
As for the petition's stipulation that referendum's should be rerun unless turnout is over 75%, all one side has to do is not to vote en masse in order to keep the turnout less than 75%. This totally scuppers the mechanics of this petition. It's absurd.
Sadly this petition is beyond ridiculous. Not only will it not result in a parliamentary discussion (it will just be rejected outright no matter how many people sign it) but it's absurd to think that signing it is 'sending a message' that will be somehow more powerful than the actual vote people placed only two days ago.
You don't know that. But I do agree with the "sending a message" point. I signed it as i'm pissed off and want to actually try and make a difference and this is the only way I can.
fwiw, I don't think it's ridiculous though, the pressures already starting to mount on the Government, Leave Campaigners are already backtracking on their Campaign points. If they have a petition with 3million people signing it then at least they'd have grounds to consider a 2nd Referendum to get us out of this mess. We're providing them with an excuse to at least discuss it. That's something and better than nothing.
That's exactly part of the problem.
One of the remain campaign problems all along was getting the rich and privileged celebs/personalities to speak on their behalf. That's never going to swing with the normal working class person. I like beckham but his kids will go to private schools, they'll have private healthcare, never have any issues in life whatsoever etc etc plus he spends most of the year in LA not England they're so far detached from reality and have no idea what it's like in modern day Britain.
I'm sure you saw the disgusting picture of geldolf sticking fingers up at the fisherman who were having a peaceful protest, geldolf and his hangers-on come along make that sort of gesture and blast music out loud to quieten the leave campaigners who were causing no trouble.
It's acts like this that didn't help remains campaign and could've swayed people to vote leave.
About 17 million people already made it clear they wanted to remain by taking part in a democratic voting process on Thursday - that message is surely very clear to everyone in power. But why do you think a petition is going to reverse that democratically taken decision, even if all 17M people who voted remain sign a petition? That would be entirely undemocratic. Unfortunately it is absolutely ridiculous to think this will have any effect.
No. The 75% turnout bit only comes into play if the majority side has less than 60% of the votes.
I think you're missing the point. Do you think it's a fair result when the winning campaign has already started to do a u-turn on their biggest campaign points? Explain how democratic that is when all they've done is to lie to 17.4m people?
While the other 16.1m people look on tearing their hair out knowing that the campaign was all bullshit in the first place.
Out of the mouths of babes (oft times come gems) …
Remember that time Nigel Farage said 52-48 votes should lead to second referendum?
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/remem...tes-should-lead-to-second-referendum-5963900/
Remember that time Nigel Farage said 52-48 votes should lead to second referendum?
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/remem...tes-should-lead-to-second-referendum-5963900/
16-17 year olds voted in the Scottish referendum and that was completely fine. I think if we're expecting 16 year olds to be capable of joining the armed forces, they should be able to have a say in what has a dramatic impact on their future.
It wasn't the younger generation that wanted out …
Exactly but they will be dealing with the consequences.
I was agreeing with your point
You like freedom of speech until someone says something you don't agree with. You like democracy until the electorate make a decision you don't agree with.
I totally agree it is not right, but that's a separate and larger issue about holding politicians to account for their promises; an issue which does not affect only this referendum - for example, written-down manifesto pledges in a general election often do not actually become legislation. That issue within the democratic process surely needs to be addressed or risk the credibility of democracy itself (there is another post on this topic on here somewhere). But the answer to that issue cannot (and, at least to me, quite obviously will not) be to simply throw out a result that was reached via our currently accepted definition of democratic process.
Let's say there was a 2nd referendum tomorrow and Reamin won 52-48, then what? Set up another one to make it best of 3?
I signed it, but they didnt send me an email
Actually they did sent it me, at 1am
Actually they did sent it me, at 1am
It's amazing how quickly it's risen. At time of you writing the post, it was at 200,000 or so. It's now at 1.4m.
I think a referendum on the exit terms when (if) renegotiated might be reasonable
Though an interesting dilemma would be if renegotiation drags on past 2020or there is an early general election called and we end with an government elected on a manifesto that pledged to remain (or hold a second referendum) Then I guess that mandate would take precident
Though an interesting dilemma would be if renegotiation drags on past 2020or there is an early general election called and we end with an government elected on a manifesto that pledged to remain (or hold a second referendum) Then I guess that mandate would take precident
But if people feel lied to and feel like the whole process was a sham then shouldn't they be given a right to change their vote? This isn't like the General Election given that you can correct your wrong after 4 years (granted that's still a long time but still relatively short in politics). But the last Referendum we had on the EU was 1975, 41 years ago! This isn't a short term solution. So given the ramifications of the Leave Campaign uturning shouldn't that be grounds to do a 2nd Referendum?
I guess we'll see what happens. But given the EU want a swift response it doesn't feel like we can fanny around and wait a few months for the dust to settle as it could well be to late by then.
People can say what they like about "that's not how democracy works", "sour grapes" and all that jazz but this is going to be the most well supported petition we have ever seen.
It'll be >2.5 million signatures by the end of the day and still seems to be gathering pace.
Maybe this event is what was needed to encourage greater engagement in our political system and bring about a new age of British politics.
It'll be >2.5 million signatures by the end of the day and still seems to be gathering pace.
Maybe this event is what was needed to encourage greater engagement in our political system and bring about a new age of British politics.
I get the anger, but simply, no, that's not how our democracy works today
A better petition in my view, and one that might have some effect, would be something to address holding politician's to account in referendums and general elections for the promises they make.It almost certainly won't get up to 18million... But I think that is what it would need to do to force a 2nd referendum as I can't see the conservatives sanctioning another as it would probably split the party too much
I think we should leave those things to the politicians that we already elected - the population have already successfully demonstrated this week that they should not be given too much responsibility in decision making
.It won't reach those figures and the Conservatives may not respond directly to the petition.
What it does is establish a base for further actions. If it were to end up with 5 million signatures then that is the basis for a huge political movement in its own right. I'd be amazed if interest groups, protest movements, even new political parties and the like don't emerge from such an outcome. The established political parties don't have active membership of anywhere near the same scale. If only a third of 5 million people could be mobilised then the impact they could have is pretty significant.
When you add this to the pressure that big business (the financial sector, multi-nationals) could possibly exert if they see the opportunity and I don't see it too unimaginable that the government might consider some sort of concessions or rethink.
I signed it just for the hell of it.
Won't make a pick of difference but sure, any minute chance of common sense being reconsidered.
Won't make a pick of difference but sure, any minute chance of common sense being reconsidered.