Sign this Petition!

rcoobc said:
It's a completely pointless petition. But I've signed it anyway.

I'd have thought you'd be better of saying the legality of the referendum was void because of the lies told by the leave campaign. £350 million more to spend on the NHS being the key claim. You can add that because it was so close, it has to be rendered void, but the premise of this one is stupid.

Still, signed.
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i don't think mp's would touch that with a barge poll if every time an MP lied to win a vote there had to be a re-vote then no election in history would count

so i think u'd have to go through the courts to get that sorted, and i don't know how it works, i don't think the courts can over rule parliament if an election/vote was won on false pretences..... be great if that happened though, imagine politics where politicians couldn't lie, it would make the world such a better place!
 
Ducklegs said:
Not by the people writing petitions unfortunately.
I still believe this will just be a mexican stand off between the UK and the EU.
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I wouldn't agree with that. The way the EU has reacted to the result, and the fact that both Cameron and the EU Comissioner have bother resigned tells me that it's a serious thing and if pushed, Article 50 will be enacted as soon as possible.
Now with the European Parliament President coming out and saying our relationship with the EU was ambiguous for the last 40 years, and now they want us out as quick as possible tells me that there is no going back now. Even if we did have a change of heart, the reception we get would be extremely frosty at best. The EU sees this as us turning our back on them and wanting to bail when 'things get difficult'.

RedSky said:
You do yes and although I've not seen it drop if you look above you'll see someone say they have seen it. GeoIP would be the obvious way.
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So pretty much anyone in Europe, or in the world could sign that petition using a fake but verified email and a fake name and address. The only way to tell if it was truly GeoIP locked is for someone in the US or Europe to try and sign it, but i don't know if that would result in any trouble for the person doing it
 
Nytram Shakes said:
i don't think mp's would touch that with a barge poll if every time an MP lied to win a vote there had to be a re-vote then no election in history would count

so i think u'd have to go through the courts to get that sorted, and i don't know how it works, i don't think the courts can over rule parliament if an election/vote was won on false pretences..... be great if that happened though, imagine politics where politicians couldn't lie, it would make the world such a better place!
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Maybe not, but I'd like someone to try a lawsuit anyway
 
Untied said:
Well I actually voted for a party that opposed holding a referendum in its 2015 manifesto.
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That's nice, but appearantly that party didn't get the power to prevent the referendum beeing held in democratic way.
 
settembrini said:
Some of the mental gymnastics by people upset at the result are amazing.

Over and over again I see people post that this matter was too important to be left to the citizenship and should have been decided by our elected representatives because they are, supposedly, more intelligent and informed than the 'average voter'. They believe the very idea of having a referendum was idiocy. But the referendum came from our MPs. It was planned by the Prime Minister and voted through parliament. Their line of reasoning is essentially: 'ordinary people are too stupid to know what to do, we should have left it to the morons who were stupid enough to trust the ordinary people'.
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One of the better counter arguments I have seen, but the argument is that it shouldn't have been something our elected representatives were able to put to a referendum. Just as, for instance, amendments to the US constitution require a 2/3 majority in both houses and a 3/4 majority of state legislatures. Calling a referendum to solve a short term party political issue has created a contradiction at the heart of our democracy. If Brexit is to proceed MPs have to vote against their own beliefs.
 
Dr. Funkenstein said:
That's nice, but appearantly that party didn't get the power to prevent the referendum beeing held in democratic way.
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I can see this isn't going to be a fruitful conversation :lol:

Dr. Funkenstein: You should have opposed the referendum before it was called instead of moaning about it now

Me: I did. I voted against it in 2015.

Dr. Funkenstein: That's nice. It didn't work

Me: …
 
dove said:
Seriously, there is only 1 sentence in this petition and you still can't read it properly.
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The proposition as I understood it was asking for a question of this magnitude to require a higher representation of the registered voting public to ensure its validity, obviously i misread that, as what it is actually asking for is something that would make no difference to how representative the result is either way compared to what we had two days ago.

Lets take the registered voting public as 10 people:

In this example, we accept the result based on 60% of the turn out:

The election in 2001 had a 59.4% turn out.
59.4% of 10 is 5.94
60% of 5.94
3.564

So three and a half people decide the future of 10.

or we go to the extreme where we accept the result because the turnout exceeds 75%

the highest turn out in recent history was 95% in 1950.
95% of 10 is 9.5
50.01% of 9 is 4.5009

4.5 and a bit people decide the future of ten.


we had a 72% turn out this referendum.
72% of 10 is 7.2

52% of 7.2 is.................................

3.74.

So what does his proposition change exactly?

If we based the results of the voting on the last 5 elections, it would of used the "60%" part of his formula as all were less than 75% turn out, and would of resulted in 4.2 (1997) 3.54 (2001) 3.6 (2005) 3.9 (2010) 3.96 (2015)

All delivering results on less than 40% of the registered electorate bar one.

If we based it on what i though it meant, it would require a minimum turnout of 75% (7.5) and 60% of those (4.5) to deliver an acceptable result which would be as close to a result calculated on a 50.01% on the highest turnout (95%) in modern history.

Thoughts?
 
Brownie85 said:
I wouldn't agree with that. The way the EU has reacted to the result, and the fact that both Cameron and the EU Comissioner have bother resigned tells me that it's a serious thing and if pushed, Article 50 will be enacted as soon as possible.
Now with the European Parliament President coming out and saying our relationship with the EU was ambiguous for the last 40 years, and now they want us out as quick as possible tells me that there is no going back now. Even if we did have a change of heart, the reception we get would be extremely frosty at best. The EU sees this as us turning our back on them and wanting to bail when 'things get difficult'.


So pretty much anyone in Europe, or in the world could sign that petition using a fake but verified email and a fake name and address. The only way to tell if it was truly GeoIP locked is for someone in the US or Europe to try and sign it, but i don't know if that would result in any trouble for the person doing it
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I would not pay too much attention to any posturing from the EU he has to be seen to be tough in the aftermath of the result, but the deck is against him. We contribute a massive amount of money in contributions and provide an massive amount of income in trade, I dont see any situation where we leave the EU quite frankly.
We are also a permanent and powerful member of NATO.
The German car lobby alone will be putting the thumbscrews on everyone in town to change their language and sort the situation out, as we are worth half a million luxury saloons a year to them.

Nothing that is said in the coming weeks or months is of any relevance at all.

There will be renegotiation or capitulation on one side or the other before the year is out.
 
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Ducklegs said:
The proposition as I understood it was asking for a question of this magnitude to require a higher representation of the registered voting public to ensure its validity, obviously i misread that, as what it is actually asking for is something that would make no difference to how representative the result is either way compared to what we had two days ago.

Lets take the registered voting public as 10 people:

In this example, we accept the result based on 60% of the turn out:

The election in 2001 had a 59.4% turn out.
59.4% of 10 is 5.94
60% of 5.94
3.564

So three and a half people decide the future of 10.

or we go to the extreme where we accept the result because the turnout exceeds 75%

the highest turn out in recent history was 95% in 1950.
95% of 10 is 9.5
50.01% of 9 is 4.5009

4.5 and a bit people decide the future of ten.


we had a 72% turn out this referendum.
72% of 10 is 7.2

52% of 7.2 is.................................

3.74.

So what does his proposition change exactly?

If we based the results of the voting on the last 5 elections, it would of used the "60%" part of his formula as all were less than 75% turn out, and would of resulted in 4.2 (1997) 3.54 (2001) 3.6 (2005) 3.9 (2010) 3.96 (2015)

All delivering results on less than 40% of the registered electorate bar one.

If we based it on what i though it meant, it would require a minimum turnout of 75% (7.5) and 60% of those (4.5) to deliver an acceptable result which would be as close to a result calculated on a 50.01 on the highest turnout (95%) in modern history.

Thoughts?
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I have never said this petition is perfect. However it attracted a lot of media attention and currently has over 2 million signatures. What if it reaches 5, 10 million? There will still be a vote in parliament as this referendum is not legal binding. Leave won by a very small margin, we have a biggest petition in history, quite a few big companies already mentioned plans to move to continent, leave campaign leaders already admitted that the things they promised was a lie. Although I agree the chance is quite slim but it's still possible that parliament will vote to remain.
 
Even though nothing will come of this petition, Just out of interest is there actually anyway to tell the people that sign these petitions are uk citizens?

Or is it just a case of having an email address handy if so it renders the whole petition void from the start if anyone in the world can sign it
 
dannyrhinos89 said:
Even though nothing will come of this petition, Just out of interest is there actually anyway to tell the people that sign these petitions are uk citizens?

Or is it just a case of having an email address handy if so it renders the whole petition void from the start if anyone in the world can sign it
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You can see people from other countries sign it here: http://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=131215

But they are removing ineligible votes. Went down by around 50k last night.
 
dove said:
I have never said this petition is perfect. However it attracted a lot of media attention and currently has over 2 million signatures. What if it reaches 5, 10 million? There will still be a vote in parliament as this referendum is not legal binding. Leave won by a very small margin, we have a biggest petition in history, quite a few big companies already mentioned plans to move to continent. Although I agree the chance is quite slim but it's still possible that parliament will vote to remain.
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Thats the point of the petition, and the debate in question.

Why would we pay any attention to a petition that is asking for something that would of made no difference at all?

At what point do people need to accept that the vote is done? how loaded does the formula need to be before people will accept the result?

How much more representative can it be that more than half of the people that bothered to voted for something?
If his formula had been in place on Thursday it would returned of needed a return of 4.32 on the 72% turn out.
If we had a 75% turn out, we can ONLY assume that the split would of still been 52% in favour and would of returned 3.9

3.9

Its a nonsense of a question.

The question should be " we the undersigned demand a revote" then you would snatch up some of the people from the leave side who might of changed their mind, rather than asking for some idiotic formula that changes nothing to be applied to the referendum.
 
dannyrhinos89 said:
Even though nothing will come of this petition, Just out of interest is there actually anyway to tell the people that sign these petitions are uk citizens?

Or is it just a case of having an email address handy if so it renders the whole petition void from the start if anyone in the world can sign it
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They'll match your name up to your postcode using the electoral role, I'd imagine.
 
Ducklegs said:
Its amazing, the density of people asking for a the formula to be applied matches the density of votes for those who wanted to remain.
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Or maybe they are just some of the most densely populated areas.
 
So from that link scrolling down to the uk part it says the uk have only contributed 354,887 signatures that can't be right surely it's more than that.
 
dannyrhinos89 said:
So from that link scrolling down to the uk part it says the uk have only contributed 354,887 signatures that can't be right surely it's more than that.
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It doesn't include the constituencies at the bottom.

Someone on reddit counted them all up about an hour ago and at the time the votes from non-UK or the constituencies added up to around 60k. Will probably be more now.
 
rcoobc said:
Maybe not, but I'd like someone to try a lawsuit anyway
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in theory a business could sue fargae and anyone else who made the nhs claim for loss of earnings and i think they would have a pretty good case as them lying has directly affected many businesses.

i know that not quite what your hoping for, but thats a case that is possible if somone has the money and will to do it.
 
Untied said:
I can see this isn't going to be a fruitful conversation :lol:

Dr. Funkenstein: You should have opposed the referendum before it was called instead of moaning about it now

Me: I did. I voted against it in 2015.

Dr. Funkenstein: That's nice. It didn't work

Me: …
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No, I didn't say you should have just opposed the referendum. Democracy isn't about giving your opinion, how well thougt through it might be. There were democratic means to prevent the referendum from happening and if you or your party don't try or don't succeed than you have to accept that there is going to be a referendum as the outcome of the democratic process. Appearently some point in time you were outnumbered on the issue of referenda, that's how democracy works. You win and others accept the consequence, you lose and you accept the consequence. You've lost twice and the first loss doesn't justifie not accepting the second loss.
 
Dr. Funkenstein said:
No, I didn't say you should have just opposed the referendum. Democracy isn't about giving your opinion, how well thougt through it might be. There were democratic means to prevent the referendum from happening and if you or your party don't try or don't succeed than you have to accept that there is going to be a referendum as the outcome of the democratic process. Appearently some point in time you were outnumbered on the issue of referenda, that's how democracy works. You win and others accept the consequence, you lose and you accept the consequence. You've lost twice and the first loss doesn't justifie not accepting the second loss.
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Politics isn't a sport. You shouldn't just put up and shut up when you lose. Especially a victory for the far right and facists in our country. And as if UKIP would have packed up on a 52-48 result :lol:
 
As much as I think this whole referendum has been a bit of a shitshow, it's a bit uncomfortable to see so many people cool at overturning something that was democratic.
 
Sigma said:
You can just put in a postcode you googled.
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yeah i get that, but what was confusing me is that people where talking about a certain amount of signatures been from outside the uk..... how can that be if you have to put in your post code?
 
Cheesy said:
As much as I think this whole referendum has been a bit of a shitshow, it's a bit uncomfortable to see so many people cool at overturning something that was democratic.
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We're saying that a decision with such major implications and so incredibly divisive should require a greater mandate.
 
Why didn't David Cameron have the foresight to impose a target majority on a referendum of such massive importance?
 
Untied said:
We're saying that a decision with such major implications and so incredibly divisive should require a greater mandate.
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But why does the status quo not then also require a greater mandate? If you're holding a referendum, it's unfair to give one side an automatic advantage. If we didn't want such a major decision to occur like this, we shouldn't have voted in the Tories. And if we didn't want that to happen, we should've agreed to change the voting system. But we didn't. We have to live with the consequences of what's happened, even though I think it's fecking shite that a bunch of lies and older generations have perhaps put my future in jeopardy.
 
You cant change the rules just because it wasn't the result you wanted. It wouldn't be very democratic to overrule the democratic decision of the country would it. If it was a remain vote, would there be a second referendum? No there wouldn't be. This is ridiculous, the democratic decision has been made and that is final.
 
BringNaniBack said:
You cant change the rules just because it wasn't the result you wanted. It wouldn't be very democratic to overrule the democratic decision of the country would it. If it was a remain vote, would there be a second referendum? No there wouldn't be. This is ridiculous, the democratic decision has been made and that is final.
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It's a suggestion not a final decision.
 
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