Social cohesion post-Brexit: let 'em rot?

Actually, anyone who thinks Polish people have only been here for 5 minutes clearly knows nothing about our history. They were our allies in the last war and many settled here afterwards, because we made it possible for them to come. Poles have lived in this country in large numbers for the last 60 or 70 years.

We should never forget what they did for us in the Battle of Britain and in many other theatres of war.
 
I normally approach things from a centre left viewpoint. I had a lot of sympathy for those left behind by globalisation etc, and my viewpoint was that we need education, training and proper redistribution of income to help.

But honestly, let them rot. The referendum has shown that a vast majority are quite frankly bitter, stupid ingrates. The irony of labelling anyone with an education or the temerity to use facts in the argument as an elitist, when a lot of these people feel there are 'elite' themselves. But not by their contribution to society, their hard graft but because they were born white British and their grandparents fought in the war or something. They feel a sense of entitlement, and refuse to accept that the world has moved on; low value added manufacturing tasks can be done in another country for half the cost. I can't understand the reverse snobbery, nor the clinging to British exceptionalism. If there is British exceptionalism it's in our outsized commerce, political, financial and cultural influence for a small island nation. All of which fecked by voting to leave.
 
Penna said:
Actually, anyone who thinks Polish people have only been here for 5 minutes clearly knows nothing about our history. They were our allies in the last war and many settled here afterwards, because we made it possible for them to come. Poles have lived in this country in large numbers for the last 60 or 70 years.

We should never forget what they did for us in the Battle of Britain and in many other theatres of war.
Click to expand...

Only the morons that have a problem with immigrants can't tell because their descendants are white and speak with English accents.
 
Penna said:
Actually, anyone who thinks Polish people have only been here for 5 minutes clearly knows nothing about our history. They were our allies in the last war and many settled here afterwards, because we made it possible for them to come. Poles have lived in this country in large numbers for the last 60 or 70 years.

We should never forget what they did for us in the Battle of Britain and in many other theatres of war.
Click to expand...
I know, it is disgusting how they are being treated. I have the utmost respect for them.
 
Jippy said:
I'm a natural Tory voter but won't vote for BJ/Gove. Labour is least credible when it is needed most. Feels like the whole country is ripping itself apart.
My mother is happy- she voted for out, up in E Yorks and says it shows how the rest of the country feels about London, and in turn, the EU.
Feels like we are on the brink of something drastic and bad.
Click to expand...
I have never voted Tory but I am planning to join so I can vote for whoever will be the most credible alternative for tory leader.

I'm so angry about this. And where the feck is he hiding now?
 
Penna said:
Actually, anyone who thinks Polish people have only been here for 5 minutes clearly knows nothing about our history. They were our allies in the last war and many settled here afterwards, because we made it possible for them to come. Poles have lived in this country in large numbers for the last 60 or 70 years.

We should never forget what they did for us in the Battle of Britain and in many other theatres of war.
Click to expand...

The prejudice began with that farmer in The Battle of Britain who held one up with his pitchfork after his Spitfire was shot down.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
I'm starting to wonder whether Labour (under a new leader) can strike some sort of pact with the Greens, Lib Dems and maybe even the SNP (if we have an election before Scottish independence kicks into gear). Go all out as a loose progressive coalition. I'm really worried about a bonfire of employment rights and environmental protections by a hard-right Tory party after we leave the EU.
Click to expand...
I think this is something that is really important that hasn't had the attention it deserves. I dont want to end up like the US where people get 5 days paid leave per uear and can be fired with minimal notice.
 
Gol123 said:
There are two voters who voted leave: Baby bloomers and Lower class.

Baby bloomers were born just after/during the war.
Click to expand...

I came in here ready to vent my own frustrations and wallow in our shared misery, but instead I thought i'd draw attention to Gol's use of the term baby bloomers. The perfect antidote to my current mood. :)
 
Globule said:
I came in here ready to vent my own frustrations and wallow in our shared misery, but instead I thought i'd draw attention to Gol's use of the term baby bloomers. The perfect antidote to my current mood. :)
Click to expand...
I'd rather bloom than boom.
 
I find the labeling of well educated people as well off and pouring scorn on them quite frankly detestable.
I am doing my masters at The University of Birmingham and I only have £30 in my account and nothing else in my name.
This referendum had nothing to do with class.
I am poor too.
 
rpitroda said:
I'm going to speak what's on my heart and mind right now - it is probably overly dramatic and I'm sure plenty will raise eyebrows but I can't help how I feel.

Firstly, I'm British. I was born here. But my ethnic origin is Indian. Maybe I'm in a very small minority, but for the first time in my life I genuinely feel hesitant, for use of a better word, that I'm not welcome here. I know that's a massive overreaction and probably not true, but believe me I've thought on it and tried to shake it, but for the first time I have a voice in the back of my head that is telling me, making me doubt for the first time, whether i belong here. I look at people when I board the train and wonder what they're thinking. I walk the streets and I wonder if anyone's thought in their mind, "I wish he wasn't here".

Secondly, I'm openly a labour voter normally. I very much believe that if I'm wealthy, and I earn well, then a fair share of my wealth should be taken to help the poorer less well off. That's not to say I enjoy paying taxes, who does? But I'm comfortable and morally happy in feeling I should do my bit. That's changed. Some voters voted leave because they have read the facts and made up their mind. No problem. Some voted leave because of personal experience which has affected them and their view. No problem. But some voted as a feck you to establishment. Some voted because they look at the glamour and wealth of London (where I work) with disgust and jealousy. Some voted because they just wanted to kick those who work hard and pay their fair share in the teeth. This has changed my view. Londons wealth is what drives everyone else's economies. I'm the first to know and admit that the wealth London generates isn't distributed fairly, let's say, over the country. And I know that many decisions are with London in mind at the neglect of the rest of the country. Yet, these voters seem to forget that if they hit London, they only will get hit about 50x as hard. Yet just to put their ego on top, they wanted it. They did it. And now, I think, feck this shit tax that I pay to help some of these people, however small a portion gets to them. If they want to give us the finger, perhaps it's time I did too.

Finally, putting aside the economics of it all, it deeply upsets me that the people whom I live near, share the same town, county, and country with, have become so insular. So inward looking. So nationalist. I believe in embracing cultures, embracing people, embracing the world. Working together trying to make it a better place in all that. It feels like we have turned our back on these principles that I believe in so deeply.

Bottom line, there is a huge divide. And frankly when I think of those people from Sunderland who are poor and don't get much support or jobs, I think feck you too. Go and rot.

I hate I feel that way. But sadly, I do. I think that if Boris does come in, and god knows I would hate it, I think of these people who voted in this way with a smirk knowing that they will get absolutely screwed over by this.

I genuinely think the divide between London especially and some other parts of the U.K. is simply too big to fix. The gulf in fundamental beliefs is so significant that it's almost like it's not the same country. In fact I would go as far as saying it's more different than some whole countries are from one another.

It's significant. And something has to happen. It might not be now, but one day it'll be enough is enough and we will have a real issue.

One day on, I thought I'd have calmed a bit. But I haven't. I still feel insecure in my "wantedness" here. I still think so badly of those wankers who voted leave for the wrong reasons. And I can't stand the idea of someone voting leave.

We could be in a world where Trump and BoJo are leaders of two great countries. What a shame that'd be, and how scary, too.
Click to expand...
Good post, you are certainly not alone. I know lots of my close non british friends and myself (British), are starting to think that the UK isn't the place we thought it was. Its sad.
 
Zarlak said:
Yeah, I would like to know them. Maybe I can educate myself, or the rest of us can educate ourselves because nobody ever named any of these experts supporting the leave campaign in like, the last few months.

I don't have an issue with anyone having a different opinion, I'm just interested to see where that opinion comes from. Most of the time it seems to be nowhere, or Boris Johnson, or Michael Gove, or Britain first. You question them about it and they distance themselves away from it with 'no I made my own mind up' but when you ask where they informed themselves they seem not to want to say. My own suspicion is because they don't have any credible source but want you to think they did. Or they did infact take their information from Boris Johnson for example but because they know how much of a dickhead he is they don't want to say his name and prove any point. So I'm genuinely interested to find out where it came from. I'm happy to be wrong. All the experts pretty much were in favour of remain, so if there were masses of them that were not then maybe they should have been more vocal or the leave voters should have brought them up in any of the debates to counter the expert opinion that the remain side brought forward instead of just replying with 'scaremongering'.
Click to expand...
There are lot of high profile business folk on both sides of the debate tbf.
There's a bunch named here, but the likes of James Dyson, John Caudwell and John Mills all pro-leave.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referen...ers-backing-brexit-want-uk-vote-leave-1545548
 
Vooon said:
This is basically the result of the unhinged and blind belief in the greatness of the free market as a driving force for a better life for everyone isn't it? Again mostly the big hard on of the entire conservative/right spectre of European politics, although to a degree you find the same thing going on in the labour movement as well. What happened to Keynes and FDR's New Deal?
Click to expand...
FDR is interesting in that respect, but Eisenhower's days might even be more interesting. Both of them and their society and idea's would now be 'unamerican', they would be 'socialist' and therefore not 'capitalist'. You've got to give it to 'them' they've got their marketing together. Our markets are highly regulated in favour of the big players, but we call them free markets. We have all kinds of government made legal constructions concerning shares, stock, printing money, mortgages, buying company's with money from the company (certain football clubs for example), but it's presented as if this is just private parties doing there bussiness without governments and this is just capatilism in it's one and only form. It seems like a perversion of capitalism to me. We praise company's like Apple and pharmaceuticals for their innovation while 90% of the science behind it comes from public funded universities. We even assume real belief in this ideology by those who benefit most, and that they are not just talking out of self interest. But day in day out we hear those words with their percieved meaning, we get stock exchange news everyday like it's important to all of us and the real economy. And day in day out we hear about Europe, while it's about the EU, the political institution exercising power over only a part of Europe.

This kind of newspeak has even won the moderate left wing over. Especially those from 'the third way' fail to identify the enemy. Yes, unemployment is the big problem, but all those social democratic European nations cheered the growth of their financial sectors because those are jobs too. Now most European countries have a financial sector that is about 7% of their GDP, that's seems a lot of money that has to be made elsewhere, by actually producing something for example, and is paid for what service exactly? We used to be able to save, loan, invest, speculate and transfer money at costs that only amounted to 1% of GDP.

What happened to Keynes? Bretton Woods maybe?

settembrini said:
Good post.

I fear your best case scenario is a lot longer away than two years though, more like two decades. The EU is just so staggeringly out of touch with what people actually want that it will have to be pushed to near collapse before true reform is possible.
Click to expand...
The Brexit is a good start. But I don't believe the problem is that they are out of touch with what people want, they are, but I think they are very much in touch with what big companies want and as they're not democratically elected or controlled, they don't care about what the people want. They will have to be forced, and with never saying 'no' and getting wobbly knees as soon as someone threatens with recession that won't happen.

DomesticTadpole said:
I agree that the EU has a lot of flaws and needs to change and I would imagine there are people who voted leave did it for that reason. However I am now sure that most that voted leave are not even considering the EU, but immigration and they are now showing their true colours. They would be the sort who discriminate against the minorities back in the 50's and 60's when people moved here from the West Indies etc to get work. We weren't in the EU then.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but there are perfectly reasonable left wing reasons to be against the current immigration policy. Mass immigration from much poorer countries serves the haves at the expense of the native have nots. But they have successfully advertised immigration as something only racists, bigots and xenophobes are opposed to, effectively shutting the left wing up about it.


I think we should be fighting for change from being in the EU, not watching from the outside and then trying to crawl back years later.
Click to expand...
How is that fighting from within been going, let's say the last two decades?
 
Adisa said:
I find the labeling of well educated people as well off and pouring scorn on them quite frankly detestable.
I am doing my masters at The University of Birmingham and I only have £30 in my account and nothing else in my name.
This referendum had nothing to do with class.
I am poor too.
Click to expand...
Agreed. My brother is a lab manager at Imperial and academia/science is not exactly hedge fund manager pay!
 
Penna said:
Actually, anyone who thinks Polish people have only been here for 5 minutes clearly knows nothing about our history. They were our allies in the last war and many settled here afterwards, because we made it possible for them to come. Poles have lived in this country in large numbers for the last 60 or 70 years.

We should never forget what they did for us in the Battle of Britain and in many other theatres of war.
Click to expand...
Yeah I wanted to say the same thing. Poland crackes much of the enigma code long before we had even thought of using Mathematics to break it.

They then shared that technology with us, which led to us fully breaking it and the Lorenz cipher.

If breaking the enigma code led us to win the 2nd world war, Poland sharing that info led us to win it.

Poland have always been our friends and allies.p perhaps we owe them a small debt
 
Chorley1974 said:
You didn't answer my question on your issues in terms of the vitriol and abuse, can you not just respect people's opinions? in the meantime I will consider whether to bother to pull together a list of brexit business supporters/economists, there are a bunch of them who supported brexit, JCB boss etc etc.

I voted remain, but can't help believe that your attitude drove others to vote out.
Click to expand...

Point to the abuse? I'll gladly apologise. With regards to the vitriol, please don't try to go there. I can find you over a hundred examples of it going the other way. This is destroying peoples futures, they have every right to be harsh and criticise ignorance. Legitimate argument is one thing, ignorance, racism, xenophobia or flat out disregard for the truth is another. You have to respect a persons right to an opinion, you don't have to respect their actual opinion - especially if it's based in hate.

I would also like to think that nobody was driven to vote leave based on someone's attitude, that would be the least intelligent way to decide the future of your children that I've ever heard.
 
Jippy said:
There are lot of high profile business folk on both sides of the debate tbf.
There's a bunch named here, but the likes of James Dyson, John Caudwell and John Mills all pro-leave.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referen...ers-backing-brexit-want-uk-vote-leave-1545548
Click to expand...

Indeed there are, but relatively speaking it's extremely one sided. I'd be interested to see any of them actually try to rebut some of the arguments made by professionals rather than pointing to something completely different.
 
Jippy said:
That does overlook the fact we have a minimum wage, soon to become a living wage, and a welfare system. It's no secret that so many central and Eastern Europeans have been able to get menial jobs over here because a strata of our society refuse to do them, believing it is beneath them.
Click to expand...
the minimum wage isn't really much use on a zero hour contract when you never know how many hours if any you will get the following week.

and it isn't as straight forward as that, firstly their are loads of english people doing these menial jobs, i've done all kinds of crap jobs myself in my time which would be described as menial, and i'm english and didn't refuse to do it, but living like that, on zero hour contracts is really fecking hard never knowing if your gonna get enough hours the following week, and it not like you get much benefits in that situation or support, the benefit system just isn't geared up to cope with some ones hours changing every week, and one point i tried having 3 jobs like that, but then you just get companies getting annoyed that your not their for them when they want you and stop giving you hours, so it basically ends up you been able to pay rent one months the next month your panic and scared shitless, i'm lucky to have got out of that situation, but i know people who have lived like that for a decade, and are just fed up and angry. So yeah a lot of British people refuse to do it. do you seriously blame them?

many immigrants deal with it by accepting lower living conditions, i dated a Slovakian girl while living in Brighton in the late 00's and she lived in a 2 bed flat with 5 other people, and to her that was normal as so many of her mates had similar living arrangements. because with that kind of living arrangements you can survive on the abusive contracts companies have been offering more and more in recent years, despite the so called economic recovery.

so with so much cheap labour coming into the country, businesses don't have to offer competitive contracts, because they know they basically have an endless supply of workers who will take the job.

so it isnt as straight forward as it's all fine we have minimum wage, or British people wont do certain jobs or we have a benefit system, its far more complicated and harder to solve then that.
 
rpitroda said:
I'm going to speak what's on my heart and mind right now - it is probably overly dramatic and I'm sure plenty will raise eyebrows but I can't help how I feel.

Firstly, I'm British. I was born here. But my ethnic origin is Indian. Maybe I'm in a very small minority, but for the first time in my life I genuinely feel hesitant, for use of a better word, that I'm not welcome here. I know that's a massive overreaction and probably not true, but believe me I've thought on it and tried to shake it, but for the first time I have a voice in the back of my head that is telling me, making me doubt for the first time, whether i belong here. I look at people when I board the train and wonder what they're thinking. I walk the streets and I wonder if anyone's thought in their mind, "I wish he wasn't here".

Secondly, I'm openly a labour voter normally. I very much believe that if I'm wealthy, and I earn well, then a fair share of my wealth should be taken to help the poorer less well off. That's not to say I enjoy paying taxes, who does? But I'm comfortable and morally happy in feeling I should do my bit. That's changed. Some voters voted leave because they have read the facts and made up their mind. No problem. Some voted leave because of personal experience which has affected them and their view. No problem. But some voted as a feck you to establishment. Some voted because they look at the glamour and wealth of London (where I work) with disgust and jealousy. Some voted because they just wanted to kick those who work hard and pay their fair share in the teeth. This has changed my view. Londons wealth is what drives everyone else's economies. I'm the first to know and admit that the wealth London generates isn't distributed fairly, let's say, over the country. And I know that many decisions are with London in mind at the neglect of the rest of the country. Yet, these voters seem to forget that if they hit London, they only will get hit about 50x as hard. Yet just to put their ego on top, they wanted it. They did it. And now, I think, feck this shit tax that I pay to help some of these people, however small a portion gets to them. If they want to give us the finger, perhaps it's time I did too.

Finally, putting aside the economics of it all, it deeply upsets me that the people whom I live near, share the same town, county, and country with, have become so insular. So inward looking. So nationalist. I believe in embracing cultures, embracing people, embracing the world. Working together trying to make it a better place in all that. It feels like we have turned our back on these principles that I believe in so deeply.

Bottom line, there is a huge divide. And frankly when I think of those people from Sunderland who are poor and don't get much support or jobs, I think feck you too. Go and rot.

I hate I feel that way. But sadly, I do. I think that if Boris does come in, and god knows I would hate it, I think of these people who voted in this way with a smirk knowing that they will get absolutely screwed over by this.

I genuinely think the divide between London especially and some other parts of the U.K. is simply too big to fix. The gulf in fundamental beliefs is so significant that it's almost like it's not the same country. In fact I would go as far as saying it's more different than some whole countries are from one another.

It's significant. And something has to happen. It might not be now, but one day it'll be enough is enough and we will have a real issue.

One day on, I thought I'd have calmed a bit. But I haven't. I still feel insecure in my "wantedness" here. I still think so badly of those wankers who voted leave for the wrong reasons. And I can't stand the idea of someone voting leave.

We could be in a world where Trump and BoJo are leaders of two great countries. What a shame that'd be, and how scary, too.
Click to expand...
Good post, mate. I feel the same way and experiencing similar. I know others are too and its only been three days.
 
rpitroda said:
I'm going to speak what's on my heart and mind right now - it is probably overly dramatic and I'm sure plenty will raise eyebrows but I can't help how I feel.

Firstly, I'm British. I was born here. But my ethnic origin is Indian. Maybe I'm in a very small minority, but for the first time in my life I genuinely feel hesitant, for use of a better word, that I'm not welcome here. I know that's a massive overreaction and probably not true, but believe me I've thought on it and tried to shake it, but for the first time I have a voice in the back of my head that is telling me, making me doubt for the first time, whether i belong here. I look at people when I board the train and wonder what they're thinking. I walk the streets and I wonder if anyone's thought in their mind, "I wish he wasn't here".

Secondly, I'm openly a labour voter normally. I very much believe that if I'm wealthy, and I earn well, then a fair share of my wealth should be taken to help the poorer less well off. That's not to say I enjoy paying taxes, who does? But I'm comfortable and morally happy in feeling I should do my bit. That's changed. Some voters voted leave because they have read the facts and made up their mind. No problem. Some voted leave because of personal experience which has affected them and their view. No problem. But some voted as a feck you to establishment. Some voted because they look at the glamour and wealth of London (where I work) with disgust and jealousy. Some voted because they just wanted to kick those who work hard and pay their fair share in the teeth. This has changed my view. Londons wealth is what drives everyone else's economies. I'm the first to know and admit that the wealth London generates isn't distributed fairly, let's say, over the country. And I know that many decisions are with London in mind at the neglect of the rest of the country. Yet, these voters seem to forget that if they hit London, they only will get hit about 50x as hard. Yet just to put their ego on top, they wanted it. They did it. And now, I think, feck this shit tax that I pay to help some of these people, however small a portion gets to them. If they want to give us the finger, perhaps it's time I did too.

Finally, putting aside the economics of it all, it deeply upsets me that the people whom I live near, share the same town, county, and country with, have become so insular. So inward looking. So nationalist. I believe in embracing cultures, embracing people, embracing the world. Working together trying to make it a better place in all that. It feels like we have turned our back on these principles that I believe in so deeply.

Bottom line, there is a huge divide. And frankly when I think of those people from Sunderland who are poor and don't get much support or jobs, I think feck you too. Go and rot.

I hate I feel that way. But sadly, I do. I think that if Boris does come in, and god knows I would hate it, I think of these people who voted in this way with a smirk knowing that they will get absolutely screwed over by this.

I genuinely think the divide between London especially and some other parts of the U.K. is simply too big to fix. The gulf in fundamental beliefs is so significant that it's almost like it's not the same country. In fact I would go as far as saying it's more different than some whole countries are from one another.

It's significant. And something has to happen. It might not be now, but one day it'll be enough is enough and we will have a real issue.

One day on, I thought I'd have calmed a bit. But I haven't. I still feel insecure in my "wantedness" here. I still think so badly of those wankers who voted leave for the wrong reasons. And I can't stand the idea of someone voting leave.

We could be in a world where Trump and BoJo are leaders of two great countries. What a shame that'd be, and how scary, too.
Click to expand...

https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10101369198638985&type=3

No, I think you're completely fair enough and justified in thinking that actually.

I don't feel amazingly happy either. I feel really quite bitter that the baby boomers, having taken everything and pulled the ladder up after them, are now messing with the futures of our children.

I will be looking to move my family out of England after this I think. Not be used I think armageddon is coming but because I don't like what this vote says about the country and it's people.
 
So people that voted leave are now wankers aswell as retards now, excellent.

People that voted tory are what?
 
Zarlak said:
Indeed there are, but relatively speaking it's extremely one sided. I'd be interested to see any of them actually try to rebut some of the arguments made by professionals rather than pointing to something completely different.
Click to expand...
I think Dyson's big beef was clampdown on non-EU migration making it hard for him to hire foreign talent iirc.

Stanley Road said:
So people that voted leave are now wankers aswell as retards now, excellent.
Click to expand...
Surprised if we haven't had 'traitors' yet...
 
Jippy said:
That does overlook the fact we have a minimum wage, soon to become a living wage, and a welfare system. It's no secret that so many central and Eastern Europeans have been able to get menial jobs over here because a strata of our society refuse to do them, believing it is beneath them.
Click to expand...
It'll be a living wage in name only. It was going to inflate close to £10 by 2020 anyway, and the cost of living will go up alongside it.
 
Silva said:
It'll be a living wage in name only. It was going to inflate close to £10 by 2020 anyway, and the cost of living will go up alongside it.
Click to expand...
Inflation is pretty much zero, so wouldn't worry too much about cost of living...barring a Brexit-caused sterling weakness inflation hike.
 
paulscholes18 said:
Surly you need to give it a few years not days (hours in some cases) before regretting your vote. I just watched this and felt even more sure I made the correct decision.
Click to expand...


Depends - people vote for all sorts of reasons. Some voted because they genuinely thought Remain would win, others bought into the £350m lie, some thought it would bring down immigration (which Hannan himself has said was unlikely - which has made me respect him more, unsurprising though he didn't mention it during the campaign), others may have thought there would be no negative short term impacts and thought Leave was right when they said Remain were scare-mongering. All valid reasons to change your mind.

The argument isn't whether or not Leaving the EU has worked or not - that will take a few years. But having buyer's remorse takes a few minutes.
 
rpitroda said:
I genuinely think the divide between London especially and some other parts of the U.K. is simply too big to fix. The gulf in fundamental beliefs is so significant that it's almost like it's not the same country. In fact I would go as far as saying it's more different than some whole countries are from one another.

It's significant. And something has to happen. It might not be now, but one day it'll be enough is enough and we will have a real issue.

One day on, I thought I'd have calmed a bit. But I haven't. I still feel insecure in my "wantedness" here. I still think so badly of those wankers who voted leave for the wrong reasons. And I can't stand the idea of someone voting leave.

We could be in a world where Trump and BoJo are leaders of two great countries. What a shame that'd be, and how scary, too.
Click to expand...

London voting was 3.7 million

2.2 million Remain
1.5 million Leave

I don't think London gets off scott free here or should be painted as some shining star. Have a look at the whole of south east and south west as well.

Country really is split down the middle and sadly I think this EU referendum has given the racist and xenophobic people a platform to come out of the woodwork and gain confidence. It's going to take a lot of repairing.

Not saying Leave voters are all like this. I think most major EU countries have a 30% out mentality. This campaign from Gove and Johnson has falsely sold a pipe dream to those caught in the middle who have genuine grievances and has been hijacked.
 
redshaw said:
London voting was 3.7 million

2.2 million Remain
1.5 million Leave

I don't think London gets off scott free here or should be painted as some shining star. Have a look at the whole of south east and south west as well.

Country really is split down the middle and sadly I think this EU referendum has given the racist and xenophobic people a platform to come out of the woodwork and gain confidence. It's going to take a lot of repairing.

Not saying Leave voters are all like this. I think most major EU countries have a 30% out mentality. This campaign from Gove and Johnson has falsely sold a pipe dream to those caught in the middle who have genuine grievances and has been hijacked.
Click to expand...

Not painting London as a "Saint" area, but your stats are heavily misleading. If we are leaving the EU on a 52:48 premise than a 59:41 difference in the opposite direction is an 11 point swing, which in voting terms is huge.

Not to mention the fact that your 3.7 likely includes the east of London which is significantly pro-leave.

Point is, forgetting the statistics and numbers, in London it's the leave voters in the closet because they know in general the voters back remain and the overall sentiment in the city is remain - i work there and know this. I haven't met a single leave voter although I know there are some I've spoken to most probably did vote leave. In many parts of the rest of the country, the feeling is the opposite. I don't know as I'm not there but based on what I've read and heard, it's the remainers who are in the closet.

That signifies a significant divide, not just a country split in half.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.