Moyes was like being tied to a chair and repeatedly shot at with a paintball gun, Lvg was like being strapped into a lunatic asylum bed, with shite smeared all over you.
Who was worse, Moyes or Van Gaal?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
He has never stayed at a club for more than 3 to 4 years. I really hope that this happens though.
Friend are you seriously suggesting people to watch Moyes season again?
We already gone through that pain, why should we do it again.
Lots of people has good memory of that season they don't need to see it again.
When time pass fans hype player rather than call them shit, take a look at old Nani, Cleverly discussion. And this is not apply only RedCafe in any club forum you visit this is same trend.
So by time pass people will hype him rather than telling how shit it was.
Norwich game was as shit as Fulham, LVG was schooled at that day, the crossing state may be right but it never look like we are making that much cross. While in Fulham game it was fill like we have cross much more then 82, it like endless drill we are doing that day.
LVG's first season was not bad and I felt positive after that season. And i think so many people fill same way.
It just didn't happen in his second season, and everything fell apart in December.
If I want to remember what is positive in Moyes season then I will say Sacking of Moyes was most positive thing we done in that season.
The Fulham game is overstated as being a terrible performance. We had 31 shots that game, something LVG's team barely managed in a month. When you watch the crosses video Fulham have 9-11 men camped in the box for the whole game, the miracle was that they scored 2.
"sensible " says it all all versatile run of the mill squad players
We're Real Madrid , Barca , Bayern in for Rojo, Blind , Herrera , schniederlin ,schweinsteiger ,Darmian etc ?
No of course not .If they weren't good enough for them why on earth would they be good enough for us
Overstated, yes. But it was still quite a poor performance. Stek made so many incredible saves and the goal that Bent scored at the end was a very chalky fluker. We really should have seen that game out and nobody would have talked about it. At some points that season you could put a tinfoil hat on and ask yourself whether Carrick, Vida and De Gea were on the take to finish us out of the top four. We conceded some really chuffy goals. The couple at Hull is a very good example of that.
Personally, completely disagree and I've already demonstrated that a couple of times already. Still, I stick to my point that if fans haven't gone back to analyse it then they can't be claiming the high ground while arguing with their recollection of events. More often than not it will be a psychological re-circulation of how they perceived the season, reinforced by their comments that are validated on here by other such fans.
But like I said, everybody can have their own opinion.
There were some really low points of LVG's reign, the run of games during Christmas, failing to get out of the UCL group stages, his awful game management and philosophy, but for me nothing will ever compare to the pure frustration and cowardice of Moyes time at the club.
To this day I still can't believe he was ever given the job. Performances like today vindicate my impression of him and his lack of winning mentality - at the end of the day he's so scared of losing...
To this day I still can't believe he was ever given the job. Performances like today vindicate my impression of him and his lack of winning mentality - at the end of the day he's so scared of losing...
Moyes was worse, but van Gaal is just about there himself.
Van Gaal had more time and had it his way. He had every chance to implement and make his plans succeed. Despite this, he had United playing tumescent football. He turned players into shadows for themselves and barely took the team forward despite tremendous outlay. He failed. It wouldn't be harsh to say he was abject at the helm.
Moyes was out of his depth and blundered at just about every step--especially in dismantling the staff Ferguson left him. Ultimately he was worse than van Gaal and would have taken the club lower if given a chance.
Van Gaal had more time and had it his way. He had every chance to implement and make his plans succeed. Despite this, he had United playing tumescent football. He turned players into shadows for themselves and barely took the team forward despite tremendous outlay. He failed. It wouldn't be harsh to say he was abject at the helm.
Moyes was out of his depth and blundered at just about every step--especially in dismantling the staff Ferguson left him. Ultimately he was worse than van Gaal and would have taken the club lower if given a chance.
Almost 100 people going for Van Gaal. How did that happen?
Van gaal was clearly worse for me all factors considered that he wasnt directly taking over from Saf like instituion where you arent sure how much to change or not with the setback that was always gonna come with it. Also that he got more time, and spent 250 million pounds or so to only leave us pretty where he had taken over with a absurd player turnover. His fecking football was deliberately more boring too as let philosophy plus he never even once accepted that he was failing till the end.
Moyes. LVG had his moments, both on the pitch and off. LVG had some notable wins against rivals which were very enjoyable. We never gave City and Liverpool thorough schoolings in the space of a couple weeks under Moyes. Also, last May was the first time I've seen United win the FA Cup so that had particular significant for me.
Moyes.
We were so shite under him it was as boring as during the LVG era.
We were truly a laughing stock under Moyes.
Like many have noted we won the double over Pool in consecutive seasons with LVG.
Juanfield
Of course there's the Powellgate and the numerous games with practically no shots on target.
We were so shite under him it was as boring as during the LVG era.
We were truly a laughing stock under Moyes.
Like many have noted we won the double over Pool in consecutive seasons with LVG.
Juanfield
Of course there's the Powellgate and the numerous games with practically no shots on target.
The only bad things that LVG did were that the football was boring and he failed to make needed signings and that we never bullied crap teams under him
The cult of Moyes is a strong, vocal and prominent one.Almost 100 people going for Van Gaal. How did that happen?
Almost 100 people going for Van Gaal. How did that happen?
Dory is their mother
Moyes was worse, without a doubt.
Van Gaal should have succeeded Fergie in hindsight. The club did not want Mourinho then in 2013. They should have gone for LvG, a proven trophy winner and given him three years.
Atleast we won the FA Cup with him and added Martial, Blind, Shaw, Schneidy and Schweiny. Under Moyes, we got Fellaini. For 27 million.
Van Gaal should have succeeded Fergie in hindsight. The club did not want Mourinho then in 2013. They should have gone for LvG, a proven trophy winner and given him three years.
Atleast we won the FA Cup with him and added Martial, Blind, Shaw, Schneidy and Schweiny. Under Moyes, we got Fellaini. For 27 million.
On general performance: Moyes was most definitely worse than McGuinness and O'Farrell, and must rank as the crappiest manager ever after Busby. LVG was worse than Sexton and Atkinson, his only saving grace was the FA Cup.
On squads - Moyes was the bigger disaster. It took a special kind of incompetence to break up a championship side, and kill the morale. The mistake was to bring in the fat head afterwards.
On squads - Moyes was the bigger disaster. It took a special kind of incompetence to break up a championship side, and kill the morale. The mistake was to bring in the fat head afterwards.
Might be a good idea in theory, but it was never going to happen.
With or without hindsight, this is unrealistic. LVG's brand of football for most part conflict with SAF's football. Some people can't distinguish about quality vs style conflict hence this thread. Moyes' football is more easy on the eye and looks similar to SAF's football, but the quality is no where good enough. LVG tried to instill a different philosophy so it understandably takes time to master, so it's frustratingly boring on the eye. At the level of that LVG's we are not top club like under SAF, but we don't casually point feed to L'pool and City like under Moyes.
That proves Moyes has 100 accounts on the caf.Almost 100 people going for Van Gaal. How did that happen?
Moyes by a large margin.
The football we played under both was equally horrible. Under Moyes it was hoof the ball to nowhere or expect Januzaj to do some magic, under LVG it was do nothing but backpassing and expect Martial to do some magic.
On transfer market LvG was better despite that he was bad. We signed Martial which I think will prove to be a terrific signing in the end, we signed a fantastic utility player in Blind, we signed a decent player in Herrera. At the other end of the specter we signed and then got rid of Di Maria and Falcao, while Depay and Rojo have been proven worse than useless. Moyes on the other side dithered with the double bid of Fellaini and Baines to only get Fellaini in the end by paying more than what was his clause (thanks God we didn't sign Baines), didn't want Alcantara, didn't want Herrera, vetoed a ready made transfer on Garay, probably did the same with Strootman, on his infinite wisdom decided that Fabregas is doable the day after Barca sold Alcantara and made a record bid on Bale. LvG also improved considerably players like Smalling and Fellaini, while also promoted a lot of players including Rashford which is our academy players I have been more excited about in a very long time.
The results, LVG was quite better. A fourth and fifth position beats a seventh position, while we also won a 'major' trophy. Moyes however did better in UCL.
I also need to mention the results against the top teams (lets say teams that finished above us during Moyes season). Under Moyes we lost twice against City, twice against Liverpool, twice against Everton, got one point against Chelsea and Spurs and four points against Arsenal. A total of 6 points out of a possible 36. Against our two biggest rivals we lost all four games with a goal difference of -10. On the other side, with Van Gaal on the first season on the same games we got 21 out of 36 points, while on the second season we got 24 out of 36 points. Bar the Arsenal and Spurs games in the second season, we had some degree of control in all these games and we were the better team almost in all of these games.
Both acted like morons with their infinite list of excuses, although Moyes was a level above with him complaining even about the match generator, the referees, Fergie and players. That would have made a Liverpool manager proud. LVG complained more into some weird metaphysical level when no-one got what he wanted and people got divided into LvG is a genius and LvG is a moron. LvG was way more respectable though during the time here, and he stopped talking when he left, while Moyes still continues complaining about the injustice that we did to him.
In the end, feck both of them.
The football we played under both was equally horrible. Under Moyes it was hoof the ball to nowhere or expect Januzaj to do some magic, under LVG it was do nothing but backpassing and expect Martial to do some magic.
On transfer market LvG was better despite that he was bad. We signed Martial which I think will prove to be a terrific signing in the end, we signed a fantastic utility player in Blind, we signed a decent player in Herrera. At the other end of the specter we signed and then got rid of Di Maria and Falcao, while Depay and Rojo have been proven worse than useless. Moyes on the other side dithered with the double bid of Fellaini and Baines to only get Fellaini in the end by paying more than what was his clause (thanks God we didn't sign Baines), didn't want Alcantara, didn't want Herrera, vetoed a ready made transfer on Garay, probably did the same with Strootman, on his infinite wisdom decided that Fabregas is doable the day after Barca sold Alcantara and made a record bid on Bale. LvG also improved considerably players like Smalling and Fellaini, while also promoted a lot of players including Rashford which is our academy players I have been more excited about in a very long time.
The results, LVG was quite better. A fourth and fifth position beats a seventh position, while we also won a 'major' trophy. Moyes however did better in UCL.
I also need to mention the results against the top teams (lets say teams that finished above us during Moyes season). Under Moyes we lost twice against City, twice against Liverpool, twice against Everton, got one point against Chelsea and Spurs and four points against Arsenal. A total of 6 points out of a possible 36. Against our two biggest rivals we lost all four games with a goal difference of -10. On the other side, with Van Gaal on the first season on the same games we got 21 out of 36 points, while on the second season we got 24 out of 36 points. Bar the Arsenal and Spurs games in the second season, we had some degree of control in all these games and we were the better team almost in all of these games.
Both acted like morons with their infinite list of excuses, although Moyes was a level above with him complaining even about the match generator, the referees, Fergie and players. That would have made a Liverpool manager proud. LVG complained more into some weird metaphysical level when no-one got what he wanted and people got divided into LvG is a genius and LvG is a moron. LvG was way more respectable though during the time here, and he stopped talking when he left, while Moyes still continues complaining about the injustice that we did to him.
In the end, feck both of them.
On United in press, I believe they mentioned van Gaal can't speak about United for a year after his departure, which explains why he's kept his mouth shut since his sacking.
Lvg will be remembered for bringing through Rashford , Tim Fosu-Mensah and buying Martial, insomnia curing football and
'that dive"
. The Chosen one will be remembered for Adnan in a good way but seeing fellaini will remind us that we could have gotten Strootman or Thiago that summer. Rooney haters will blame him for Rooney still being here, we are also still wondering why we got Mata when we mostly were playing 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 and could not accommodate the number 10 we had at the time (Kagawa). Though I am happy Juan is here now, that goal against Liverpool is just ......so for me Moyes was worse.
I know with LVG everyone likes to talk about money spent lets not forget that we lost our spine that year and also needed to get rid of deadwood. Losing leaders like Evra, Rio and Nemanja at once was a disaster. So not you had LVG trying to fix the defence whilst also closing the gaping holes in midfield at once which was tough. If you look at Moyes season he would have been fine had he added two good midfielders to that team
'that dive"
. The Chosen one will be remembered for Adnan in a good way but seeing fellaini will remind us that we could have gotten Strootman or Thiago that summer. Rooney haters will blame him for Rooney still being here, we are also still wondering why we got Mata when we mostly were playing 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 and could not accommodate the number 10 we had at the time (Kagawa). Though I am happy Juan is here now, that goal against Liverpool is just ......so for me Moyes was worse.I know with LVG everyone likes to talk about money spent lets not forget that we lost our spine that year and also needed to get rid of deadwood. Losing leaders like Evra, Rio and Nemanja at once was a disaster. So not you had LVG trying to fix the defence whilst also closing the gaping holes in midfield at once which was tough. If you look at Moyes season he would have been fine had he added two good midfielders to that team
Who are "they"? The usual bs reporters?
Whats worse, diarrhea or the shits ...same diff
For me, it's about damage limitations.
Moyes came, failed and got sacked quite fast without wasting tons of money and time.
LvG despite his minor success spent a lot, got more time, and pushed me and others into a such a deep lack of faith that we couldn't even laugh at the failures like we did under Moyes.
LvG deserves credit for a FA cup win, but that for me doesn't make up for all the games I fell asleep while watching his brand of Football.
Moyes came, failed and got sacked quite fast without wasting tons of money and time.
LvG despite his minor success spent a lot, got more time, and pushed me and others into a such a deep lack of faith that we couldn't even laugh at the failures like we did under Moyes.
LvG deserves credit for a FA cup win, but that for me doesn't make up for all the games I fell asleep while watching his brand of Football.
Moyes looked clueless, bought Fellaini and we finished 7th.
LVG had a definite plan (albeit an extremely boring and shit one), he cut out the press leaks and brought silverware.
There's no competition in terms of who was worse (although you could perhaps talk about comparatively worse based on experience and trophy haul) but thankfully both are gone.
LVG had a definite plan (albeit an extremely boring and shit one), he cut out the press leaks and brought silverware.
There's no competition in terms of who was worse (although you could perhaps talk about comparatively worse based on experience and trophy haul) but thankfully both are gone.
Fascinating, great business if true. Totally insufferable shite is the only thing that ever comes out of that blokes mouth.
Seems as if the same thing didn't happen with Moyes given the stuff that's left his gob over the last couple of years. Fwiw, i'm not certain van Gaal will be like Moyes if asked about his United sacking. Top coaches generally get the sack from the top clubs at some point in their career, so being sacked is nothing new to van Gaal.
Oh I have no doubt that he'll be back after the embargo (if that is the case, unusually quiet). He seems the type of guy who has to be dragged kicking and screaming by the bouncers out of a hotel while he's trashing as much of it as he can and then dusts himself off outside saying "what did I do, I didn't even do anything wrong" and trys to get back in.
I find it rather hard to say. I think the sad looking Moyes in United's dug out was a lower point for United image wise. David Moyes is not, was not and never will be a big club trainer. The excessive celebrating against Fulham is a good example of that. A point can also be made that he inherited a title winning squad even though I'd argue that some of that squad was on their last legs and it was mostly RVP putting the balls in even from the dressing room.
LVG however, was a proven manager brought in with very high expectations. Someone with a great tally, a lot of big clubs on his resume and successes to match. Just came back from finishing 3rd in the world cup with a very average Dutch squad (I won't argue here that Holland played terribly for all matched except the second half against Spain and Robben did most of the work). He invested millions in to the squad and after a great preseason everyone thought United were back and Moyes was left behind as a bad dream. Granted, the first season he did a little better than Moyes. He then invested a lot of money again and proceded to do worse than Moyes results wise in his second season.
Make of that what you will, but if you put Moyes' resume and face on the LVG era and vice versa, everyone would still say Moyes was worse.
LVG however, was a proven manager brought in with very high expectations. Someone with a great tally, a lot of big clubs on his resume and successes to match. Just came back from finishing 3rd in the world cup with a very average Dutch squad (I won't argue here that Holland played terribly for all matched except the second half against Spain and Robben did most of the work). He invested millions in to the squad and after a great preseason everyone thought United were back and Moyes was left behind as a bad dream. Granted, the first season he did a little better than Moyes. He then invested a lot of money again and proceded to do worse than Moyes results wise in his second season.
Make of that what you will, but if you put Moyes' resume and face on the LVG era and vice versa, everyone would still say Moyes was worse.
There is a significant difference between the 4th and the 7th place. And the only result that matter - the place in the table, was still higher even in the second Van Gaal's season - 5th vs 7th, plus the FA Cup.
Moyes did a lot, a lot worse than Van Gaal if we compare the results. Despite their reputation
Not sure if it was worth starting a new thread on this but how do you feel now knowing Van Gaal was selecting Rooney irregardless of performances even when he could have dropped him?
Could frame that question about Moyes as well. He had a boner for Rooney, almost as big as the English media. How often did Moyes drop him due to form?
I think Rooney was still decent back then and the team was struggling, Van Persie wasn't the same as the season before either. Van Gaal had two seasons to judge him on, even when we played better without Rooney he still ended up starting. Furthermore, he would sacrifice the balance of the team to find a place for Rooney whether that be as a striker, no.10 or central midfielder.
Moyes was worse, LVG won the Cup & put Rashford in the team
Moyes was far worse, OP has some type of unhealthy obesession with Moyes and Rooney.
what's there to feel? It comfortably cost him his job.
Also signed Martial, Herrera, Blind and Luke Shaw.
Gave Fosu Mensah and Borthwick Jackson their debuts.
Imo also gave Ashley Young and Valencia new leases of life.
No debate.