We made them look like little school girls in the first 30 minutes, but just seemed to hold back and not create anything.
Jose : "They are not the last wonder of the world like you say they are"
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's called a negative approach.
You go and enjoy the attacking shite show put out there yesterday, I will continue to call shite when I see shite.Bothered to attack?
They spent the entire match trying to attack, we just beat them to every second ball, nullified their press game, beat them aerially & stayed compact as a defensive unit. Mane, Clyne & Sturridge particularly were quiet.
As a result they managed to squeeze a handful of opportunities, one of which was a long range effort.
It's not as if we were lucky not to concede and Liverpool had us on the ropes, their whole team, manager & fans was frustrated because we contained them so well and didn't allow them to play their brand of football.
Still doesn't explain why it's a bad thing that defenders were able to defend, and likewise goalkeepers kept a clean sheet. Isn't that the aim?
You can't expect to have a game where the opposition won't create chances. If we were to play Northampton on the weekend, they would still create at least one chance against us.
You don't have to enjoy it, but it was necessary. It's better than a loss, and the likelihood of us winning comfortably were heavily stacked against us.
SAF used to play for a smash & grab at Anfield, and very rarely opened us up to have them attack us on all fronts.
If you were expecting us to suddenly turn into a free flowing goal scoring unit after an international break, i'm not sure your expectations sit within the realms of reality.
The defending by Chelsea over both legs was pretty average, in my opinion. Barcelona had 25 shots(15 on target) hit the bar and post and had other chances in the first leg alone. How that can be classed as great defending astounds me!
Liverpool were limited to little chances, but I honestly don't believe that was down to the tactics, Liverpool were horrendous on the night and made numerous poor decisions and simple passes went wayward. Was a good defensive display, but not great like United against Barca in 08.
What I'm saying is last night's game isn't evident or worth calling him a tactical genius for it. His tactics against Liverpool when Chelsea won 2-0, were out of this world. His tactics last night and for Chelsea in the 0-0 against Moyes(which was similar to last night and United fans slated him for it that night) are something I don't agree with or find something to be wax lyrical over. Each to their own though.
Yup.
They weren't. The talking heads at HT were even commenting on being surprised that United was on the front foot for most of the first half. That's why I found the whole 'parking the bus' accusations amusing. Spoke with an old friend of mine this morning who happens to be a Liverpool fan. He said "yes, it's always parking the bus when the other team does it." How true.
Off course they weren't but that poster dislikes Mourinho so much that it doesn't matter.
But fergie had to rely on vidic and rio being immense, pep had to rely on messi being brilliant
A goalkeeper making saves is their job? They had one clear chance, that is bloody good.
We had the best chance of the game, poor post, too bitter
I'd have taken a point against Liverpool before kicking a ball.
My issue with the performance was that we had a game plan, one that we executed very well, but we literally offered nothing really. Mourinho mocks Liverpool after the match, yet it was us who came to the match with zero intent on winning.
With the amount of money we've spent, and with the players we have, we shouldn't need to be worried about other teams, but we do, and we are and that's because we seem to set up not to lose rather than to win, very similar to the mindset of LVG.
Now again, I am happy with a point, but what bothers me is whats beyond this. Chelsea next, then City in the league cup. We have Arsenal, Everton and Tottenham in the fixtures round the corner, we can't rely on these tactics.
We have the players to play a much more offensive game.
Teams should be setting up to stop us rather than the other way around
My issue with the performance was that we had a game plan, one that we executed very well, but we literally offered nothing really. Mourinho mocks Liverpool after the match, yet it was us who came to the match with zero intent on winning.
With the amount of money we've spent, and with the players we have, we shouldn't need to be worried about other teams, but we do, and we are and that's because we seem to set up not to lose rather than to win, very similar to the mindset of LVG.
Now again, I am happy with a point, but what bothers me is whats beyond this. Chelsea next, then City in the league cup. We have Arsenal, Everton and Tottenham in the fixtures round the corner, we can't rely on these tactics.
We have the players to play a much more offensive game.
Teams should be setting up to stop us rather than the other way around
Agreed, getting real tiresome.
Guess we have to get used to it all the while we have Lucifer Mourinho and the scouse and citeh have Saint Klopp and his holiness Guardiola.
He hasnt won a major trophy in 4 1/2 years.
Lost five finals in a row.
If Jose went on a run like that the hysteria would be through the roof. The talk would be that he is turning into Wenger. Klopp gets such an easy time from the press and his weird cult of fans.
Me too attacking wise.
Last wonder of the world. 
Nothing summed this up more than the way Sky Sports spent all night talking about Adam fecking Lallana as if he were Lionel Messi. It was beyond ridiculous. He apparently transformed the game when he came on too.
Klopp has had a year to build his team. Yet they are hardly as great as typically your scouser makes Liverpool out to be..or the media. I saw the Swansea match. They won because of a comical defensive error which led to the penalty. They still should have only got a point when right at the end the Swansea defender missed a gilt endged chance.
Mourinho still has not found his ideal team yet. The tactic to go for a point was fair, though I was disapointed with it. We are only 5 off the top. That is nothing.
Mourinho still has not found his ideal team yet. The tactic to go for a point was fair, though I was disapointed with it. We are only 5 off the top. That is nothing.
He's right, and many on here had a shameful display in the matchday thread in the build up to the game. I told you guys to fecking chill, got laughed at by a Liverpool fan for suggesting they're not all that, and only a handful of people seemed to share my view. Mou's got this.
I said it before, this would have been a fantastic point had we not already dropped 8 points prior to this match. I think we've been let down by our big players underperforming in the big games against City and Liverpool.
It's because to a lot of neutrals he comes across as quite likeable, and no matter which way you look at it he has improved us. He definitely needs to win something or get us Champions League football this season but since he's come in we've created more chances and scored more goals than anyone. He's also improved some of our players a great deal compared to the players they were under Rodgers. Like everyone we've got our flaws but we're sitting two points off top and I'd say we look like a top four side at the minute, so it's hard to really be that critical of him.
When you play Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and United (three of those away) picking up 8 points in the process scoring goals and playing decent football (mostly) then the media probably will get carried away, especially when it's at a club that hasn't been successful in so long.
Mourinho's problem is himself. If his team doesn't win he deflects or blames someone other than himself. I rate him as one of the best managers in world football but the siege mentality he adopts when things aren't going well is ridiculous. He probably still blames his players for what happened last season at Chelsea even though a lot of that started with him.
I don't doubt his ability to win trophies at United but until it clicks for him again he'll have to accept that he won't be getting all the positive media attention he seems to be after.
fair enough post. I did say in the summer that Klopp did very well getting the team to two finals.
But you are wrong about Mourinho being at fault for last season. His players sabotaged him. His record speaks for itself.
I think some people reading Mou's comments as letting his emotions get to him, or Liverpool getting under his skin.
On the contrary, he deliberately set us up to play with discipline. He knew we were still trying to find our footing, whereas Liverpool was the "in-form" team. By not being baited to go guns-blazing just to prove a point, we got a result we could be satisfied with. Mou had every right to sneak in a snide remark, and I'm not sure why some Liverpool fans are gloating over dropped points.
Is Liverpool the better team at this point in time? Probably. Spending a lot in pre-season doesn't guarantee we'd be the better team from the off. But we're gradually figuring out our players and our team, and we'll get better .... much better.
On the contrary, he deliberately set us up to play with discipline. He knew we were still trying to find our footing, whereas Liverpool was the "in-form" team. By not being baited to go guns-blazing just to prove a point, we got a result we could be satisfied with. Mou had every right to sneak in a snide remark, and I'm not sure why some Liverpool fans are gloating over dropped points.
Is Liverpool the better team at this point in time? Probably. Spending a lot in pre-season doesn't guarantee we'd be the better team from the off. But we're gradually figuring out our players and our team, and we'll get better .... much better.
Scousers will be scousers.
Jose is a Legend already for Liverpools's 'slippy' match.
Victims.
Jose is a Legend already for Liverpools's 'slippy' match.
Victims.
when you played with a back six?
So you guys are using image without context to prove something that didn't happen.
If that was parking the bus the other night then every away team is guilty of it. That's just standard for a Jose team without the ball.
Because we defended in numbers doesn't mean we were negative. Bar the last 10 minutes, I felt there was a genuine effort on our part to win the game, and if our front 4 wasn't so poor going forward we might well have.
We'll have to see how you approach the game at Old Trafford.
Because we defended in numbers doesn't mean we were negative. Bar the last 10 minutes, I felt there was a genuine effort on our part to win the game, and if our front 4 wasn't so poor going forward we might well have.
We'll have to see how you approach the game at Old Trafford.
Jose even confirmed this in the post-presser. He wanted to play Rashford as the second striker but was forced to take him off. Had Martial been available he would have put him on instead, now without Rashford and Martial it did not make much sense to try an attacking approach in the final minutes.
Well.. I think it is a strange comment from Mourinho, as he set his team up, like we were the last wonder of the world.. Of course we're not that. We have shown pretty good form until now, but the flaws are there to see. We have a new young keeper and a shaky defence, especially at setpieces. Karius barely touched the ball, and you had one corner.. You had Fellaini and Ibrahmovich in the ffs.. Why didn't he try to exploit that a bit more?! Some say Ferguson would have done the same. I don't agree. He would have put more effort in to nick a goal.
I don't blame Mourinho for being cautios though. We were too. He played it perfect and got what he came for. We were not able to play our game, and couldn't find a way through. Thats our own fault.
I don't blame Mourinho for being cautios though. We were too. He played it perfect and got what he came for. We were not able to play our game, and couldn't find a way through. Thats our own fault.
Good point. Mourinho moans about how the media hypes us as 'the last wonder of the world' - yet was seemingly taken in enough by that hype to set up a team full of high-quality, transfer-fee busting players as if he were facing this last wonder.
I actually take it as a compliment that the once mighty Man United are now content, under Mourinho, to adopt a West Brom-like mentality and brag about taking a point away.
when you played with a back six?
You do realise you could probably get a lot of similar images the other way round too?
You do have a point but you try your utmost best to lose it with the tone you're using. Liverpool are in great form atm, they've played some very tough games and they've done pretty good. Your points tally would have been perfect, if it wasn't for that defeat at Burnley, and after playing Spurs-Arsenal-Chelsea away you were second in the shots p/g behind only City and you topped the shots from inside the box stats. Klopps's doing a fine job but he's also blessed with having some of his players, like Lallana, Henderson and Clyne, punching way above their weight at the start of the season.
You also have to take into consideration that United had much more to lose at Anfield last Monday. Already behind in the PL and with games away at Anfield and at the Bridge and with yet another Manchester derby looming on the horizon. We are still a work in progress, we are not in form and heavy defeats in those three games would severely damage the players' psychology and put Jose under enormous pressure. Two different worlds right now, don't you think?
Besides that, you are really making a big fuss over nothing. The "once mighty" United made a single tactical change which differentiated from our main plan and it was Fellaini instead of an attacking midfielder/second striker or play maker. It was made in order to prevent Liverpool from finding the extra man in between the lines with Firmino's movement, allow Herrera to stay close to Coutinho and prevent Mane from cutting inside.
But guess what, Klopp did a similar thing. He anticipated Pogba in a more advanced role with two holding players behind him and replaced one of his most in form players (and one of his most dangerous in the box) in the starting lineup, Lallana, with Can in order to allow Pogba very little space to run with the ball through the lines.
It's neither a mentality thing nor a WBA attitude, it's just that you are better going forward than us atm. Much better... thus nullifying our best creative options, Zlatan and Pogba in this game, leaves us with far less options and makes us look much worse on the pitch. All these things explain why we are not happy but content with a point at Anfield under these particular circumstances. After all, the full quote was: "they are not the last wonder of the world but they are a very good team".
when you played with a back six?
Look at the heat map on this link for context of the whole game. It shows that you were deeper than us overall. It also shows that we did not play deep generally and the game was battled in the middle of the park.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1080576/Live
So I rewatched the game because I was unable to pay attention the first time around.. all this parking the bus bullshit has been deeply unfair on United imo.
First 20 minutes, we pressed high up the pitch and at one stage the statistics stated that only 3% of the action occurred in our half, which means 97% of the game was not in our half.. so to say we parked the bus from the off is utter bullshit.
We pressed them high and we kept nicking the ball of them, Klopp was basically getting gengenpressed in his own half and his team were unable to play it out. What let us down here was dynamism up front with the ball and general decision making, Zlatan was sloppy and not threatening in possession and Pogba was struggling to make the right passes and generate momentum with our play in the final third.. even so we looked dangerous and the dominant team.
After that sustained period of pressure, United then sat back to get their breath and we basically nullified Liverpool for remainder of that half. They looked clueless for the rest of the half with the ball and we looked extremely comfortable.
Start of second half, once again we pressed high up the pitch for the first 15-20 minutes and looked the better side.. that Zlatan chance went amiss, but in general we looked the more proactive and in control team tactically. Sturridge then went off and the game began to change... we were then pretty much on the back foot from 65-90 minutes. We weren't in control for the last phase of that match and De Gea kept us in it to be honest.
We weren't preventing them from creating chances and we were losing the ball alot. Lots of careless passing out from the back and this meant our counter-attacking strategy fell to pieces. There was zero hold up play from Pogba and Zlatan, no wall passes.. which prevented others from coming up and forming a cohesive attack.. it was lose possession, Herrera or Bailly pull of brilliant tackle, and then the team gives it away again.
Overall Mourinho will be very happy with that game but disappointed with the quality and precision of our attack.. it was sloppy up top and not laser like which it needs to be for this away game tactic to work, and he will be unhappy with how we gave away the ball too often in the last phase of the match where it is imperative to keep your head and play through the lines - knowing that home team is under pressure to 'attack, attack, attack' and very vulnerable on the counter.
In the future, I would like to see Martial replace Ibra up top towards the last phase of the game where we need mobility and Pogba either get subbed or come into midfield two, and Mkhi go into 10 near the end of games where we are not in a winning positon. Putting pace up top in a 0-0 with 15-20 minutes to go could really help us nick it towards the end of games.
First 20 minutes, we pressed high up the pitch and at one stage the statistics stated that only 3% of the action occurred in our half, which means 97% of the game was not in our half.. so to say we parked the bus from the off is utter bullshit.
We pressed them high and we kept nicking the ball of them, Klopp was basically getting gengenpressed in his own half and his team were unable to play it out. What let us down here was dynamism up front with the ball and general decision making, Zlatan was sloppy and not threatening in possession and Pogba was struggling to make the right passes and generate momentum with our play in the final third.. even so we looked dangerous and the dominant team.
After that sustained period of pressure, United then sat back to get their breath and we basically nullified Liverpool for remainder of that half. They looked clueless for the rest of the half with the ball and we looked extremely comfortable.
Start of second half, once again we pressed high up the pitch for the first 15-20 minutes and looked the better side.. that Zlatan chance went amiss, but in general we looked the more proactive and in control team tactically. Sturridge then went off and the game began to change... we were then pretty much on the back foot from 65-90 minutes. We weren't in control for the last phase of that match and De Gea kept us in it to be honest.
We weren't preventing them from creating chances and we were losing the ball alot. Lots of careless passing out from the back and this meant our counter-attacking strategy fell to pieces. There was zero hold up play from Pogba and Zlatan, no wall passes.. which prevented others from coming up and forming a cohesive attack.. it was lose possession, Herrera or Bailly pull of brilliant tackle, and then the team gives it away again.
Overall Mourinho will be very happy with that game but disappointed with the quality and precision of our attack.. it was sloppy up top and not laser like which it needs to be for this away game tactic to work, and he will be unhappy with how we gave away the ball too often in the last phase of the match where it is imperative to keep your head and play through the lines - knowing that home team is under pressure to 'attack, attack, attack' and very vulnerable on the counter.
In the future, I would like to see Martial replace Ibra up top towards the last phase of the game where we need mobility and Pogba either get subbed or come into midfield two, and Mkhi go into 10 near the end of games where we are not in a winning positon. Putting pace up top in a 0-0 with 15-20 minutes to go could really help us nick it towards the end of games.
Is that heatmap based on touches or on overall positioning? I think it must be the former, because otherwise no MUFC player would have ever been left of their own box. In that case it doesn't tell much about where the teams actually defended.
It shows where they attacked though, and Liverpool got the ball higher up towards the opposition box, which was my impression of the game as well.
But both teams were quite woeful in the final third (and even deeper in midfield), lots of turnovers and imprecise plays. According to this site, Liverpool's pass completion was at 81% and United's at 76%. That's one misplaced pass for every three completed passes for United, which is horribly bad.
The offensive part was the main problem for both sides in my eyes, not where they defended.
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Yeah they're massively overrated so far this season. Hilariously so, actually.
It based on possession frequency. Where the map is green the ball was not held in that position frequently, yellow more frequently and red frequently, in relative terms of course.
Yes, players do tend to flow to the back to defend and to the front to support an attack, if they are worthy. They aren't attached to a rod and only move sideways like a foosball table.
I'm sure we could find a couple screen shots with only DDG in the picture also.Well said.
Yes, players do tend to flow to the back to defend and to the front to support an attack, if they are worthy. They aren't attached to a rod and only move sideways like a foosball table.
Parking the bus!!!
Mourinho on Liverpool
“We didn’t get the result we wanted. We anted to win and we only got a point so we were not 100% successful and I think you are very fair with Liverpool because Liverpool had a fantastic defensive performance.
“For the first time they played with two defensive midfielders and took a striker off to play another midfielder. The 0-0 result was because two teams were very good defensively.”
[Copied and pasted from the Fenebache match thread] Honestly guys, I'm only going to say this once on here for posterity. I'm well aware of his mind games to rile the opposition while gee up his own players at the same time. However, surely you can see over the last couple of years he's gone loopy and if you're not yet seeing the Hodgson-esque/LvGesque behaviour in his comments then you're falling faster and harder than us Liverpool fans did in the early nineties in the hope of finding the next saviour. Light speed faster.
“We didn’t get the result we wanted. We anted to win and we only got a point so we were not 100% successful and I think you are very fair with Liverpool because Liverpool had a fantastic defensive performance.
“For the first time they played with two defensive midfielders and took a striker off to play another midfielder. The 0-0 result was because two teams were very good defensively.”
[Copied and pasted from the Fenebache match thread] Honestly guys, I'm only going to say this once on here for posterity. I'm well aware of his mind games to rile the opposition while gee up his own players at the same time. However, surely you can see over the last couple of years he's gone loopy and if you're not yet seeing the Hodgson-esque/LvGesque behaviour in his comments then you're falling faster and harder than us Liverpool fans did in the early nineties in the hope of finding the next saviour. Light speed faster.