Jose : "They are not the last wonder of the world like you say they are"

ghagua said:
World class saves that most other keepers would not have made. Liverpool broke through plenty of times and only last ditch tackles prevented them from scoring. Remember that Valencia tackle?
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Isn't that the point of a goalkeeper, isn't that the point of defenders?

We get on top of strikers who don't score, or midfielders who don't pass or create. But when defenders defend, and goalkeepers make saves - suddenly it's bad :confused:

That's what they're there to do. They did their job, we kept a clean sheet and got a point.
 
Theonas said:
Is there any concrete evidence of that other than the standard optimism that comes at the start of every year? Our league position is not better, our record against the top clubs isn't, and our performances are certainly not more exciting by any stretch. How do you qualify that statement then?
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We actually have shots on target at home in the first half. Last 2 home games scored 4 in one and the other their GK got MOTM. We're not back to our best but there is clearly progress
 
ghagua said:
World class saves that most other keepers would not have made. Liverpool broke through plenty of times and only last ditch tackles prevented them from scoring. Remember that Valencia tackle?
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They did better in the second half. The save from Can was the first thing DDG had to do all game.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
People keep saying that and I have no idea why! In what world is that header a sitter? It's not directly in front of goal; it's coming in with a lot of pace, and even if he does direct it right the angle the keeper has favours him unless it loops over the keeper, which is itself not a basic technique.
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Well i meant my comment more in general than that specific chance. It's always 'well if this didn't happen' or 'if that didn't happen'. If a million and one different things happen the result might be different, but they didn't and it wasn't.
 
ghagua said:
World class saves that most other keepers would not have made. Liverpool broke through plenty of times and only last ditch tackles prevented them from scoring. Remember that Valencia tackle?
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There is no such thing as a last ditch tackle. It's called a tackle.
How could a player have broken through if he is then tackled? Sounds like great defending to me.
 
Dobbs said:
I don't think there's concrete evidence but I think the optimism is based on something more than just a fresh start. We do have a better bunch of players now and some of them young enough to improve. Then there's the manager.

I just can't wait for us to get all our best players on the pitch, in form, at the same time. I don't feel like we've got going yet.
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Say this quite often, we can improve. We've got Martial/Mkhi and Shaw to come back into the side and hopefully back to top form. Then we'll see the progress everyone is dying to see.

Liverpool have pretty much already hit their peak, it won't get any better for them than they've been so far, which has been very good to be fair. For them it's about consistency now.
 
cyberman said:
There is no such thing as a last ditch tackle. It's called a tackle.
How could a player have broken through if he is then tackled? Sounds like great defending to me.
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Eh?

Firmino was behind the last line of defence. Coutinho's flick had breached the defensive line. It led to Valencia making a great tackle from behind to salvage the situation. It was last ditch as opposed to just being a regulation tackle on the wing or in front of the defence.
 
The Purist said:
This thread is absolutely bizarre.

- How can United fans possibly be surprised that Liverpool have been overrated by the media? Any time the scousers get a sniff of a good team, the media praise them to the high heavens. (And the same applies for United, sorry.)

- Why is Mourinho a tactical genius for being in 7th place and drawing a fixture that Van Gaal, who is looked upon with contempt, won? (twice, maybe?)

- It bares repeating that any team in the top 8 should beat the Arsenal team that Liverpool faced. Chambers and Holding at CB, no Özil, Santi unfit to start.

- I think Mourinho knows that it is a good point in the top four race. He needs to finish in the top four in order to put United in good stead for next year. I don't think he'd get sacked, though, if he didn't - given that he strangely seems to have acquired the status of a demigod amongst some sections of the support. Still, I don't think he's the right fit at United. His defensive approach is acceptable at a small club like Chelsea - but I can't see the older generation of United fans accepting him as anything more than a manager to steady the ship for a couple of years at most.
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Chelsea are a small club? Don't they have a bigger worldwide fan base than Arsenal these days?
 
Attila said:
Chelsea are a small club? Don't they have a bigger worldwide fan base than Arsenal these days?
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I believe so, they certainly sell more shirts than Arsenal globally & that's a pretty good indication to begin with.
 
PickledRed said:
Eh?

Firmino was behind the last line of defence. Coutinho's flick had breached the defensive line. It led to Valencia making a great tackle from behind to salvage the situation. It was last ditch as opposed to just being a regulation tackle on the wing or in front of the defence.
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It's great defending due to Valenica's main attribute being pace.
It's a genuine tactic, having defenders with pace allows a slightly higher defensive line because they can recover so quickly.
Anyway both were stretching for the ball. It's not really a great chance if Firminho is struggling to get to it as well.
 
Theonas said:
Moyes is a non starter. Under LvG, I liked that we barely ever sat deep and invited pressure even against the likes of City but hated that in the final third, we were horribly impotent and toothless. Under Mourinho, we don't do the former and we still suffer from the latter with the exception of Leicester and Stoke at home.
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We would have been wiped off the pitch against City under Pep this season if LvG had still bern in charge. Also, with Pool's pressing yesterday there is no way we would have survived with LvG. All in all, we are playing better football, and have a certain plan for each game. Once we gel properly, we will look a real threat imo.
 
cyberman said:
It's great defending due to Valenica's main attribute being pace.
It's a genuine tactic, having defenders with pace allows a slightly higher defensive line because they can recover so quickly.
Anyway both were stretching for the ball. It's not really a great chance if Firminho is struggling to get to it as well.
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Great individual defending maybe, but to claim that this is some sort of great defensive team strategy, to allow successful through ball only that your quick RB can make a last ditch tackle :lol:
 
Cristiano Lell said:
Great individual defending maybe, but to claim that this is some sort of great defensive team strategy, to allow successful through ball only that your quick RB can make a last ditch tackle :lol:
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Having quick players allows us to play a higher line the same way a slower backline forces teams to play a lot deeper.
I never said allowing through balls is a strategy?
 
vi1lain said:
Isn't that the point of a goalkeeper, isn't that the point of defenders?

We get on top of strikers who don't score, or midfielders who don't pass or create. But when defenders defend, and goalkeepers make saves - suddenly it's bad :confused:

That's what they're there to do. They did their job, we kept a clean sheet and got a point.
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Read my original post, the other persons reply and then my response again. Shock, horror, I called De Gea's saves a bad thing.
 
Amusing to see German posters periodically popping in to defend their boy Kloppy because he was out thought tactically.

Klopp's great tactical gamble was to target Rooney late on by bringing on Moreno and Origi but failed miserably as both were worse than Milner who was causing Rooney problems.
 
cyberman said:
Having quick players allows us to play a higher line the same way a slower backline forces teams to play a lot deeper.
I never said allowing through balls is a strategy?
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But United played a deep line. Can't call it high.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
Great individual defending maybe, but to claim that this is some sort of great defensive team strategy, to allow successful through ball only that your quick RB can make a last ditch tackle :lol:
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There's always a massive risk when you play a really high line. But we've usually got 4 of the quickest players in the league in our defense (when Shaw's playing), so I think it's a relatively safe gamble.
 
ghagua said:
When did I say it was a shock? I just said that when they bothered to attack, they looked like they could break through the United defense.
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Bothered to attack? :wenger:

They spent the entire match trying to attack, we just beat them to every second ball, nullified their press game, beat them aerially & stayed compact as a defensive unit. Mane, Clyne & Sturridge particularly were quiet.

As a result they managed to squeeze a handful of opportunities, one of which was a long range effort.

It's not as if we were lucky not to concede and Liverpool had us on the ropes, their whole team, manager & fans was frustrated because we contained them so well and didn't allow them to play their brand of football.

ghagua said:
Read my original post, the other persons reply and then my response again. Shock, horror, I called De Gea's saves a bad thing.
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Still doesn't explain why it's a bad thing that defenders were able to defend, and likewise goalkeepers kept a clean sheet. Isn't that the aim?
You can't expect to have a game where the opposition won't create chances. If we were to play Northampton on the weekend, they would still create at least one chance against us.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Check the heat map. It was actually Liverpool that spent more time sat deep because of Mou's tactics. The result was achieved in midfield not defence by United.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1080576/Live
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And there's the evidence to back it up, but it was obvious to the naked eye we were defending higher up the pitch than them. It's one of the reasons their press failed, they didn't shorten the pitch as much as they needed to.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Its Pogba's poor second half that killed everything. He was supposed to provide ball and support for Rashford, Young and Zlatan but simply couldn't do things right most times. Sadly the on time he did Zlatan missed a sitter....
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Good to see you posting again...
Dumbstar said:
If it's form you're talking about you lot were dead lucky Couts, Firmy and Mane couldn't pass the ball for shit in the first half. See this is an easy game.

You lot needed the points. Notice the plural. I was punching the air when the ref blew the full time whistle that you gained no ground on us whereas we lost none to the league leaders.

Good luck against Chelsea. Hazards got a point to prove I believe.
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You too, still as bad at it as ever though ;)
 
Do I need to watch 2nd half again? I honestly can't remember doing much.
 
FCBarca said:
Only caught the first half but what I saw was pretty much what I expected under Mou for United, surprised many are pleased with the performance rather than desperate for something memorable to get behind
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FCBarca said:
Liverpool were better than United last night, IMHO, but didn't ultimately do enough to earn 3pts. I think both teams, fans & coaches should be disappointed with the match even if they are content with sharing the points. From a sporting perspective, it was of a poor level - worse considering the Monday night showcase it had to show the qualities of both enormous clubs
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You only saw 1st half yet thought Liverpool did better?
 
redman5 said:
Was Jose referring to the press or some United fans on here with his comments ? We were going to thrash you 4 or 5 nil according to some doom & gloom merchants on the Caf.

Me personally I'm quite satisfied with a point. Worse teams than United will take something off us at Anfield this season. I wouldn't put too much money on us beating West Brom on Saturday.
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I like the idea of Jose reading this board. Very comforting.
 
ghagua said:
Absolutely, but then Karius could have slept through that game
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That was the one thing that genuinely annoyed me about the performance actually. We didn't put him under nearly enough pressure and God knows he looks like someone liable to crumble under it.

A few more speculative efforts on goal wouldn't have gone amiss.
 
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